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No, it also functions when stock is folded.
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Mossberg Double Stack Mags DO NOT Fit The Saiga 12 ...
gunfun replied to HB of CJ's topic in Saiga-12
So, don't think modifying a ready made receiver, particularly one which was originally designed for box fed would be within the scope of the patent in the above post. -
Mossberg Double Stack Mags DO NOT Fit The Saiga 12 ...
gunfun replied to HB of CJ's topic in Saiga-12
https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/61/2a/e6/6529e1d1db24b3/US8756846.pdf I looked through this patent, which admittedly I didn't fully parse out. As near as I can tell by casual reading, it's only real claim is having a conversion receiver, not modifying an existing receiver. It's scope is for conventional shotguns, and it very broadly names every normal feature of any firearm, right down to firing pins and feed ramps. Those are clearly extraneous to the claim. Given that box fed factory pump guns have come from both Italy and China in factory configurations some of which I think go back to the 1970s, that otherwise exactly meet the description, it can't be an enforceable claim that making a new gun which takes box mags and is otherwise a conventional tube based shotty. - Yesterday
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You need to learn about ammo. If you googled around this forum, you probably saw a lot of very similar posts, which usually included someone like me posting this: BOTH: Find the minimum ammo your gun will run. buy stuff with that rating or larger. Notice how SHOT SIZE is not on the list? That's because it doesn't matter at all. You care about weight x velocity. If you refuse to learn that simple lesson, you doom yourself to a life of frustration with every semi automatic shotgun. It is easy. Learn the lowest combination of numbers that each gun likes, and buy stuff that is equal or greater. Saiga: I would put back in your factory springs, and if you haven't look into polishing your rails a little, and more importantly verifying that the profile of your hammer face is right. Shape. Not polish. 4 ports is fine, if they are big enough. IIRC, you should get reliable function somewhere between 4@ 0.082" and 4@ 0.093" going way bigger lets more crud in. I prefer 5 small ports, but 4@ 0.087" worked for me on one, IIRC, but if one of my older posts says something different, I typed it when the memory was fresher. Each gun is a balance of gas power vs friction and springs. Put the mechanical bits back to factory, sort out the hammer face, and all that before you change anything with the ports. Low brass kits are mostly hoaxy. i.e. they can make a tiny amount of difference by compromising important things. If your gun needs more than a tiny amount of difference, they wasted your money. Better to fix the simple things like I said. Then your gun isn't a barely running compromise. MKA: My memory is pretty rusty, so if people correct this who are more into MKA's listen to them. Firebird and tooth and nail offer kits for dealing with the MKA 1919. They have plenty of threads on the issue. It is easier to find them if you google this forum than if you use the internal search feature. IIRC there was an improved drive block, and a spring shim, or something along those lines. A lot of people only needed the shim until the mainspring broke in, and the burrs were polished off of the moving bits. MKAs have a couple parts that are prone to fracture. Most of the companies that make stuff for them offer replacements for the drive block or whatever it is called, which resolves the key weakness. You really don't want to feed them 3" loads very much. Basically, they want ammo right in the middle of the power spectrum.
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Mossberg Double Stack Mags DO NOT Fit The Saiga 12 ...
gunfun replied to HB of CJ's topic in Saiga-12
Looking at that patent, it is for having the mag in two pieces to cheapen manufacture and make it easy to manufacture modular feed towers for different guns. Kinda surprised that was granted as non-obvious. Several guns out there have had modular magwells, and I know the maxrounds drum came with mix & match feed towers, so that's a prior art. It would be infringing to make that magazine, but I don't see how it would infringe to USE the magazine in another gun. i.e. buy a mossberg mag and fit a gun to it. Or alter mossberg mags, and obliterate the logos. That would be under first sale doctrine and whatnot. Obliterating the logos would prevent some BS brand dilution claim. If the gun is modified to take the mag, and that doesn't require any unique features covered by a new patent, then that's not a violation. I would say that any patent claiming features like having the ability to engage locking lugs with a latch or two are going to be weak. -
Mossberg Double Stack Mags DO NOT Fit The Saiga 12 ...
gunfun replied to HB of CJ's topic in Saiga-12
Thanks for the reply, Mike. -
5 ports is good, but diameter could be an issue. Does the version you have come with the feature that disables the gun if the stock is folded? I am wondering if that could be introducing friction to the system.
- Last week
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Yes, the larger puck is already installed in my Saiga ...... I will test it on next wednesday ...hope it will function well . Material Nr. from the aftermarket puck e.g. from CSS seems to be Nr. 1.4542 ....
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If your friend's puck is the same design, try it in your weapon before you make another one. If it makes a positive difference, make one like it. Aftermarket pucks here in the US are usually made from stainless.
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It is a fixed gasblock, no adjustment possible. I will try to get a matching aftermarket puck in Germany .....but this could be a problem I will also look to the mag ... Thanks
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Norinco and polytech
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Also, there are several other after-market pucks available, you don't need to reinvent the wheel. Does your shotgun have the adjustable gas plug in front or the fixed gas block with the integral front sight?
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Cool. Who would have thought that the Chinese would produce a knockoff that is better than the original
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doesn't sound like a puck issue sound more like bolt or mag issue or gas plug but not the puck
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MDARMS X CSSPECS steel dbl stack mag alive or dead?
sure2survive replied to Azkamidaka's topic in Saiga-12
would love to see Mike do a double stack that runs as good as his drums! -
So I love the Saiga 12 I personally converted dozens for my gun store several years ago. Never had a return or feeding problem. Recently I acquired a Lynx 12 and I am thrilled they already have 90 percent of the work already done that the Saiga 12 did not! The Lynx 12 is better quality than the Saiga 12 for sure. That being said it still could use a few mods. Today I started with the Bolt Carrier and Bolt. The Chrome bolt Carrier had many rough edges so I used a Diamond hone to smooth up every edge. Then I did a little grinding on the bolt to allow the Gun to be loaded more easily on a closed bolt and to reduce friction as it passes over the next round. pics below. I have about 300 rounds through the gun before performing these mods as i wanted to do true out of the box testing vs fine tuning. I will give a range report after next shoot. J
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Thanks for you answer. There are 5 gas ports and they are continous. There was no improvement when I shot for a longer time. Compared to the other Saiga 12 police i discovered that at my Saiga much more gas/dirt went past the piston. At first I will manufacture a puck from mild steel. I seems the origninal Saiga-puck is also from similar material.
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You could make one out of whatever you wanted, but you are probably going to need to keep the weight and dimensions of the puck very close to the weight of the original piece. I would make it the same weight and diameter as your friends gas puck. You would think over time, if the gas puck diameter was the issue, that when the gas block got really dirty, that your S12 would begin to cycle better as the carbon build up filled in the gaps. Have you checked your gas ports? Have you checked to see if your gas ports are obstructed?
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MDARMS X CSSPECS steel dbl stack mag alive or dead?
csspecs replied to Azkamidaka's topic in Saiga-12
You might want to get cracking on that. Since you first teased the idea you lost four states to sell to.. With 8 of 50 states not able to benefit from the magazines anymore.. We are on pace to have that number go up to 12-14 in the next year or so unless the SCOTUS steps in on the gun bans. The viability of the product greatly depends on people being allowed to own it. -
Anyone else into VW TDI's?
TacSat replied to Mullet Man's topic in General Discussion - Any topic is welcome here!!!
Miss my 96 passat . 55mpg 18gal tank. till mech dropped bolt in trany hole because he didnt replace plug. but of course he didnt do it. -
So who here, from the old days...
TacSat replied to Azrial's topic in General Discussion - Any topic is welcome here!!!
Check in form time to time. miss the daily chater -
Hi, I am from from Germany and since 1 year owner or a Saiga 12 Police shotgun. From the beginning there are problems with ejecting the shells. I tried some methods to solve the problems (other recoilsprings, polishing bolt, other ammunition .......) problems remained. Now I measured the gas puck and the boring on my Saiga. There was a clearance of 0,23 mm. Another Saiga Police which i compared had only a clearance of 0,05 mm. Could this large clearance be a reason for the ejecting problems ? From which material is the origianal puck ? It is magnetic. Does it make sens to manufakture a puck from Titan oder stainless-steel ? Best regards for your help Reinhold
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I have 2 of the Lynx. One the bolt carrier is hard to get back in and the other it goes in no problem. The rear trunnion is just a touch narrow and the rivets are being over crushed making some of the guns harder to get the bolt carrier in. I pointed this out to them and supposedly they are addressing it.
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