wispa78
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Posts posted by wispa78
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Well, here's my '06 vintage Saiga. Nothing out of the ordinary as far as reverting it close to the way it was intended. I'm going to get a Hogue pistol grip soon and I'm thinking of trying the Krebs aperture sight too. There's a Russian military sling on its way to me now and I think that will be a nice addition. I wanted to keep mine very basic right from the start and so far that's what I've done.
It has a Tapco G2 FCG, retaining plate, SAW grip, K-Var warsaw length buttstock and an angled trigger guard all bought from Dinzag. The SGM 30rd magazine is from Carolina Shooters Supply. Both retailers have been great to buy from. Thanks to both of you!
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There's nothing wrong with the longer barrel versions. If I were you I'd convert it then put a nice Russian scope and a skeleton stock on that bad boy. Saiganov Light
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My mail order Russian beauty arrived yesterday. Natalya. Took her home and undressed her right away. Then it was drilling and grinding and working on Americanization for the next couple of hours.
Sounds great, but how did the rifle turn out?
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Anyone else want to weigh in on this? I am going to be putting a shopping list together soon.
You've already got some good answers but I'll list what I bought...
All from Dinzag
Modded Tapco G2 FCG - FCGPGC1
AK retaining plate - AKRETP1
Saiga Conversion Kit - CONVKITSAW
K-var black WARSAW buttstock
Tapco SAW grip - TAPSAWBK
At the time I ordered this stuff I didn't realize Hogue or Ergo had grips to fit this rifle. They've been out for a while but I just didn't hear about them until after I converted my Saiga. I'm not sure if I'd like the pronounced finger grooves on the Hogue grip so I might lean towards getting the Ergo grip. That's just personal preference though. Just a heads up in case you didn't know either.
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So I bought a Saiga with the intention of not converting it...well, that sounded good for about 2 range trips. So I'm looking at K-var Stock/PG vs Tapco Fixed stock/PG. The K-var is about 30% more and I'd have to order my conversion parts from multiple places (more shipping). I'm setting up two different Saigas (.308 and a 7.62) so I'm hoping to get them as similar as possible so I'll be buy two of everything (when possible). Are these two stock equal quality or is it worth the extra for the K-var? Also, does the surefire handguard work well with both models?
I've read that the k-var stock has a better (more secure) mount for a sling and is more accurate to the look of an AK stock. It also has the trap door for the cleaning kit and a metal butt plate (not sure if Tapco has that). I went with the k-var for mine and have no regrets. I can't speak for the Tapco stock since I've never tried one. People tend to say they aren't built as well.
I do have the Tapco SAW pistol grip and probably will be swapping that out for the Hogue version. There's nothing wrong with the Tapco PG but I would have originally went with the Hogue if I knew they made one at the time I was ordering.
I believe the Surefire handguards will fit both rifles the same.
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Well, it's not always the best source but Wikipedia has this:
Difference between 5.56 and commercial .223
"The 5.56 mm NATO and .223 Remington cartridges and chamberings are similar but not identical. Military cases are generally made from thicker brass than commercial cases; this reduces the powder capacity (an important consideration for handloaders[12]), and the NATO specification allows a higher chamber pressure. NATO EPVAT test barrels made for 5.56 mm NATO measure chamber pressure at the case mouth, as opposed to the location used by the United States civil standards organization SAAMI. The piezoelectric sensors or transducers NATO and SAAMI use to conduct the actual pressure measurements also differ. This difference in measurement method accounts for upwards of 137.9 MPa (20,000 psi) difference in pressure measurements. This means the NATO EPVAT maximum service pressure of 430 MPa (62,366 psi) for 5.56 mm NATO, is reduced by SAAMI to 379.21 MPa (55,000 psi) for .223 Remington.[13] In contrast to SAAMI, the other main civil standards organization C.I.P. defines the maximum service and proof test pressures of the .223 Remington cartridge equal to the 5.56 mm NATO.
The 5.56 mm NATO chambering, known as a NATO or mil-spec chamber, has a longer leade, which is the distance between the mouth of the cartridge and the point at which the rifling engages the bullet. The .223 Remington chambering, known as SAAMI chamber, is allowed to have a shorter leade, and is only required to be proof tested to the lower SAAMI chamber pressure. To address these issues, various proprietary chambers exist, such as the Wylde chamber (Rock River Arms)[14] or the ArmaLite chamber, which are designed to handle both 5.56 mm NATO and .223 Remington equally well. The dimensions and leade of the .223 Remington minimum C.I.P. chamber also differ from the 5.56 mm NATO chamber specification.
Using commercial .223 Remington cartridges in a 5.56 mm NATO chambered rifle should work reliably, but generally will not be as accurate as when fired from a .223 Remington chambered gun due to the longer leade.[15] Using 5.56 mm NATO mil-spec cartridges (such as the M855) in a .223 Remington chambered rifle can lead to excessive wear and stress on the rifle and even be unsafe, and the SAAMI recommends against the practice.[16][17] Some commercial rifles marked as ".223 Remington" are in fact suited for 5.56 mm NATO, such as many commercial AR-15 variants and the Ruger Mini-14, but the manufacturer should always be consulted to verify that this is acceptable before attempting it, and signs of excessive pressure (such as flattening or gas staining of the primers) should be looked for in the initial testing with 5.56 mm NATO ammunition.[18]
It should also be noted that the upper receiver (to which the barrel with its chamber are attached) and the lower receiver are entirely separate parts in AR-15 style rifles. If the lower receiver has either .223 or 5.56 stamped on it, it does not guarantee the upper assembly is rated for the same caliber, because the upper and the lower receiver in same rifle can, and frequently do, come from different manufacturers - particularly with rifles sold to civilians or second-hand rifles.
In the more practical terms, as of late 2009 most AR-15 parts suppliers engineer their complete upper assemblies (not to be confused with stripped uppers where the barrel is not included) to support both calibers in order to protect their customers from injuries and to protect their businesses from litigation following the said injuries."
It can't be much of an issue with Saiga 223's since so many here use 5.56 military ammo and report no troubles at all. If it truly was a .223 chamber I'd think someone would have had some issues by now.
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That's reassuring, thanks! I just got a few boxes of 5.56 and it's nice to have a definitive answer. Many people here use it with no issues but it's nice to hear it from the source.
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If your concerned, just use a flat washer to take up the space, pretty sure it's not needed though.
Thanks! That's what I was thinking, but just wanted to stop by here to get someone's opinion.
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I recently converted my rifle. Originally I had the intention of installing the BHO lever but changed my mind during the conversion. Since there's a space between the wall of the receiver and the hammer I'm thinking I should use something (a washer maybe?) to fill in the gap. I've already taken it out to the range once and it works great. I'm concerned about the hammer spring though. The right side looks to be sitting a little more slanted than the left side. This is due to where the hammer was cut to allow for the BHO lever be installed.
Am I probably going to run into trouble if I leave it be? Has anyone found a good way of filling in the gap? My other option would be to order another hammer that is not cut. What would you guys do?
Edited to add...Sorry, I forgot we have a conversion forum too. If this needs to be moved there I understand.
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maybe im wrong, but it seems to me that i heard a long time ago that those holes are for higher pressure rounds like the 5.45 and .223 to let the gasses escape faster. I dont think you need them or even makes a difference on the 7.62 rounds, but im sure someone will come around and straighten things out.
My .223 version doesn't have the vents. It might help to have them but I guess they're not needed. I'm interested to learn more about the differences though.
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It looks like the Brakeout and the Blackout are for barrels with threading that differs from the standard AK options.
Your right they're for 1/2-28 threaded barrels only. The barrel on mine is still as it was from the factory so I was thinking I could get it threaded to that spec and use the AAC flash hider. Mississippi Auto Arms sells a Saiga 223 kit for 1/2-28 threads. One thing I'm going to have to consider if going the 1/2-28 route is the difference in length from the front sight block to the tip of the muzzle. I think it's different from AR-15's, which is what this FH is intended for. That could mean I may not want to thread that entire area. I'll have to check around but I think it'll work.
Then again I may decided to just leave well enough alone and keep it "naked".
Aarontwhitehead, if your rifle's barrel is already threaded to a standard AK threading then this won't work unless some kind of adapter exists.
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Never tried that one. I'm deciding between an Advanced Armament Corp. Blackout or Breakout. The Blackout is a flash hider and the Breakout is both a brake and flash hider. I'm leaning towards the Blackout model for money savings and because I really don't want a brake on mine. That's just a personal choice.
If you're going for all out cool factor the Brakeout would probably be the better choice between those models. They're both availible with threading for a silencer, which AAC offers as well....if you're into that sort of thing.
Here they are if you're interested...
Blackout
Brakeout
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I just converted my rifle today and used a paint my father had from another project. It matched up nicely. I only painted the small bare area on the bottom of the receiver (after you take the trigger guard/plate off). Also, mine had a few chips on the barrel from the gun shop I bought it from. They must have had it on metal wall hooks or something. Anyway, the color is hot rod black and it's a lacquer aerosol. I can't remember which brand it is but I'll check and post back tomorrow.
It may not be the best choice if you're going to refinish the entire rifle, but for touch up spots it's great.
Update
I checked the paint and it's PlastiKote premium lacquer in hot rod black. It dries and hardens quickly and matched really well. Here's a link to it on the plastikote website:
In the description of the paint it says "deep gloss coating" but the T-3 Hot Rod Black has a finish very similar to the stock saiga. I'll post pics later today.
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Thanks for the pics Superhawk. I'm still trying to figure out what type of forearm I want. I like the factory look but I often think about the Galil style handguard too. The MP5 style is nice that it shows off a little more of the gas tube and has a similar look to the factory piece. Decisions, decisions.
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Yes a factory configured FCG is available. I'm going to get one of these myself as I'm really liking the feel of the RAA skeleton stock I just bought. Here's a link to a Tapco trigger group for a stock Saiga.
http://www.dinzagarms.com/misc_parts/fcg.html
The picture on top is what it looks like. In the items list below the pictures you're looking for part # FCGNPG1.
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What does "full PG conversion" mean?
Full pistol grip conversion.
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Does something like this put strain on the FSB? I wonder if the pressure and energy after firing many rounds would start to cause any trouble. I'm aware DHP Arms is a reputable company and did their testing, but still wonder if it's something to be concerned about?
I like the idea very much and the product interests me. I'm not trying to put down or criticize anything...just curious.
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Those are pretty sweet , I saw another post about that recently, Redjacket? Bob?
Since you mentioned redjacket I went to his website. And what do I find on the front page?
This:
I'm not clear on what has to be done but at least it's possible.
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I've seen a few pictures of saiga rifles wearing wide MP5 forearms. Do they fit like the factory handguard? Is there a special retainer that is needed?
This is the style I'm interested in
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I was looking on the gilbertsguns website for a few things and noticed they are showing the 7.62 in stock here: Gilberts Saiga inventory
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Sounds like great advice. Very much appreciated rangemaster.
My Saiga will be used for range fun and home defense, if ever needed. I intend to shoot free hand more than any bench type shooting. I figure if you become accurate without a rest you'll naturally be accurate with one.
Funny you mention minding the hood (or any part of the vehicle). I watched a video of someone firing a .50 BMG off the tailgate of his truck. First shot completely shattered the tail light cover....oops! Here's the link to that video if you're interested: muzzle blast vs tail light
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Thanks for the input. The more I think about it the more I want to keep it simple. At least until I get familiar with the stock sights and overall feel for the rifle. I was thinking of putting some type of holographic sight that would co-witness with the irons. Although, I'm feeling it's best to learn without sight aids at first. Especially since this is my only AK variant of any kind. That said I'm leaning more towards the Galil handguard and waiting on the gas tube rail.
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It's looking good! I get to pick up my first Saiga tomorrow. I'm up in the air about which handguard I want to go with. It'll either be a Galil style piece like yours or the Surefire tri-rail.
I hope the pain goes away for you soon. Unfortunately it sounds like something that would take a while to heal properly. Assuming you don't, what kind of time frame did they give you until you could have full range of movement with your shoulder?
IZ-114: .223 Remington or 5.56x45 ?
in Saiga .223
Posted
It's fine for 5.56 cartridges. Just to make things more official here's a screen shot of an email conversation between the US importer of Saiga rifles (Clyde Woods of RAAC) and myself.
I've used 2009 IMI 5.56 in my rifle with no problems at all.
I hope this puts your mind at ease.