RDSWriter
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Posts posted by RDSWriter
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FYI - For those of you in the Tampa area, On Point firearms expects to have a couple of samples (already sold their allotment) that they will be providing for demo purposes at the St Pete Police Pistol Range in early '08.
If you're on their contact list and local, they invite you to the meet & greet and let you shoot it. Typically, the fee is $20 when they do these events. So if you're interested... it's a cheap way to see and feel it prior to ordering.
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Most of your questions can be answered 8 sections up in the 922r Compliance section
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You don't have to parkerize... BUT
If you have the means to get it parked and then Molycoated... DO IT. You'll never regret having the parkerizing. It makes the Duracoat or Moly stick much better and will make the gun finish damn near last forever. I parked and moly'd an AK (regular shooter) about 13 years ago... there are a couple of scratches, but other than that it looks new. You'll never regret getting it parked first... but I can't say the opposite.
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I can't take credit for knowing this information this fast... it was posted at 5:39pm on another thread on this board.
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Paladin - Excellent summary of the advantages disadvantages of the 6.5 and 6.8
My personal opinion is that Alexander Arms is going to lose this battle with their 6.5 Grendel due to their lack of willingness to push it as the 'open' standard. A very good friend for mine reseached the 6.5 and 6.8 for several months. Money wasn't an issue per se, but in the end he went with 6.8 because of the sheer availability of 6.8 barrels/bolts. For the exact barrel he wanted - stainless, fluted, Special Purpose profle, with his desired thread pattern... he could find one off the shelf in 6.8. The same barrel in 6.5 Grendel would have run him over $300 more because of the (real or perceived) market limitations in place by Alexander Arms. He couldn't justify the additional investment when he doesn't ever shoot more than about 300yds.
To truly get the benefits of the 6.5 Grendel (versus 6.8), you need to be able to take advantage of the long range ballistics... something my friend and I rarely ever get the opportunity to do.
Given the variety of terrains and situations the military is involved, I do think that the military should consider upgrading to the 6.8. And while I'm on this topic, I also think that they should dump all their surplus 223 parts and magazines on the US collectors market...
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If you're using U.S. FCG (3 parts) and U.S. furniture (3 parts) you should be fine. Also... you're making your own U.S. receiver as well. You'll have more than enough U.S. parts to get you imported parts count 10 or below.
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I already bought parts from them, kinda steep on the shipping and handling, like the other sites out there, but it was pretty fast. cant complain. need to bring them on as a vendor here
I'm curious what their minimum shipping charge is, as I'm considering buying a Polychoke from them. Can you elaborate?
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May I ask if you have a picture of a correct trigger guard? - I would like to get this as close as possible.
Also, If you have a a 12-C would you mind making a few measurements for me? I need to know where to drill the hole for the retaining latch pin and how long the slot is for the side - See below.
Here's the pics you wanted. For the second pic (the measurements), you'll need to open the original image to view it properly. Also, you'll note that original AWB 12Cs don't have BHO or the pistol grip plate. Personally... I'd do what you are doing and keep them as they (IMHO) should have been there in the original design. You're conversion is looking great so far.
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With regards to future transferability, it doesn't matter if you register it or a C2 registers it. if you create it on a Form 1... you can later transfer it to a Form 3 or Form 4. The one nice thing about C2s registering it is that if you use one that already manufactures AR lowers (like Anvil Arms), you dont' need to engrave YOUR information on it. This will save you a few dollars and make for a cleaner receiver that you do not need to worry about 'engraving marks'.
Great!! I guess that means I can biuld several SBS saiga's to sell without a manufacturers license.
Save's me like $3000.00 a year ?
How do think many of the machineguns prior to 1986 were built. Individuals paid $200 to manufacture them on a Form 1. Later, someone else paid $200 to buy them on a Form 3 or Form 4. So in short, YES... if you're stupid enough to buy a Saiga 12, pay $200 per Saiga 12 to manufacture them into an SBS and then try to sell them for to other people to recoup your costs... go right ahead.
Keep in mind that all the Class 2 manufacturers DON'T pay the $200 manufacturing tax per firearm due to their SOT status AND they typically provide a higher quality product due to their manufacturing capabilities AND and can sell them cheaper than you. So you'll go f'n broke becase no one will buy them from you. Also, WHY would anyone pay for your SBS when they can just manufacture them themselves and pay their own $200. Now if you sell them for much less than you pay to make them, then you might sell them. ALSO, remember that if you Form 1 an SBS that you're limiting yourself to a sale within your own state - UNLESS the out-of-state purchaser wants to pay for TWO $200 stamps.
IF you manufacture enough of them you can even pay more than $3000 in Form 1s... dumbass.
In short, whether you pay a $200 make and register tax on a Form 1 OR pay $200 for a transfer and register tax on a Form 4 - you are paying $200 to get the SBS. A Class2 SOT holder doesn't pay this so their net expense will start out $200 less than you. The reason I Form 1 most of my stuff is to avoid the additional $100 fee that most Class 3s want to charge you to transfer an NFA firearm. If you manufacture it yourself there are no dealer fees, only the NFA taxes.
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You're going love the original configuration... the 12Cs are great.
FYI - Two quick things for you:
1. It appears that you're missing the retaining clip that holds the front latch pin in the receiver.
2. Your modified trigger guard is inconsistent with the shape of an original 12C.
I am not saying this to be critical, I just want to give you a head's up (if needed) prior to getting knee deep in your conversion and finding out later. If you already know these things, please disregard this post.
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No, just buy one from a C2 that manufactures their own AR lowers. They already have to engrave the information... regardless of whether it is NFA or not. Check out a Colt SBR... you'll see that it is the same identification marking as a non-NFA rifle. No additional NFA markings are necessary because all the marks are already on it... because they manufactured it.
If you're going to have it engraved, just do it yourself. I just have an engraver engrave my information on three receivers while I waited. I'm still waiting on the Form1s to get back from the ATF... so the firearms aren't even SBRs yet. BUT you can engrave prior to them being SBRs, no need to wait. If you're going to go the engraving route and you don't mind shipping your recievers, Orion does fabulous work.
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For and AR series weapon, I've never seen the NFA manufacturer's information on the upper. You can post the question on a couple boards, but your best bet may be to write the ATFE Technology Branch and ask them if the upper is an acceptable location for NFA manufacturer markings (other than the the serial number) on an AR series firearm. I doubt it would be acceptable on an AR due to it's ability to be readily revoved... but I can't say 100% that they don't allow it.
Also, uppers aren't that much cheaper than some lowers... so if you're worried about destroying the value of parts... it won't make much difference even if the ATF allows engraving an upper.
With regards to removing an SBR from the registry... until someone cites the regulation or letter... I'm going to continue to believe that you can. Too many folks state definitively that they KNOW things and never bother to cite references. Generally I tend to respect established SOTs, but lately I've taken their advice (against my better senses and understanding of the laws) and they were wrong.
With regards to traveling with your firearm... I left one disassembled in a bank safe deposit box for a while at one point in my life. If it doesn't leave the state that it was approved to be in, and only YOU have access to it... then it's legal.
With regards to future transferability, it doesn't matter if you register it or a C2 registers it. if you create it on a Form 1... you can later transfer it to a Form 3 or Form 4. The one nice thing about C2s registering it is that if you use one that already manufactures AR lowers (like Anvil Arms), you dont' need to engrave YOUR information on it. This will save you a few dollars and make for a cleaner receiver that you do not need to worry about 'engraving marks'.
I just bought a couple of AR NFA items from Jon Kruger at Anvil Arms and I much prefer the cleaner look without my information engraved.
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Nope - Once you register the lower as an SBR, it will always be an SBR - no matter who you sell it to and will be subject to the $200 transfer tax. It doesn't matter if you put a 30" barrel on it, once you've gotten an approved form 1 on it, it will be an NFA item from that day forward... There is no going back at that point. (It's actually an SBR when you receive the approved form 1, not when you engrave it.)
Come to the dark side
When did the ATF change this? Unlike machingeguns which are 'once a machinegun always a machinegun'... SBRs by definition require a barrel less than 16" or an overall lenght of less than 26". If you removed the barrel (no barrel) or add a 16"+ barrel... you used to be able to send a letter to the ATF And have the SBR removed from the NFA registry. Of course... you could never re-attach a short barrel again, but this enabled the sale of the receiver without NFA paperwork.
Hell, this was even one of the recommended solutions FROM THE ATF regarding not registering the USASs and Streetsweepers per the 1994 classification changes. If you disposed of the barrel from the USAS so that it did not have any barrel (so that the bore was not greater than 0.5 inches in diameter), or if you disposed of both the cylinder AND barrel of the StreetSweeper... they did not have to be registered per the NFA because they did not meet the definition of an Destructive Device.
PLEASE let me know what CFR or letter changed this as this was never the ATFs position on SBRs or SBSs. This is the first I've ever heard that they can't be removed from the NFA registry. Thanks.
Finally, you don't HAVE to engrave your information on the RECEIVER of an SBR/SBS. You do HAVE to engrave it on the firearm, but legally and per ATF prior letters you can engrave it on the barrel, trunion or slide AS LONG AS IT IS NOT READILY REMOVABLE AND IT IS READILY SEEN with the firearm in it's assembled configuration. Hence, on an AR... that's why you never see manufacturer information on the barrel or upper... but on AKs it is quite common to have information engraved on trunions and sight bases. Personally, I always put my markings on my receivers... but the ATF does allow required information on other parts of a firearm. ALSO REMEMBER, if you replace said part you engraved with NFA identification marks... you are technically committing a felony because technically you can't obliterate or remove any ORIGINAL NFA marking. So in short, while you can engrave the information on something other than the receiver... consider the ramifications prior to doing it.
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Have any of you ordered from Saigastock.com? If yes, how was your experience?
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Over the past few years, I've read a number of posts regarding the reliablility of different modifications to the gas ports, barrels and springs.
In short, I will be cutting my barrel down to 13". From what I've read, this should be long enough to leave the gas block in the original location by opening up the gas ports and or adding and fourth (and potentially fifth) port if necessary.
What I would like to get from you RKIs is:
1. Information from anyone currently running a 13" barrel - your mods and tips.
2. A link to the C&S Metall Werkes modification to the gas system for a 12.5" barrel. (I've looked for over and hour and can't find this older thread.)
3. External web links that may elaborate on ensuring reliability without moving the gas block.
Thanks
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However, once a rifle, always a rifle.
For clarification... nalioth is meaning that if the receiver/firearm is papered and 4473'd as a rifle and assembled as a rifle FIRST, then it will always and forevermore be a rifle. If you have a pistol and assemble it into a rifle (adding 16+" barrel then stock), it can be reassembled back into a pistol.
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The only way we're going to see 'reasonably' priced machineguns (in the USA) is:
1. Get congress and the President to repeal 922(o)... I expect the Rapture to occur before they vote new machinegun manufacture for individuals
2. Get a case to SCOTUS and get 922(o) repealed... a remote - but the most likely- scenario for new machinegun manufacture
3. Make one illegally... and risk the 10 years in jail and never legally owning any guns again
Remember... the antigunners didn't prohibit you from owning and purchasing machineguns.... just new, affordable ones.
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It's actually pretty simple. All imported, registered machineguns prior to 1968 GCA can be transferred to individuals and dealers. After the GCA took effect, dealers could purchase imported machineguns and keep them after they gave up their SOT licenses... but these post '68 machineguns can only be purchased by a SOT holder - individuals cannot purchase these post '68 machineguns. The imported machineguns are commonly known as pre-86 dealer samples.
Machineguns manufactured after the 1986 FOPA (domestic or imported) cannot be owned by anyone without an SOT. They can be purchased by an SOT holder with the appropriate paperwork, but they cannot be kept if/when the dealer gives up his SOT status - unlike machineguns that were imported or manufactured prior to 1986. These are commonly known as post-86 machineguns and are basically restricted to ONLY LEO, military and SOT holders.
If you're wondering about the HKs, Stens, Sterlings, PPsh's, AKs, et cetera owned by individuals... almost all of them started life as semiautos or tubes and were manufactured (Form 1 or Form 2) in the US... so they are not considered imported machineguns.
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I think the optic depends on your stock type and abilitiy to get a good, quick sight picture. For the ARFX stock from ACE, I needed one fairly low so I went with a micro TruGlo. It basically similar to the Doctor red dots. With the side mount, I can remove it in about 5 seconds if I need the iron sights. The only problem with the stock setup is that the iron sights are difficult for me to get a sight picture because they are too low.
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Besides the collectable aspect is there any benefit to having a original 12c or a converted one by tromix or any other quality outfit. Any differences at all.
Thanks for the info
Ken
The primary difference is that an original 12C doesn't require conversion, nor does it require US parts to be 922r compliant. During the AWB, an officer could own a 12C as long as his department let him purchase one for official use. Upon his retirement, he could keep the 12C. As such, when the ATF made the announcement that restricted guns marked LEO during the ban could be owned and sold to civilians... the 12C falls under this exemption because the the ATF did not distinguish between domestic and imported LEO firearms. Their subsequent communications via response letters from the Technology Branch confirm that Saiga 12Cs imported during the AWB and marked Law Enforcement Only are compliant with 922r without US parts.
So in short, the Saiga 12Cs and 20Cs represent the ONLY Russian AK firearms that were imported in their original 'military' configuration.
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If you look at a factory S12 hammer, you'll note that the very tip is somewhat angled... not just radiused like a G2 trigger. This angled corner sits lower than the radiused G2s. If you simply file the same angle on your G2s, you should find that the bolt carrier will clear much easier and not 'stick'.
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Thanks tritium. While I'm on this topic... I may as well as if anyone has used the importer's information in 4a. The reason I ask is that I have a Romak 5.45 AK that has no manufacturer information, only the importer. If I SBR it, I'm guessing that the importer is acceptable given limited info?
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Although I have several NFA items, I have never filled out a Form 1 to manufacture an SBS out of an IMPORTED shotgun. My question, What information do you put in section 4a? Is it the importer's information or "Izhmash, Russian" or both?
Christmas TOYS
in General Discussion - Any topic is welcome here!!!
Posted
I got my presents to myself on Christmas eve. No pics... but the postman delivered three approved Form 1s yesterday. It's going to be a fun new year.