poolingmyignorance
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Posts posted by poolingmyignorance
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you need to make it out of AR400 or AR500. I made one out of AR400 3/8" and didn't even dent it with my .308
at how many yards?
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Okay so after many questions about my steel target, and compliments. (Thank you all) I made it out to shoot them yesterday. I however forgot the damn video camra so was forced to use my cell phone. I do have good pics and took care to keep track of caliber of round vs yards.
First up was 9mm fmj at 15 yrds. Follwed by 7 yards.
Second was 40cal at 15, then 7 yards.
Next was 7.62x39 at 50 yrds. Then at 150 yrds.
The pics speak for them selves.
End result. for hang guns only.
I'll be making some heavier ones for rifles later. And would love yalls input and suggestions. Thanks to everybody. http://s1195.photobucket.com/albums/aa382/poolingmyignorance/
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Had to make this a multi post cause of file size.
Still bored, I decied it needed somethign from the lathe. So I found an old peice of ss pipe and shafting. Bored out the id of the pipe to make a smooth pocket for my mounting side to press into. Then the shaft piece machied to fit. Layed out some holes in the pattern I liked, chucked it up in the super spaced and made some shavings. Once finnished I test fit on the barrel looked good but was missing something. ANODIZING! So I found a procedure for that and got to work with torch.
Also for those of you interested in the exact weld procedure I posted it in reply to this guys work. http://forum.saiga-1...harging-handle/ see post #22.
Once gallery gets working again, I'll post a link to the finished gun. The files are too big for this.
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I started with a s 410.
Added conversion parts.
tapco double hook FCG
Tapco folding stock and Gali hand guard.
tapco saw pistol grip.
For the hand guard retainer, to compensate for the natural taper of the barrel, I put the retainer in the vise on the drill press and champhered it to seat more securely.
And had to mill out a small indictaion to clear the cross bolt.
Pleased but unsatisfed with it's feel while the stock was folded i decied an vertical charging handle would be best. So i got to work milling a piece of 304ss and added a stainless ball bearing for effect.
Once completely milled I gave the handle a quick polish to adress the areas I knew would be hard to reach once welded inplace. On the end for the ball bearing i cut a small "v" for it to rest in. And beveled the other end for a better weld.
on the carrier side. I used a portaband to saw off the old handle cleaned off the flash and all remaining paint to ensure a good weld. When fitting the new handle I moved it slightly off center toward the but of the gun, so that a good tapering weld could be achived for a factory look. ( the bevele on the handle side allowed me to get a good weld on the short side. A little bit of work with a die grinder, some jewlers files and a buffing wheel and you get this:
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There is ONE THING I saw nobody mentioned here. I suspect what cause this failure was the rapid cooling of the braze under water, cause the steel to become brittle. I have done my own charging handle and used tig to weld them. The procedure I used is as follows:
Charging handle material: 304ss
Tig rod : 1/8 309ss
No preheating required unless ambient tempature is under 60 f
(though this is debateble as some say the carrier on the s12 is chrome/molly which should be preheated, and heat treated after welding)
I personaly don't prefer to heat treat machined parts unless absoultely nessesary as they tend to warp.
I DO recomend slow cooling your welded product by means of wrapping in insulation and letting cool to ambient tempature.
I did not do a Left side handle I did a right upswept but reguardless of that you would be better to countersing a slight indentaion and bevel your handle piece to get a better penetrating weld.
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The officers are being charged criminaly. Which if accounts are accurate they are indeed criminals. So yea it's fucked up, but this seems like one case where things whent bad but it was recognized as bad. Although its hard to answer"who do you call when it's the police assulting you?"
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Whoever says they're cheesy has never fired one or doesn't have the brains to convert one. I love my Saiga shotties and will have no second thoughts buying a rifle.
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Polishing and couturing the bolt, and carrier are not just mods to help loading. They dramaticly slick up the action of the gun, increasing it's ability to run light loads. Plus by polishing the bolt, you don't risk runining your drum. Just something to consider.
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I had the card protection work in reverse on me. Before a trip to Brazil I activated my card for international use at a local branch of my bank. Well after about two weeks of using it somehow corperate got involved and saw the forgein charges and deactivated my card WITHOUT NOTIFYING ME! At a little road side resturant outside of Macae, after dinning big and fat on steak and beer, my card doesn't just get declined, but shows as STOLEN. Well the owner of the resturant wasn't too happy, but luckily I got through on the 800# and got my card reactived and meal paid for (with a fat tip) just as the Militar Police arrived. A quick check of my pass port and visa I was back on the road, but for a minute I was on verge of shitting my pants.
Clarify that please, that was your Bank's doing or a well known/regarded independent 'ID/Credit Protection' company, e.g. Lifelock.
I can see a Bank doing dumb shit stuff antics like that, hell that could even be dangerous.
It was my bank, not my credit card company. Since this incident I switch to Amex for travel, much safer and easier to work with.
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I'm going to use Duracoat (Combat Black) on my S12 reciever. I want to possibly do the barrel as well while I'm at it, but I'm unsure if the Barrel temps would get too high. Duracoat is good to temps as high as 600 degrees (Duraheat extends that to 1800).
Dos anyone have any real idea of how hot these barrels get under heavier sustained fire (like maybe as much as 4x 10rd mags fired as quickly as possible back to back)? I seriously doubt I'd be firing it that hard, but it might happen...
I would say the duracoat is fine, but If the duraheat is the same price go with it, and be safe.
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Great info! Do you have source information ? I like spreading the truth , but those on the fence usually want source information to make the step to our way of thinking.
I'll have to pull them all, it was a list complied orginaly by a coworker of mine. But I did find this quote I thought was interesting:
[The most foolish mistake we could possibly make would be to permit the
conquered Eastern peoples to have arms. History teaches that all conquerors who
have allowed their subject races to carry arms have prepared their own downfall
by doing so.]
--- Adolf Hitler (1889-1945), April 11, 1942, quoted
in Hitlers Tischegesprache Im Fuhrerhauptquartier 1941-1942.
[Hitler's
Table-Talk at the Fuhrer's Headquarters 1941-1942], Dr. Henry Picker, ed.
(Athenaum-Verlag, Bonn, 1951)
Also I'd like to add that it's not too much work to check dates and see they line up. It's offten debated that these laws didn't change anything because of previous restrictions. But it's hard to ignore the time lines.
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Great info! Do you have source information ? I like spreading the truth , but those on the fence usually want source information to make the step to our way of thinking.
I'll have to pull them all, it was a list complied orginaly by a coworker of mine. But I did find this quote I thought was interesting:
[The most foolish mistake we could possibly make would be to permit the
conquered Eastern peoples to have arms. History teaches that all conquerors who
have allowed their subject races to carry arms have prepared their own downfall
by doing so.]
--- Adolf Hitler (1889-1945), April 11, 1942, quoted
in Hitlers Tischegesprache Im Fuhrerhauptquartier 1941-1942.
[Hitler's
Table-Talk at the Fuhrer's Headquarters 1941-1942], Dr. Henry Picker, ed.
(Athenaum-Verlag, Bonn, 1951)
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I'd be walking around the house saying "thats not a knife, THIS is a knife"
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Those who would give up Essential
Liberty
to
purchase a little Temporary
Safety,
deserve
neither Liberty nor
Safety.
~ Benjamen Franklin.
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Gun History
After reading the following historical facts,
read the part about Switzerland, twice.
In 1929, the Soviet Uunion established gun control. From 1929
to1953, about 20,000,000 dissidents, unable to defend
themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
------------------------------
In 1911, Turkey established gun control. From 1915 to 1917,
1.5 million Armenians, unable to defend themselves, were
rounded up and exterminated.
------------------------------
Germany established gun control in 1938 and from 1939 to
1945, a total of 13 million Jews and others who were unable to
defend themselves were rounded up and exterminated.
------------------------------
China established gun control in 1935. From 1948 to
1952, 20 million political dissidents, unable to defend themselves,
were rounded up and exterminated
------------------------------
Guatemala established gun control in 1964. From 1964 to
1981, 100,000 Mayan Indians, unable to defend themselves, were
rounded up and exterminated.
------------------------------
Uganda established gun control in 1970. From 1971 to
1979, 300,000 Christians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded
up and exterminated
------------------------------
Cambodia established gun control in 1956. From 1975 to 1977,
one million educated people, unable to defend themselves,
were rounded up and exterminated.
------------------------------
Defenseless people rounded up and exterminated in the
20th Century because of gun control: 56,000,000!!!
------------------------------
It has now been 16 months since gun owners in Australia were
forced by new law to surrender 640,381 personal firearms
to be destroyed by their own Government, a program costing
Australia taxpayers more than $500 million dollars. The first
year statistics are now in: Australia-wide: Homicides are up 3.2
percent. Australia-wide: Assaults are up 8.6 percent.
Australia-wide: Armed robberies are up 44 percent..
Victoria-wide: Homicides with firearms are now up 300 percent.
(Note that while the law-abiding citizens turned them in, the criminals
did not, so criminals still possess their guns!) While figures over the
previous 25 years showed a steady decrease in armed robbery with
firearms, this has changed drastically upward in the past 12 months,
since criminals now are guaranteed that their prey are unarmed.
There has also been a dramatic increase in break-ins and assaults
of the ELDERLY. Australian politicians are at a loss to explain
how public safety has decreased, after such monumental
effort, and expense was expended in successfully ridding
Australian society of guns. The Australian experience and
the other historical facts above prove it.
You won't see this data on the U.S. evening news, or
hear politicians disseminating this information.
Guns in the hands of honest citizens save lives and property and,
yes, gun-control laws adversely affect only the law-abiding citizens..
Take note my fellow Americans, before it's too late!
The next time someone talks in favor of gun control, please remind
them of this history lesson.With guns, we are 'citizens.'
Without them, we are 'subjects'.
During WWII the Japanese decided not to invade America
because they knew most Americans were ARMED!
If you value your freedom, please spread this anti-gun control message
to all of your friends and relatives.
The purpose of fighting is to win. There is no possible victory
in defense. The sword is more important than the shield,
and skill is more important than either. No weapon can be properly
used or wielded without the brain.
----------------------------------------------------------
SWITZERLAND ISSUES EVERY HOUSEHOLD A GUN!
SWITZERLAND'S GOVERNMENT TRAINS EVERY ADULT TO WHOM
THEY ISSUE A RIFLE. SWITZERLAND HAS THE LOWEST
GUN-RELATED CRIME RATE OF ANY CIVILIZED COUNTRY
IN THE WORLD!!! IT'S A NO BRAINER, FOLKS!! DON'T
LET OUR GOVERNMENT WASTE MILLIONS OF OUR TAX DOLLARS
IN AN EFFORT TO MAKE ALL LAW ABIDING CITIZENS AN EASY TARGET
OR WORSE, A CHALK OUTLINE.
I'm a firm believer of the 2nd Amendment!
If you are too, please forward this note.
Just consider how powerful our government is getting!
OUR GOVERNMENT THINKS THESE OTHER COUNTRIES
SIMPLY DIDN'T DO IT RIGHT. WELL, LEARN A LESSON
FROM HISTORY!!
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I belive the reason for the extra 1/2" of barrel length was because OAL is often measured with a tape measure, and that little steel endpiece on the tape is often rivited on very loosely. This makes the tapemeasure innacurate and results in meaurements on the short side of the actual length, sometimes by 1/4" or more.
there is a reason for this. It's so you can press the tape up against something or hook it to achive the same messurement. If you notice on any proper tape the "slop" will equal the thickness of the metal end piece. I myself prefer to burn 10".
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Your gun is pretty badass, maybe buy a new one to SBS and start over from scratch. One man's opinion.
Agreed!
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BEFORE YOU MAKE ONE STEP TOWARDS CONVERTING: shoot it first! Make sure it's running right, don't waste money on something that could (albiet slim chance) need service/warranty. Better safe than sorry.But yea use google to search the forum ( the site's internal search is less than desired) do the reading before you do the leg work. Really, if you can change your breaks you can convert a siaga. GO FOR IT. Everybody here will help. ENJOY. and expect to buy more, they're addictive.
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So I finally bought my first Saiga 12 shotgun. I've been wanting one FOREVER but passed on them when they are in every gun store for around $400...lol. It shipped today and I'm looking forward to getting my hands on it.
My question is, once it get here what should I be doing to it and looking for right out of the box? I want to make sure I got a good gun and not a "Vodka Special' like I've been reading about. *gulp* I'm a longtime gun owner, ex-police and ex-military so I plan on doing my usual "new gun" inspection and check it over top to bottom, inside and out.
Sincerely,
A SA-12 Newbie
You can always use the search function to look up "Vodka Special" which there are several threads that include really good pics. But what your looking for is when you remove the gas plug, and the puck there should be several small holes in a recessed portion of the gas block meeting the barrel. Use a pen light to look for the holes. There should be 3-4 of them. If you can't see them try using a paper clip to feel around for them ( you can look inside the barrel(be sure it's unloaded first) and see the paper clip potruding. If you've got those 3-4 holes completely unobstructed you don't have a vodka special.
Get some federal bulk and see if it'll cycle. If not, try wearing it in with some high brass,and hand clycling the hell out of it. IF that doesn't help you might consider a bolt/carrier polish. Enjoy!
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They're having a cycle built on American Chopper: Senior versus Jumior. Cool finally seeing Will in the flesh!
Check out Sons of Guns on your "on demand" section.
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Saigachusa! Where did you get that cool ass muzzle break?!
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WRONG! If the weapon is truly functioning properly, you could fire it and it would function no matter how you hold/not hold the weapon. It is not blow-back operated, it is gas operated.
I've experimented with the way I hold mine since I opened up the ports. It doesn't matter, IF the weapon is functioning properly. If you have to shoulder the weapon hard or put the butt-stock up against a tree, your gun is NOT functioning properly (Mike D, this wasn't aimed at you, we know that you were doing that to test the strength of the front feed-lip of your drum). There is a big difference between functioning and functioning properly...
I will say though, that I shoulder the weapon hard to try to be nice to my shoulder, but it doesn't affect my shotgun's performance one bit.
Hey, let's get this straight. I put it against the tree because I'm a big puss.
No, I put it against the tree to reduce the forces on the front mag catch. All of those videos of me firing off of a tree was with prototype mags of greatly reduced strength compared to production mags. I did it to keep them from coming apart and breaking, even then it didn't prevent it all the time.The rest of this isn't pointed at you either but just some answers on the question.
Weight does matter. First, how a gun is held will affect the function of the gun regardless if it is gas operated. In theory if the gun was able to recoil at the same speed of the bolt carrier all of the energy of the gas would be for nothing. The bolt carrier wouldn't even move rearward from it's position because the rearward moving gun would move with it at the same speed. This is in theory and the saiga-12 doesn't kick that hard even if it was floating in air completely unsupported. I know we say a loosely held gun causes energy loss but really that is a bad way to state it. There is energy loss of cycling potential but all the energy is still there, it is just cancelled out but the movement of the platform holding the mech.
Next, over all weight of the gun, assuming all moving internal parts are the same weight... If your gun weights 30 pounds vs 10 pounds it isn't going to change a thing if the gun is completely stable with zero rearward movement possible. But that isn't how we shoot these things, they do kick. So with that into account a 30 pound gun is going to kick less than a 10 pound gun and there for less of your cycling energy of the carrier will be lost (canceled out). It takes more energy to get a 30 lb object moving than a 10 lb object. But it is not practical to weight down a gun to account for a weak running system and I am sure that some of these guns would still have problems even if you eliminated all recoil movement of the receiver.
Weight of the moving parts; bolt carrier, bolt, etc... Changing the weight of the mechanical parts is going to change things. But this is where it gets really tricky with a gillion variables to consider and I won't be going into them all and my human brain can likely only calculate partially without exploding... If you add much weight to the carrier you are going to make more energy required to move it. If you remove weight you are going to reduce the energy required to move it. This can have varying effects. It might take more energy to move a 30 lb object than a 10 lb object but this doesn't necessarily mean reduced weight is good. The carrier is only pushed for a very short stroke. The rest of it's movement is dependent on the transferred energy to it (kinetic energy, inertia). A moving 30 lb object is going to carry a hell of a lot more energy than a 10 lb object moving at the same speed. If you reduce the weight of the carrier will it have enough of this stored energy to finish the cycle against the springs? If you increase the weight of the carrier will it get enough energy to get it moving? It is a delicate balance. I will say this though and please note before hand that I am in no way tied to Ohio Rapid Fire, but when they were working on their galil project this is what the found... The galil charging handle knob... They made some to put on the carriers... They first tried to make these solid without hollowing out the knob... Their guns were failing to eject. They hollowed out the knob and the ejection issue was solved. If you know the size of the knob you know that the amount of material removed to hollow it out is very minimal... In this instance the minimal added weight was enough to make or break the cycling. It is my GUESS that adding weight to the carrier is not ideal and will hurt the cycling some unless you are going to compensate it with increased gas flow or something. It would be easy to test adding weight buy removing the cover and clamping varying weights to the carrier. It would also be easy to test reducing weight to the carrier but might not be as easy to undo this test... I am not recommending anyone try this. It is on our list of test to preform but just haven't got around to it yet...
That's exaxctly why I hollow out my charging handle for the most authentic look and light weight.
Interesting. I designed my own, charging handle, and recently posted pics. It's simply a piece of 304 with a 3/8" ball bearing atop it. It hasn't changed my operating at all. BUT what I hadn't stopped to consider was that I had already made my own gas puck thats .024" longer than the orginal. It's worth mention, but i doubt that changed anything, simply because I did the same charging handle mod to my wife's 410 and with NO modification to the gas system and it runs as well as usual. It is how ever an older magnum only model. Before making this modification, I did have it cycling 2 1/2" slugs reliably, if i carfuly loaded the first round by hand. Not sure what any of that means, but I thought it was worth mentioning. (sometimes it's better to be luck than good)
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I find this to be far more likely senario. Though the odds are astronomicaly slim, it's still the closest thing to the end of since the dino's clock ran out. http://neo.jpl.nasa.gov/apophis/
2009-Apr-29:
This animation illustrates how the unmeasured physical parameters of Apophis bias the entire statistical uncertainty region. If Apophis is a RETROGRADE rotator on the small, less-massive end of what is possible, the measurement uncertainty region will get pushed back such that the center of the distribution encounters the Earth's orbit. This would result in an impact probability much higher than computed with the Standard Dynamical Model. Conversely, if Apophis is a small, less-massive PROGRADE rotator, the uncertainty region is advanced along the orbit. Only the remote tails of the probability distribution could encounter the Earth, producing a negligible impact probability. Although measurements in 2010-2011 may cut the size of the measurement uncertainty region greatly and result in an "all clear" using the Standard Dynamical Model, it may not be until Arecibo radar in 2013 provides a spin direction that Earth's passage through the probability distribution center can be ruled out.
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Mine seems to run best when its a little dirty. So every few 100 rnds I run a20gave bore brush through the gas chamber and check the ports for obstructions, and call it good.
The "Myth" of Big Time Gun Trafficking.
in General Discussion - Any topic is welcome here!!!
Posted