[Different muzzle brakes???]

I would like to put some muzzle brakes on my 308 saiga's. Which one do you like better the canted one or the larger ak style muzzle brakes? If i add the canted ones will it keep the muzzle climb down? UNKN

[Just acquired a S-308]

I'm very happy with the accuracy of my saiga w/16" barrel in 308win benchrested its shooting 1 1/2" groups with surplus ammo at 100yds. Reloads will tighten it up but i want it mainly for surplus ammo. I may do a sniper build in the future too who knows. I have a saiga w/21" barrel in 308 also that i haven't benchrested yet and i been thinking it should equal the 16" barrel or even shoot a tad better. I'm leaving the 21" barrel at 21" till i test it to see how it shoots first.

 

All my 6 saiga's are in there orginal furniture but with you guys that are keep on posting pics of your conversions two of my saiga's maybe comverted soon. Its all your guys fault too i have to say that to my misses anyhoo. I would also like to add a good scope on the rail mount too. Kalinka has a few that i'm interested in so far. I'd like to keep it all russian if i can. UNKN

[AK47 muzzle brakes???]

I wonder if i put on the canted muzzle brake on my 308 saiga will it make it more accurate? I'm shooting 1 1/2" groups now with surplus 308ball ammo. UNKN

[Chinese Norinco M14]

I've heard good things about there accuracy time will tell she is almost ready to benchrest soon. I have the one upgrade to the sadlak tactical mag release to do next and she is off to the range with my surplus south african 308 ball ammo first. My saiga in 308win with the 16" barrel shoots 1 1/2" groups using the south african surplus 308ball ammo. I also have some 145gr FMJBT i loaded up too. I just purchased some 175gr FMJBT sniper bullets with some once fired lake city 7,62nato brass. I hope to load up a few rounds to test fire in my m14 too. I hope it can run with my saiga's in accuracy. I paid $289 for my saiga's in 308win. I always said here before the russian izmash saiga's are the hottest buy on the planet ever since the very first sks arrived here. It takes a lot of gun to impress me. UNKN

 

The bottomline is I hope i have one of those unseen, unheard of 1,000yd m14's in 7,62nato. The guys at red jacket never heard of a semi auto that can shoot 1,000yds. The m14 has been around for many years doing this at camp perry in the matches so its nothing new.

[AK47 muzzle brakes???]

Is the barrel just long enough to add enough threads to attach the canted muzzle brake on the saiga in its orginal form? I'm thinking of trying it on my saiga in 223 and in 308win. I have a 21" barreled saiga in 308win i want to scope it and add the longer ak muzzle brake if this works out on my smaller 16" barrels first. UNKN

[AK47 muzzle brakes???]

I was wondering if the ak47 muzzle brakes work on the saiga if we thread the barrel? Would the canted ak47 muzzle brake hold down the muzzle climb? I'm sure someone has done or tried all this by now. UNKN

[What kind of accuracy are you getting from your Saiga 308?]

I think we don't need to spend a dime on a better barrel upgrade for the saiga in 308. To do a sniper upgrade or have an accurate better long range shooting saiga we need to experiment to find out what bullet weight is the sweet spot for the best accuracy out of the saiga. Once we have it shooting tighter groups at 100yds we need to look at the optics next. Once we apply the quality optics and sight it in were ready for shooting at the longer distances. I'm sorry but my gut feeling is the saiga with its world famous quality russian chromed lined barrel/chamber i'm sure can hold its own. We just need the right weight ammo with the right load and benchrest it down solid. Why do i need to get an AR10???? I have the ultimate proven battle rifle of all time right here for $289 / $307 OTD its the brand new russian izmash saiga. My requirements are getting a semi auto in 308 thats the best battle field proven, the most dependable, reliable, accurate, light to carry and easy to clean, rifle. This sounds like the M14 don't it? But its the russian izmash saiga.

[What does your screenname mean?]

Remember the unknown guy with the brown shopping bag over his head on the gong show withy chuck barry?? I'm the guy sitting infront of the puter with the bag over my head so no one recognises me.......i made a funny i guess. Bill oops UNKN

 

Remember the whole world is a stage and were performing for the aliens were the real gong show.

[Bear attack is very fast]

I never wander into bear country without my 338win mag. He fired a warning shot like he said and he didn't want to kill the mother bear and leave the cubs for some male bears din-din i'm sure. I never would of guessed a warning shot like this would work but i wouldn't count on it all the time for working. I wonder if they had to clean there shorts after this? I have heard true stories about one guy who walked up on a blackbear den. The bear was in it and charged out running the guy down and over him and it continued to run off. While his two buddy's watched and he had to go back to there camp and change his shorts. My point is becareful even around bear dens. UNKN

[saiga in 308win shooting distances]

when faced with this decision i decided to go with the longer barrel. 16" just seemed a little too short for such a powerful round. im very eager to see what kind of accuracy i can get, although im so damn broke i wont be able to afford very many 308 rounds.

 

I think even the 16" barreled saiga in 308win will surprise anyone with its accuracy. At first our problem was with the sks many years ago we were too busy shooting soda cans while blasting off 30rd mags having too much fun to focus on accuracy. Once we got into benchresting them the word accurate came into our vocabulary. I was very surprised at the groups we were shooting. Before this I would laugh at the pics of the sks snipers. We needed to get past the myth that the sks's & ak's/akm's aren't accurate and hunker down and give them a try benchrested. Get down right serious about accuracy with them. I make a solid rest out of 2"x10" for the front of the gun and the rear. I padded them with old coataroy (sorry bad spelling) pants folded over many times to hold the gun. I pull the gun down into the rests and slide the rear rest forward or rearward till the sights are lined up on the bullseye at 100yds. Then use the breathing technic and hold and shoot once its on the x ring. Again i pull the gun straight down in the rest solid. The rests line the gun up and i just hold in down. I know of no other way to hold it down thats as solid. Then we know just what the rifle is capabile of and have to live with it wether its accurate or not. I'm taking the human error out of it so its the gun plus the ammo were shooting. Once i shoot my 308 145gr FMJBT loads everyone of the 8k of them is exactly the same i reloaded each one singley by hand. They all should be equally and a match grade. If we can eliminate the error of the ammo now its up to the gun for accuracy as to wether its really accurate or not. The print on the paper tells the story now and it doesn't lie.

 

I did purchase those newer plastic gun rests for benchresting but i haven't tried it yet. I'm not throwing away my 2"x10" home made gun rests yet.

 

Now about the barrel length. The 16" barrel is decent in accuracy but it has to fall off somewhere around 500yds+ to maybe around 600yds from what some are saying about there shots. At this distance the 21" barrel should take over and be better, but like some are suggesting about the 18" barrel makes me think it they tried the 21" barrel before cutting it? Does the longer 21" barrel have a harmonic problem because of its unsupported longer length? I'm not sure if its a problem or not if its not accurate at the longer distances. I don't think that anyone has put the 21" barrel thru its paces yet in long distance shooting. UNKN

[saiga in 308win shooting distances]

I was only shooting the south african 308ball ammo and benchrested at 100yds were shooting 1 1/2" groups constantly. We just ran 8k of 308win using the 145gr FMJBT with IMR4895 powder and CCI #34 nato primers which were going to shoot next. I just received some lake city once fired brass and some 175gr FMJBT sniper bullets to load and try at the sametime too. I regret we can only shoot 100yds. I have two saiga's in 308 w16" barrels and one with the 21" barrel. We haven't shot the 21" barreled saiga yet we been busy putting the 16" barrel thru its paces. The IMR 4895 gun powder is for the military surplus semi auto's its the correct burn rate for the cycling. The CCI #34 primers are for the floating firing pins in the semi auto's too. Besafe; UNKN

 

BTW; When i mention the group sizes were shooting its me and my son shooting the same exact groups so its no one group fluke. I don't accept one good tight group as being the norm it has to be constant to go on record.

[SAIGA .308 VS. FN FAL]

When the import first stopped here i grabbed every saiga i could get my hands on for the fear of ever not seeing them offered here again. I picked up a like new hardley shot if shot at all used saiga in 308win with the kalinka scope and rail mount (one piece). Not being familair with this one piece scope/mount i tried to mount it and get it to lock up and it took me forever to adjust the cam tightness so it was mounted and locked up correctly on the saiga. I think thats why the PO traded it in he couldn't get the scope / mount to lock in place correctly. It makes me wonder how many get it right if its that finiky to get locked in place? I took my time to go slow and do it right but i like it now that i understand how it works. UNKN

[War Trophy Chinese SKS?]

At first my loacl gun shop wanted nothing to do with the military surplus guns, nothing. He only offered the sks's thru the many years but when he got the surplus stuff in trade he just dumped them. Right now after decades of doing this he has changed his ways and realized there is money to be made with the surplus guns. But the day of the orginal svt 40's (he had twins i got one) i grabbed an fn49 egyptian in 8mm for $270 and a fn49 lux in 30-06 for $399 all from one collection and more too. Of course i purchased a refurb unshot svt-40 weeks before for $650. He also had the argentine rifles, the p17's and the britts too but not knowing too much about the p17's stupid me i passed on them and only grabbed one arg carbine in 7,65arg for $100. The p17's were $150. I should of used my plastic and grabbed it all. I was browsing three gun shops 3 to 4 times a week looking for steals/deals. You have to stay looking. UNKN

[Chinese Norinco M14]

I've always wanted to get an m1a/m14 semi auto rifle in 7,62nato. One of my local dealers advertised it for $799 and along with some free trades i had laying around i got it for under $400 OTD. The rifle appears to be not shot that much with no noticable wear at all. I did fix the loose op rod guide block and i installed the national match op rod spring guide from brownells and the extra power op rod spring from wolf. The headspace checked out ok too with lots of life left in her too. I'm waiting for the metric tactical mag release and the extra gas plug i ordered too. I'm going to make a metric adjustable gas valve out of the gas plug. Then i'll be as far as i can go with this norinco. I can't wait to shoot it soon. I hope its as good as my saiga in 308win. Sometimes were the windshield and sometimes the bug and i'm the windshield on this one i did ok so far. UNKN

[Accuracy out of the 16" barreled saiga in 223rem??]

I haven't had time to sight in my saiga's yet in 223rem with the 16" barrels. Whats the average groups at 100yds for this rifle using wolf fmj ammo?

UNKN

[Mosin nagant ideas]

Why do this do you ask? I picked up a sporterized 91/59 which i thought at first was an M44 because of its shorter barrel. The rear sight being milled off at the longer distances was a dead give away its a m91/59. I also noticed the front part of the barrel is much thicker too. I haven't shot it to this day but i'll bet its very accurate. The gunsmith who did the sporterizing on it also cut and welded a bent bolt, he mounted a modern front sight and did a trigger job on it. If i mount a scope on it i'm sure it will make a great hunting rifle. My point is the 91/30 cut down becomes a 91/59 or similair. Thicker barrel at the muzzle end means less barrel harmonics and maybe sniper accuracy too. UNKN

[War Trophy Chinese SKS?]

The only bring backs from nam i have seen for sale at the BIG E gun show in westspringfield,mass were two war bring backs that were sealed with poly i'm guessing to preserve the blood stains. They were only around $450 to $500 at the time and the one that had more blood was priced higher. Seeingt the blood gave me the willies. I passed on them. Of course today i think i should of grabbed both. Since i haven't seen many war bring backs in person i been thinking we just may see more and more due to the owners getting older and passin on. If we stay browsing I have caught the older collectors trading in there collections at my loacl gun shop and i got some great buys becaue the gun shop owner wanted to roll them over really quickly to get his investment back. I purchased an svt-40 for $300 from him. He just dumps the surplus stuff. We need to keep an eye out for this too. UNKN

[SAIGA .308 VS. FN FAL]

I think the russian izhmash saiga is way under rated and over looked because it has that "ak/akm" label on it. But if we take a closer look its not your normal "ak" or "akm". The russians at izhmash focused on making a very accurate, more accurate than any other ak/akm style semi auto and they did it. With the saiga in 308 shooting 1 1/2" groups using surplus ammo and 1/2" moa's with a better quality ammo would i call it fairly accurate i don't think so. Years ago when the first saiga's were offered in 308win some shooters were ringing gongs at 450yds with the 16" barreled 308's. I'd like to see someone shoot the 16" and 21" barreled saiga's in 308 out at farther distances to see how really far they can shoot accurately. I think the saiga's are tigers waiting to be unleashed. The saiga's are one of the best quality ak/akm's out there in a sporter wrapper its the best quality the russians can offer us too. I can only benchrest out to 100yds, i wish i had a longer range here to play with it out to 1,000yds.

 

Barrel life and wear?? With the 308win round it depends on what load and bullet weight were using. I think the hotter loads will cause problems with wear in the throat area first. Using the lighter loads the chrome lined bore should last for many rounds more. Then there is a difference with new ammo and brass and steel cased ammo. The chrome lined bore and chamber should hold up with the brass cases but i'm not sure how the many rounds of steel cased ammo will. My point is barrel and chamber life will vary on what were shooting out of it. We can't really perdict it because there are too many variables. If we look at the 7,62x39 round in the ak/akm's were getting 100,000rds + in barrel life. But being its a more powerful 308win round the life will be much less. If we use only the 308win ammo loaded on the low side with the brass case only with the industrial chrome lined bore and chamber of the saiga i would estimate the barrel life to be at least 25,000rds. max with a 12,000 minimum this is my gut feeling. I would check the throat wear and the accuracy, thinking the accuracy would fall off first.

 

The only thing i did to my 6 new saiga's was to lube them with moly. It lessens the trigger pull and smooths it out too. The saiga's action is way smoother too and it cycles faster too. Other wise there bone stock and accurate. UNKN

[1/2" MOA's and better????]

Your shooting these awesome tight groups with your saiga in 308win like 1/2" moa's and better. My question is how much work was done on your saiga to get it to shoot this kind of accuracy?? Or is it out of the box stock in its orginal condition? I heard rumors that these saiga's had work done on them to shoot this kind of accuracy. YES or NO ??? UNKP

[saiga in 308win shooting distances]

My saiga in 308win will shoot 1 1/2" groups @ 100yds using the surplus south african 308ball ammo benchrested. Now some shooters here with the 308win saiga are shooting 1/2" moa's @ 100yds. With this kind of accuracy i'm thinking the saiga maybe accurate at the longer distances too. With the russians @ izhmash admitting the two american calibers of 223 and 308 are a tad more accurate over the russian calibers. I'm also kind of certain at some point at the longer distances the 21" barrel would take the asaiga in 308win out even farther at the longer distances over the 16" barrel. The norm has been the longer the barrel the more accurate the gun is its been a rule of thumb for eons. I'm just wondering if anyone has taken the 308win with the 16" barrel to its limits in long distance yet? And then has taken the 21" barreled saiga in 308win at that point to see where it takes over and how far can it shoot accurately. I've heard great things about the 308 saiga's in accuracy but i'd like to know if there are any limits or pro's and con's in long distance shooting. Its a great gun and I feel its under rated but it fills a nitch in our market in cost and quality and i'd like to see just how accurate it is at all the distances. Another point is can it be accurate enough to compete in matches. I'm sorry if i'm boring anyone or trying to make false statements but think about it. Were(me & my son) shooting 1 1/2" groups @ 100yds using surplus ammo. There are way more expensive bolt action & semi auto rifles that can't do that even when the manufacturer says its guarenteed to shoot 1 1/2" groups. I think the saiga's are far better than most shooters/owners think they are. The russians at izhmash did say they focused on making the saiga more accurate than its ak/akm brothers but i think its beyond those in accuracy. I think they need to be tested at all the distances maybe out to 800yds or were the accuracy falls off. Evey rifle has its limits. UNKN

 

BTW; We had the saiga in 308win out now at the range so many times benchresting it we can affirm it constantly shoots 1 1/2" groups using the SA 308ball ammo. Now the saiga in 223 is up at bat next. I can only test these at 100yds thats all the distance we have here.

[What kind of accuracy are you getting from your Saiga 308?]

When i post about my accuracy with any rifle or handgun its me and my son shooting it and getting the same results so its no fluke. With us only using the surplus south african 308ball ammo so far were both getting 1 1/2" groups @ 100yds benchrested. They seem to stay at 1 1/2" groups no less and no larger if we do our part. This isn't bad with using surplus 308 ball ammo. We will be loading up some match grade quality ammo in 145gr FMJBT, 150gr FMJBT and some 175gr FMJBT ammo to try next benchrested. UNKP

 

I believe the shorter distances require the lighter bullets and the longer distances require the heavier bullets because there more stable. But there are also the cross wind factors and our capabilites on that day too. I also wonder were the 21" barrel will out shoot the 16" barrel at what distance?

 

With the lighter bullet there is less peak breach pressure time wise to move out the lighter bullet as to where the heavier bullet requires a longer peak breech pressure timing to move out the bullet. Can this matter, i'm not sure yet. But it could also be why the bullet weights can differ in performance. I think its the rifling and the breech peak pressure timing that can affect its performance. Its the difference between a slow pitch and a fast pitch.

[saiga in 308win shooting distances]

I been wondering at what distance does the accuracy of the saiga in 308win with the 16" barrel fall off at??

 

My point is whats the limit on accuracy with the 16" barreled saiga in 308win at what yardage?

 

I'm thinking when the 16" barreled 308 saiga at the longer distances falls off accuracy wise this is where the 21" barreled saiga in 308 will take over. Now how far will the 21" barreled saiga in 308 will shoot accurately, how far out past the 16" barrel??

 

Or is the 16" barrel more accurate than the 21" barrel in 308 with the saiga?

 

Sorry i can only shoot 100yds here and i would like to know and shoot at a longer distance to find this out for myself but we have no longer ranges here. Has anyone pushed the limits of there 16" and 21" barreled saiga's in 308 yet? Reading here about the 1/2" moa's has anyone thought of entering there saiga's in the shooting competions yet? I hear the swiss k31's are stirring things up in the long range competitions and i was wondering when the saiga's will appear and stirr things up even more at the shooting matches? Sorry but i have a gutt feeling the saiga is much better than were seeing it is right now at the longer distances. Plus I would love to see the saiga kick butt over the higher priced rifles in its class. UNKP.....

[Red Jacket 1911]

A 1911 from redjacket sounds great. Did you notice they only use the saiga's as a platform for most of there builds?

 

You don't have a 1911 yet?? Shame on you, your missing out on one of the best auto's there ever was. I like my CZ85DB and the CZ line of pistols too but the 1911's are awesome too.

 

After owning three bad brand new 1911's in the 70's, 80's and 90's the last 1911 for me was going to be a used norinco. The norinco showed me what all the 1911 hype is all about. I soon after went out and purchased a brand new Auto-ordnance army WW2 copy 1911a1 in 2005. Its been flawless right out of the box for well over 500rds+ now too. At the sametime i purchased a brand new in '05 a Springfield armory G.I. Mil-Spec 1911 and i just shot it after all this time and its been awesome right out of the box too. I don't know why but the label on the green plastic box says G.I. Mil-Spec. It seems my curse of the 3 bad 1911's is broken now.

 

I been reworking my norinco 1911a1 and so far she shoots one clover leaf per mag even with a loose slide to frame fit. I can't beat my orginal $300 investment for a well used norinco. I did install a $59 new barrel and full length guide rod kit w/18# recoil spring from sportsmans guide and a national match IAI barrel bushing $12 and the IAI full wrap around rubber grips $9 from CDNN. I also ramped the disconnector slot on the bottom of the slide. Right now it cycles much faster and smoother too. I started off with all the wilson combat dvd's and the Jerry K 1911 shop manual and his armorers VHS to learn everything i can about the 1911's. Little by little i been buying up all the tools to work on the 1911's too. I had one new 1911 that stove piped for many years and i fixed it by tuning the extractor. There not that hard to work on and make improvements. I figure if i'm going to own them and run them i better know how to repair them when something goes wrong with them. UNKN

 

 

BTW; The most fun is tweeking my norinco and seeing the success i'm making with it. I fitted the new barrel to the national match barrel bushing and its accurate with 100% lock up with no barrel spring in either direction. I'm no 1911 guru nor will ever be one but i can work on my own 1911's with success.

[7.62x25 tokarev ammo prices going up or down in near future?]

I was buying it by the sealed can as often as i could. I haven't shot the tok's much either. I hope the surplus tok ammo shows up again too. It was only $79 on sale per 1240rd can. I have a few cans but i wish i had more stocked up. Bill

[Ready to call it all B.S.!]

Years ago with my very first saiga in 308win using the surplus south african 308 ball FMJ ammo me and my son were shooting 1 1/2" groups at 100yds benchrested. I realize it could shoot even tighter groups with a better quality ammo too. But were very happy with the 1 1/2" groups with surplus ammo. For a brand new russian izhmash saiga for just $289 with this kind of accuracy along with the dependability this is hard to beat. Off the shelf the saiga is accurate and the accuracy depends on the quality of the ammo were using too. Now i wonder how good it can shoot using the 175gr FMJBT sniper bullets. The sweet spot for the 308 round seems to be between the 165gr/168gr and the 175gr bullets i believe in most cases. Now i wonder if the 1 1/2" groups will tighten up with the heavier bullets. Don't forget were benchresting it down tight and there is no movement at all in the rifle. When i benchrested my new remington 700 in 338win mag this way i put two rounds thru the same hole at 100yds. So my way of benchresting seems to work and hold the rifle much tighter. I'm almost taking the human factor out of it. I use two home made 2"x10" gun rests one for the front and one for the rear. I let the front of the gun just rest in the front rest and use the back rest to adjust the sights on the target at 100yds. It takes time to adjust the rifle then i hold it straight down into the rests when the sights line up its ready to shoot. I also use the proper breathing and then hold and fire. This tells me what the gun is capabile of doing accuracy wise. I use two solid rests. We did the samething with my norinco sks using norinco ammo and she shot 1 1/2" groups at 100yds too. Again with surplus ammo. Now i need to start reloading for my 308 saiga to see what it can really do. I know there are a few guys here who are shooting steel targets at 450yds with there 16" barreled 308 saiga's and well under 1" moa's @ 100yds too. Bill

 

BTW; The only mods to my guns are there lubed with moly and on the sears too. The let off is very smooth on the triggers when there lubed with moly. The saiga is very rough at first and when its lubed with moly it feels like a more expensive gun.