RDSWriter
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Posts posted by RDSWriter
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I suspect that everyone has their own reason... but my primary guess would be paranoia about misuse.
1. For those of you in 'registering' states, criminals could use your serial number if they were so inclined to modify their SN.
2. For used weapons, people might be paranoid about maybe having a stolen weapon and don't want to advertise a serial number if it is.
3. Anything posted to the Net can live forever if others download it and re-post... it's not smart to publish serial number forever.
My reason is mainly #3 as I don't like to lose control - forever - of my serial number information. Other than posts about trying to track serial numbers/features/production... I don't communicate actual information on SN. Even then I omit the last digit.
Personally, I think it's kind of fun to Photoshop the SN and create a new one on the image. I was surprised when I posted my a picture of my Saiga 12C with SN10000001 and no one said, "Damn... you have serial number 1!!!" I've also posted firearms with SN 007, 8675309, 911, etc.
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First... picture are worth a thousand words.
Without pictures and guessing... it might be that:
1. Your hammer spring is installed incorrectly
2. The retaining plate is incorrectly modified for the S12 (you need to file off a lot above the the hole where the selector goes though or your carrier will bind, not in the hole.. but on the top of the plate)
3. The BHO was installed incorrectly.
These are all just guesses without photos or video.
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UPDATE JUNE 4
Got out the range with a Polychoke with a modified/polished bolt and feed ramp area. I basically tried out most of the same ammo as well as some other varieties. I'm not planning on posting another chart until I get it to work a little better. Loner - to answer your question, I used MS Visio to create the table and saved it as a JPG file.
In short, the Saiga12 ran a little better but would still not reliably function with high brass or heavy field loads - EVEN WITH A FULL CHOKE on the 2 gas setting.
00 Buckshot and slug had no issues on the 2 gas setting and ran 80% on the 1 setting. So the issue appears to be the amount of gas. I am very close to getting it to run... I just need a bit more gas or a bit less recoil spring pressure.
My next step is to replace the front recoil spring with a 14lb 1911 recoild spring. I highly doubt this will solve the issue... but I'm actually enjoying getting out the range more often and this step-by-step testing is definitely forceing me to make more trips to the range. I just take a couple other toys each time I go to make it more interesting (as if it needs to be more interesting than firing an SBS S12 on an indoor range
) If the spring replacement doesn't work, then I'll open up the hole(s) a bit more.
On another note, I appreciate C&S Metall Werkes posting in a different thread about their experience making the ejector a 1/4" longer. Most of my failures can be tied to a weak-ass ejection that does not THROW the brass. Even with 00 buckshot on a 2 gas setting the empty cases are only being thrown about 3 feet. Once again... indicating a gas issue.
Stay tuned..........
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Moleforetress:
The guy was in VA and had several on GunsAmerica at that price; I bought mine from him for $450 too. Funny thing is that was $50 less than what I paid for my first S12 in 1998. I probably should have bought two or three of the S12Cs, but I'm happy just having the one. FYI - I think the barrel is about 24 inches.. I can't remember as I cut mine down to 18.5" and used Dinzag's threading tool to be able to use chokes.
Also... for those of you who remember 'the good ole days' I also picked up a complete S12 parts kit from him for $75 (less the barrel and receiver), three S12s from CDNN for $199 each, one local S12 with five Russian mags for $285, five 2rd mags for $8 each, and some spare bolt carrier/bolt groups for $40 each. Too bad parts/prices aren't that great anymore... but hey... it was nice while it lasted.
I'm both a collector and a shooter, but with regards to the orig 12C barrel config... it's too long and not versatile enough. I say do with it what you want unless you actually plan on selling it or you bought it for investment purposes. The reality is that someone else may pay you the same $$ for it because they won't have to pay to have it cut and threaded. Personally, I'll never sell my 12C unless I am homeless... so I'm not worried what 'fanatical' collectors want. Enjoy it, it's yours and nobody elses.
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2nd that on the Wolf cheap blasting ammo comment... BY FAR it it the dirtiest stuff I shoot. There is an indoor range I go to that actually lets folks shoot bird, buck and slugs and when you quickly dump more than about 4 rounds it gets hard to see the target.
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Rather than getting a clamp-on style muzzle attachment, I recommend renting a threading tool from Danzig Arms... I've rented the S12 tool a couple times and had excellent results. It appears that there is still enough lenght on your barrel to do it, and you'd be able use all threaded Russian and Tromix style attachments.
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Common... not really. The real crux of the matter is that a disproportionate number of people who own them tend to frequent this board. Check out the other boards or gunbroker, you'll rarely ever see them for sale and rarely see any blogs outside this forum abou them.
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Somebody will correct me if I am wrong, but I believe that once a weapon requires a tax stamp it always does; regardless of changing the barrel.
1911
Not true. Once a machinegun always a machinegun. Any silencer part is always a silencer. BUT, you can remove AOWs, SBRs, SBSs and DDs from the NFA Registry because their status is dependent upon the configuration of the weapon.
All that is required is that you mail a letter to the NFA Branch describing the 'permanent' configuration change and request removal of the item from the NFA registry. For SBRs and SBSs you need to either install a longer barrel or completely remove and dispose the barrel. Keep in mind that you must reconfigure it prior to requesting it be removed from the registry. The BATFE should provide you with a response letter specifying that the item has been removed from the registry.
As for DDs (in the case of unsporting shotguns), you need to eliminate the features that make it unsporting or change the caliber to less than 0.5 inch. Case in point - One of the BATFE options to avoid DD registration per Rulings 94-1 and 94-2 was to eliminate the bore being greater than .5 inches. For the USAS, owners could remove and dispose of the barrel thereby owning a firearm that did not meet the definition of DD and hence not requiring registration. In the case of the Streetsweeper the cylinder and the barrel both had to be disposed of because the 12ga shells could still be loaded and fired with only the cylinder.
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I am not an appraiser or dealer, but I have been shooting and collecting Saiga 12s since 1998 when the first batch from Kalashnikov USA hit the US shores. I'm sure others will disagree with me, but the S12C is one of the most collectible semiauto AKs in my opinion. That being said, I believe that they are worth more in their original configuration as compared to an SBS. Here's my reasoning:
1. As an LEO firearm that was imported between Sept 14, 1994, and Sept 14, 2004, Saiga 12Cs can be lawfully sold to 'civilians' without any 922r compliance parts installed. Sterling Nixon affirmed this via a Tech Branch response letter. This letter was in support of the BATFEs FAQ/guidance that ALL LEO firearms imported during the AWB that met the definition of 'semiautomatic assault weapon' can now be legally sold to qualifying non-LEO individuals. (I know that some may disagree with this point, but there is a Tech Branch letter on the web - I've got to find the link - stating as much. Additionally, think if the implications of saying the S12C is unsporting in it's original configuration and thus subject to 922r. Only sporting firearms can be imported for civilian sale; if the S12C is unsporting in its orginal configuration than it de facto becomes a destructive device due to it's bore diameter. This unsporting re-classification - to date - has not been done by the ATF. Given that there are so few S12Cs, I think it will have the same future as the SPAS 15 and remain a non-NFA item.)
2. The Saiga 12Cs are the ONLY ORIGINAL Russian military weapons that have ever been imported into the US with folding stocks in their ORIGINAL military configuration that can legally be obtained by non-SOT individuals. That being said... I'm not sure that the 22" barrel is exactly 'military configuration'.
3. SBSs have a smaller potential market (currently).
Having said all of this... Saiga12Cs are interesting with regards to their value. While some conversions sell for more than an S12C, I think that most people overpay for what they buy. An S12C is an excellent deal today because the cost to build one is usually far higher than what you can plunk down and just buy an original for... if you can find one. As a whole, I think they will rise and fall with the pricing/availability of a standard S12. There's only so many original S12Cs... and there probably won't ever be anymore originals imported. So suffice to say... they will always be rare.
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In going back through my range bag, I just realized that I grabbed the wrong choke in my initial test. Instead of taking a modified choke (0,5), I took my cylinder choke (0,0). The chart above has been updated to reflect this change in information. Hopefully, I can get out this weekend or next week to test with the next round of modifications to the bolt and feed ramps as well as with a modified choke.
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UPDATED May 23
Well, I finally got out to test the modifications and it looks like I'll need to do some more tweaking. The following images show the outome of shooting 10 rounds of each type of ammo, 5 rounds with an original Russian flash hider (no choke), and 5 rounds of the Russian choke (0,0) that is equavalent to a cylinder choke. The cylinder choke basically made the barrel 14 inches. Rather than wait to post the final modification 'solution,' I figured that many of you might want a step-by-step of the modifications so that you can understand what won't work and what is the eventual solution.
On a #2 gas setting with buck shot and the heaviest loads (3 3/4 drams and 1 1/8 oz shot), the gun ran. With the #1 setting or anything lighter, my SBS was inconsistent. I don't consider this too much of a surprise, but I was hoping that by leaving the SBS barrel a bit longer may minimize the REQUIRED work to get it to run. I was plannig on doing a couple more modifications to the gun... so I'll do them and then re-test. Also next time I will bring a a modified choke to test out... I had meant to take it to the range rather then the cylinder, but accidentally took the wrong one.
So, my next steps are to re-contour and polish both the bolt and the feed ramps. I'll test and if that doesn't work, I'll open up one or two of the gas ports a litttle bit more.
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Okay... I've got to add this pump shotgun to my 'must have' purchase list when production starts. It looks like someone finally designed a 20rd doublestack 12ga magazine that works... albeit in PS90 format. I
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Any regular gun cleaner will work. I run Hoppes with a bronze/copper 12ga brush... just a few strokes followed by a dry patch and the bore has a mirror shine. Chrome is much harder, so you don't have to worry about wear.
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First, my guess is that you're shipping a longarm as pistols are a no no for non-FFLs to ship via USPS. Second, if you decide to ship via USPS... DEFINITELY ship registered. I have two close friends of mine that work at the USPS and they have told me numerous stories of individuals getting fired for stealing. Registered will prevent this, but it might cost more than FedEx ground. I have shipped a FAL Izzy HBAR, which is a very heavy 308, and it wasn't more than $18 with insurance via FedEx ground.
One thing to keep in mind when using FedEx or UPS... make sure you know what their maximum dimensions are to prevent your package getting labeled as 'oversized'. If I'm not mistaken, if the package is more than 42" long it is considered 'oversized' via FedEx and will get charged about double. Break down the gun (e.g. take the stock off or separate the upper from lower) and then package and ship.
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Thanks nalioth,unsure if we are focussing on the same spring.
Here is another view,its the solid wire spring around the trigger shaft.
Its just looks odd how it ends and looks broken.?
Nalioth is not looking at the same spring as you because that the solid spring you're asking about has nothing to do with the trigger not re-setting. He is correct in stating that your hammer spring (which also functions as your trigger spring) is incorrectly installed. Take the twisted spring wires that extend from your hammer and place them in the correct position and your problems will go away. Nalioth detailed how to fix your problem.
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sKott - You're conversion was going great until you refinished it. I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but that finish will never pass for an original S12C. The original finish is not nearly as nice looking.
In all honesty, you're conversion looks fantastic!If you were really going for factory, you should have left some oil on the metal at the joint areas to ensure the paint didn't adhere too well and make sure that you only apply a very thin coat that facilitates scratching and flaking.
It's nice to see that the home Norrel molyresin comes out so well.. I'm been thinking about doing a few of my Saigas with it and I think your pics just sold me.
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I've got my fill, so I don't anticipate buying any more. That being said, if I did not have an S12 I would find it very hard to pay more than $500 to $550 out the door. The main reason is that you still need to buy US parts and convert the gun and potentially refinish.
If they get substantially above that price, I definitely think someone will just start making them in the US because it becomes financially attractive. I mean think about it... other than the trunion, ejector block, and gas block, and bolt carrier assembly... the rest of the parts are relatively easy to produce by a US manufacturer or are already being produced. If someone really wanted to compete why not produce a US version of the SWAT model for $1500...... they'd fly off the shelves.
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ONLY SERIAL NUMBERS are subject to federal statutes for Title 1, non-NFA, privately-owned firearms.
Repeat - ONLY SERIAL NUMBERS are subject to federal statutes for Title 1, non-NFA, privately-owned firearms.
I understand the confusion because there is a lot of crap out there on this topic that just keeps getting regurgitated. But anyone who states otherwise is mistaken, and everyone who keeps posting that information other than the serial number 'protected' is just flat out 100% wrong.
On a Title 1, non-NFA firearm, only the serial number is required to be kept on a firearm by federal statute. The manufacturer, importer, make, model and all other information can be removed on a privately owned firearm.
On a NFA firearm, you can remove all Title 1 markings except the serial number (unless the Title 1 information is the same as the Title 2 information). 'Protected' markings differ for NFA v non-NFA firearms. NFA regs require both the serial number and original NFA manufacturer information. So in short, if you file a Form 1 - then you can remove all the markings except the serial number and then engrave your information (name, city, state). If you file a Form 4 - you can can remove all markings except the serial number and the original NFA manufacturer's name, city and state. Finally, where/how you engrave your markings are subject to the same regulations for both Title 1 and Title 2 firearms.
FYI - For those of you who want to reference these images in the future, you might want to download them... you never know on the Net when they will just disappear (ala Soupbowl Enterprises letter from the Tech Branch regarding the sporting Saiga 12 imported parts count being 13.)
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All I can say is you get what is coming to you. If someone wants one bad enough and is willing to pay a price that ridiculous price.... then they well get what they ask for. Being ignorant is just being stupid. I hpe the guy gets what he wants and the buyer gets what he wants. I don't give a sh## if someone gets f##ked because they are doing it to themselves by not being intelligent and searching for a fair deal. LONG LIVE CAPITALISM.
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Two letters are included in this response for reference. I do not have images of them, but if my memory serves me correct the text is from Bardwell's site. Note the difference between non-NFA and NFA firearms. For non-NFA, you can't touch the serial number. For NFA items, you cant touch the required NFA markings.
As for having an gunsmith remove the markings for you... good luck. You can remove them, but most smiths and SOTs won't do it for you. That being said, some of them will do it as I've seen many HKs and HK clones re-engraved with 'factory' correct HK markings and model numbers.
----- Text from Letter 1 -----
DEPARTMENT OF THE TREASURY
BUREAU OF ALCOHOL, TOBACCO AND FIREARMS
WASHINGTON, DC 20226
MAY 26 1995
E:CE:F:TE:GKD
3311.4
Dear Mr. XXXX:
This refers to your letter of April 1995, asking questions relative
to modifications of Heckler and Koch SP89 pistols and their
markings.
Your first request (text deleted).
With regard to your request to be able to remark a Heckler and Koch
SP89 pistol as an MP5K model, there are no provisions in the
Federal firearms laws to prohibit such a practice. However, the
serial number must remain unaltered and not obliterated.
We trust that the foregoing has been responsive to your inquiry.
If we may be of any further assistance, please contact us.
Sincerely yours,
[signed]
Edward M. Owen, Jr.
Chief, Firearms Technology Branch
----- Text from Letter 2 ------
DEPARTMENT OF THE TREASURY
BUREAU OF ALCOHOL, TOBACCO AND FIREARMS
WASHINGTON, DC 20226
MAR 24 1999
903050:EMO
3311
Dear Mr. Bardwell:
This is in reply to your letter dated January 30, 1999, in which
you ask about removing certain identifying markings from a firearm
that was lawfully remanufactured into a National Firearms Act (NFA)
weapon.
Title 18 U.S.C. Chapter 44, Section 923(i) and Title 27 Code of
Federal Regulations (CFR), section 178.92 specify identification
markings that licensed importers and manufacturers are required to
place on firearms imported or manufactured. Section 922(k) makes
it unlawful for any person to possess or receive any firearm which
has had the importer's or manufacturer's serial number removed,
obliterated, or altered, and has, at any time, been shipped or
transported in interstate or foreign commerce.
Title 26 U.S.C., Chapter 53, section 5842(a) and 27 CFR, section
179.102 specify identification markings that the importer,
manufacturer or maker are required to place on NFA firearms.
Section 5861(g) makes it unlawful for any persons to obliterate,
remove, change or alter the serial number or other identification
of a firearm required by this Chapter. Existing Federal law and
regulations do not prohibit the removal of identification markings
other than the serial number and markings required by section
5842(a).
We trust that the foregoing has been responsive to your inquiry.
If we can be of any further assistance, please contact us.
Sincerely yours,
[signed]
Edward M. Owen, Jr.
Chief, Firearms Technology Branch
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Shellshock1918 - Obviously, you have a MUCH broader selection of pistols to choose from than what you list in your initial inquiry. You've basically stated tha you want a pistol that can be used for general purposes and carry, but I would recommend you weigh which you want MORE as that will dictate how to prioritze features. From your comment I'm guessing that general purpose wins out. Second, decide if you want a semiauto or revolver. From your list, I'm guessing you want a semiauto. Third decide on the physical size and minimum caliber. Last, decide on cost. Trust me... you'll kick yourself in your own ass if you make a wrong decision over $50 or $100.
REVOLVERS
After all my years and purchases and carry guns, I have come to prefer a snubnose hammerless S&W Airweight with Corbon 38spl rounds. The damn pistol is light, compact, corrosion-resistant (Al & SS), virtually snagproof and easily concealable. It doesn't have an external safety and and goes bang every time. If it doesn't go bang, keep pulling the trigger. Unlike semiautos, you 'always' have a DA trigger that rotates the round to ensure that IF YOU HAD A BAD ROUND, it will attempt to fire the next round. No squeezing the trigger repeatedly trying to get a round to fire, no having to rack a slide to reset the striker or to chamber a new round. Revolvers are ambidextrous, and you can shoot them limpwristed, from inside a jacket pocket, inside a soft briefcase and almost anywhere else because there is no slide movement or any other external moving parts (other than the rotation of the cylinder). And for reloading (or other)... they dont' throw brass on the ground. Finally... they are very inexpensive NEW in today's market. I bought a NEW one from a dealer for $350 walking out the door, NICS and tax included. The downside - you need to be a good shot a practice often as you only have 5 rounds before the cylinder is emply. You need to hit what you're aiming at and not depend on voluminous firepower to achieve - in essence - what ONE bullet properly placed should do. On the other hand, you can consider low round count as a positive if it encourages you to practice more often.
SEMIAUTOS
Holy crap... I don't even know where to start as there are a hundreds of pistol models that can fill this role. I guess you need to decide how big of a gun you want and what caliber. This will quickly shrink your list of options. I offer two recommendations.
1. From you list, the SIG P6 is damn hard to beat. You can buy VG condition from Dan's Ammo for $259 and Excellent condition for $299. It comes with two mags, a CCW shoulder harness and box and a cleaning kit. The downside on the used German P6s is that - to get a good DA trigger pull - you'll want to swap out the hammer/main spring for an 18lb or 19lb one (about $5). This is one modification that I would highly recommend. To others comments that it won't feed HP rounds - some are more finicky than others, but you can get HP to work. Virtually all of them will feed the more conical chaped HP that are lower in grains (e.g. 115grn HP). I literally just picked a couple of P6s from Dan's Ammo and the Excellent condition ones are in fantastic shape. For more info on these pistols, go to www.sigforum.com. There is enough information on the P6s that it will take hours to read it all.
3. From a flexibility standpoint (not on list), consider the Springfield XD subcompacts. They are very nice. The subcompacts are avalable in 9mm and 40S&W. They have a shortened grip that enables the use of both a shortend magazine (for carry) as well as a full size magazine with adapter to 'make' the grip bigger for general purpose shooting. They are availble in Black, OD, Melonite (Black) slide, Stainless slide, standard sights and night sights. I've got a couple of the XD Service Models and they are one of my favorite pistols to shoot at the range. I don't use the Service Models for carry but that's why they make the subcompacts.
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First, let me state that I'm just sensative to the term 'loophole'. The modification of an imported firearm to domestic firearm is not a loophole. The law - as written - only applies to imported weapons.
922r - as created by the wonderfully intelligent, consistent, benevolent BATF - is meant to clarify what 'imported' means. The more we use the term loophole, the more some other dumb 'holes' will want to 'close the loophole' by adding a ton of other parts to the 922r list - e.g. front sight base, front sight, rear sight base, rear sight, trigger pin, hammer pin, front takedown pin, rear takedown pin, firing pin, buttplate, extractor, ejector, magazine release lever, selector, bayonet, bipod, scope mount/rings, scope. There's a lot of other parts that could be added too... considering the springs and screws.
Think about it... the ideal solution for antigunners to address the gunshow 'loophole' is to prohibit the private sale of all guns. It isn't a loophole that citizens can sell private property - including guns. For most of us in the free states of the US... we've been able to do that since the Pilgrims landed. It's not a loophole.
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Let's talk technicalities...
1. Once you (individually) cut the barrel to 16" attached to the receiver you have created an untaxed SBS - a felony. You will still have to thread the 16" barrel to properly screw on the Tromix brake (although you could just turn down the barrel an slip fit the brake). Then you'll have to either hi-temp silver solder the brake on, blind pin the brake on or spot weld at the appropriate 'point' locations to permanently mount the brake to the barrel. Finally... unless you blind pin it, you'll need to refinish the firearm. Regardless, you created an untaxed SBS even though once you weld the brake onto the barrel you are back to 18+ inches, but technically you have committed a felony.
2. If you have an SOT C2 cut the barrel, they pay no Form 1 tax. They can weld a brake to the barrel and then the item is no longer an SBS. I cannot state with 100% cetainty, but I think that if the SOT C2 does this within a 24hr period there is not requriement to submit any paperwork to reclassify the shotgun since it is no longer an SBS. In essence there is no tax evasion nor a licensing/paperwork violation.
3. Pedal2alloy hit the nail on the head when he referenced "the idea that....".
4. PERSONALLY... I don't see the reason to cut to 16", thread, weld and refinish. That's a lot of effort for only 2 inches of barrel reduction and the elimination of the ability to ever (easily) change the type of muzzle attachment you use. But hey... it's your shotgun so do what YOU want.
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This is a topic that has come up alot. Here is a relatively new thread in the S12 thread that covers what you're inquiring about.
FYI:: NEW SHIPMENT OF SAIGA"S ARE IN!
in Saiga-12
Posted · Edited by RDSWriter
Exchange rate is only a minor part... shipping is also a very minor part... the real driver is supply and demand. The Russian ruble has only gained 19% against the dollar since January 2004. In 2004, you could buy all the S12s your bank account could afford for $199 from CDNN. They had hundreds if not a few thousand at that time. Look at the market for the Saiga 12 since the expiration of the AWB in the U.S.... it has exploded, and there aren't a lot of them coming in. The Russians aren't stupid... they see the market; they see what people are bidding on web boards; they see what dealers and current owners are selling them for, and they see how many freakin' dollars we fanatics spend on them. Hence... they are maximizing profits and (somewhat) discouraging entrepeneurs from just manufacturing U.S. versions by keeping them 'just affordable enough' to prevent competition.
It is starting to surprise me that no one (e.g. Arsenal) is tooling up in America to build 12gauge AK shotguns. At over $600 and getting worse for a sporter configuration, a domestic manfacturer with a good reputation could charge $900 for a pistol-gripped, folding stock, std handguard variation and be back-ordered forever. Hell, the SLR-107FR can be had for that price all day long and 60 to 70% of the parts are compatible.
I realize the political landscape is somewhat risky for the R&D... but damn.