santanatwo
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Posts posted by santanatwo
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It also cocks the hammer. Leave it alone. Make NO madification to a reciever or bolt untill you know EXACTLY what each part does for a living. Some of these parts have functions that are not redibly evident.
GOB,
The bolt carrier cocks the hammer. that little 3rd lug does nothing but scrape the rounds and "lock" as a lug. Although I have found wierd marks on my hammer that i've attributed to the 3rd lug.
If Mausers etc. are just fine with 2 Lugs, AK's are fine with 2 lugs, why can't the .308 be fine with 2 lugs?
I want to be safe, but I just don't see the necessity of a Lug that doesn't even contact.
But if you guys are dead set on me keeping it, I will... for now.
this statement led more than one person to believe you were about to do something very stupid.
and what if someone else had followed your lead?.. and what if one of you had sold the gun later, and a third party got killed because of it?
(I posted this thread on another gun forum, half the replies invoked darwin)
this is dangerous ground you are treading on, "thinking outside the box" ?!?!?
more like "thinking inside the loonie bin"
seriously, sorry if you feelings got hurt, but you needed a wake up call, bro.
like I said before, I'm glad you were smart enough to post this first, rather than do it first, but when you started arguing against good advise, the gloves come off.
look up pressures, on a 7.36 x 39 they are about 2/3 of what they are on a 308... thus, the third lug.
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ok, class, is EVERYBODY paying attention?
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Seriously you guys know how to turn a simple question (what's the best long range saiga) into 10 pages of BS and off topic conversation.
Sorry, Compadre, but you would get a similar response if you asked (as King Arthur did, in 'Monty Python and the Holy Grail') how to use sheeps' bladders to prevent earthquakes.
Saigas are NOT target rifles - just as sheeps' bladders can NOT be used, in any way, shape, or form, to prevent earthquakes...
not 100% true.
there are individual saigas and other AKs that are capable of amazing (for an AK design) accuracy.
2MOA Romy G on a NDS-1 with an elcheapoo 2.5 x scout scope and the elcheapo barrle clamped rail whore mount.
and a 2MOA Milled Mak 90
like I have said before my 20" saiga 308 will do amazing things.
other people have them in 223 that are equally amazing. but such things are luck of the draw.
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Lube? What lube, AKs dont need no Lube... jk I oil the bolt lugs and where the bolt rides on the carrier and sometimes on the rails, but I noticed when you oil the bolt the rails pick some oil up from that. Use as little oil as possible to prevent buildup. Ive ran 150 rounds in mine one day dry and it just made it easier to clean. Just clean the barrel and gas system with whatever and run an oil patch through the barrel. If the finish rusts just go get the Krylon high heat temp paint and coat it wait an hour then bake it on at 350 for one hour in the oven (wife will complain of the smell, just dont open door till finished) then you shouldnt have any rust problem with it. just keep exposed metals oiled.
if you are in a non-dusty/gritty environment, (IE not in the desert) I put a light coat on the rails, and on the hammer/trigger group, as well as the locking lugs and shaft of the bolt. and a little onthe locking area of the trunion.
the factory uses white lithium grease on the moving parts, like the locking lug area, and top of the hammer where it rides against the bolt carrier..
and a light oil in the firing pin.
if you will be in the desert or in a dusty/sandy environment, use dry lube, like silicon or (even better) graphite.
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if you plan on getting a cetme, keep the saiga and pick up the cetme now while you still can....
+1
I have experience witht he g3 / cetme.
they are not so good.
german engineering isn't all that.
They tend to be fond of over-complicated systems that must be fine tuned, wear out easily, and are difficult to fix when they do wear out.
saiga 308 for the win!!!
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that is almost as stupid (no offence) as grinding a feed ramp into the chamber area (to allow feeding of unmodified mags (or in leu of installing a proper feed ramp)
So what about factory guns with the chamber area ramped? I guess they all blew up too.
BTW, those aren't "factory" guns, they are modified by irresponsible third party distributors (it's teh cheap way), here in the USA
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LOL milo....
I'm serious. Heck, my little one doesn't even touch the barrel trunnion when the bolt's closed. It's a free-floating lug.... My only gripe is that it hits the rounds and slows the bolt's rearward travel.
remove the bolt from the bolt carrier (unload your gun first)
insert bolt into trunion and rotate, look at it fromt he underside, the 3rd lug DOES make contact.
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And for the record, nobody but the Staff here (and yourselves of course) can see all your warning levels.
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Santana2 and gunnysmith thanks for helping watch out for the noobies when they try to do stupid things. We are watching too but sometimes it takes us a while to get to the thread in question, with ALL the others we have to read through.
It helps a lot when people use the report post to mod button. Santana if you had used that before, instead of taking it upon yourself to break the rules and troll in the for sale section, your warning level (<--------) would still be at zero.
Thank you, sir.
I just found the report button today
I noticed it on arfcom a while back, and when I saw that new thread in the 308 section, I was like OMG WTF BBQ, and thought to myself "I wonder if there is a report button?"
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I edited out the cuss words from my post above, I should have left them it.
So, I just got home and verified what the original poster is talking about.
EPIC FAIL
Do you WANT to die? If so, please continue.
If you value your life... PLEASE DO NOT DO THIS
that "third lug" is part of what holds your rifle together when 50,000 PSI slams into the bolt face.
It may take 5 rounds or 500 rounds, but one day the bolt will shear off and send the bolt carrier flying through your head!!!!
YOU will fucking DIE!!!!!
Mods, please forgive the cuss word, but the circumstances warrent something to make the OP wake up... before he kills himself, or causes someone else to follow his lead and they get killed too,
or worse yet, an unsuspecting third party buys said gun, and ends up dead!!!
I posted a link from the "grind down your 223 bolt face thread... (change your headspace, for the lose!)
There is a reason the ruskies put three lugs on there! Because two lugs are needed for a low pressure round like the 7.62 x 39.
308 is much higher pressure, and the AK lugs are not that thick and strong compared to the other rifle you mentioned as "only needing two lugs!"
You WERE ignorant... ignorance can be fixed through education. Luckily you were smart enough to post a thread about it, to ask the profeshunals.... thank you.
However, people who fail to learn are often given awards by someone called Darwin!
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I emailed them this, I hope they respond soon.
Hello Sir,
I have one of the 25 round 308 mags with the "bad follower". It will not feed at all when it is loaded past 15 rounds.
The bigger problem is that I was getting charged by a wild pig when the gun jammed, and the magazine got damaged in the panic. (I had not tested the mag in live fire before I went hunting with it, I had only cycled it by hand.) I had trust in your product, as many people had said it was good to go. That was a mistake, I admit. NEver go into a dangerous situation with an untested weapon.
In live fire the bullets nosed down, jamming the gun.
I had to slap the bolt with my hand, and almost got killed by the pig... but I finaly forced a round home (just in time), and it all worked out.. but the magazine's feed ramp is damaged and I would like to send the magazine in for replacement, as is listed on the warrenty card that came with the mag (I bought it brand new).
Could you please provide an address that I can ship it to, so that you may examine the magazine and determin what the cause is, and also send me a new magazine.
Thank you,
(snip)
P.S. I must admit my confidence in your product has been severely shaken, but I am willing to let you try to make good on this bad situation. Many people (especialy on www.saiga-12.com) have stated that you made a good product, and I am willing to give you a second chance.
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Thank You, Gunnysmith, your praise means a lot. but we have another fail thread on isle 4
paging gunny...
http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showto...mp;#entry262127
for the record I have a 20% warning for calling out a paying member (dumbass) for trying to sell an illegal SBR to unsuspecting members on the open forums.
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I did it with a fair ammount of cursing... (lord forgive me, I get a little wound up when I see highly illegal, crazy, dangerous, deadly stuff going on) I should "should have handled it with IM" to quote a Mod.. but I got the results that needed getting (ad. was withdrawn and thread deleted)...
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It also cocks the hammer. Leave it alone. Make NO madification to a reciever or bolt untill you know EXACTLY what each part does for a living. Some of these parts have functions that are not redibly evident.
GOB,
The bolt carrier cocks the hammer. that little 3rd lug does nothing but scrape the rounds and "lock" as a lug. Although I have found wierd marks on my hammer that i've attributed to the 3rd lug.
If Mausers etc. are just fine with 2 Lugs, AK's are fine with 2 lugs, why can't the .308 be fine with 2 lugs?
I want to be safe, but I just don't see the necessity of a Lug that doesn't even contact.
But if you guys are dead set on me keeping it, I will... for now.
it's not just the number of lugs, but also the size of the lug and the strength of each lug that matter also.
Thank you for posting this before you went and did something your parents will regret... (because you won't be around to regret it, you'll be dead)
We are TRYING to educate you, please listen carefully.
I'm going to go home now and look at my saiga 308 bolt and try to figure out exactly what you are up to. I will post again as soon as I get home.
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WTF, are you seriouse?
I have never seen another gun board where posters come up with so many retarded, unsafe ideas. referenced for further asshattery
http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showto...=30#entry263410
locking lugs are good, drugs are bad, Mkay?
But don't take the word of gunsmiths with decades of experience under their belt, you obviously stayed at a Motel 6 last night.
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I looked on surefire's web site, I can't find any contact info listed, just distributors...
anybody have that card, I threw mine away, pretty sure, when I got the mag.
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Do you know what the total cost of converting is? Where can I get the parts list? Not including what stock/pistol grip I go with
And once it's converted, using a pistol grip is ok with california laws right?
nope...
california = fail
you have to leave it standard configuration in cali.
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Shoot them an email,that was why they came out with a redesign on the followers.
What they told me was that they tried to get them to fit better but it got it all too tight.The new followers work excellent,I've replced mine already and run them through without any problems.
alrighty then, I'll do that.
Actually, the mag is kind of beat up, after getting wacked by the bullet tips, (in my panic), I am hoping I can send the whole mag in for replacement.
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that is almost as stupid (no offence) as grinding a feed ramp into the chamber area (to allow feeding of unmodified mags (or in leu of installing a proper feed ramp)
So what about factory guns with the chamber area ramped? I guess they all blew up too.
I played russian roulette and didn't die, so it must be safe, right?
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still waiting on headspace guage huh?
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It looks like your lost your rounded profile on your firing pin.
Did you remove the pin to modify your bolt face? If so How?
I am sure that this bolt face deformity is an attempt at making handloading as difficult as possible. Seems like the obvious thing to do in the Russian system.
I didn't remove the pin. I pulled on it with some needle nose pliers (from the backside) but couldn't get it to come out so I just left it.
The pin does seem like it has some extra space in their to move around near the bolt face. I don't know what to make of that.
Pardon my ignorance here. I too would be interested in not trashing good brass. But what about headspace? Will this grinding the ring flush not affect that?I didn't think so, because the outside of the brass still contacts the same area on the bolt face. My attempt was to stop that dimple from smashing the brass around the primer.
Hopefully I will get out Sunday to see if the M193 works consistently. I'm thinking its not going to. I pulled some bullets and powder out of some M193s last night and the firing pin didn't penetrate very deep into the primer when I "shot" them in my basement. I should take a pic of those cases and post that. Maybe the ammo oracle website has some info on hardened primers I can read about.
dude,
do you own headspeace gauges?
do you even know what headspace is?
You don't even know how to take apart the bolt, yet you think it's a good idea to go grinding on the part of your gun that holds in 50,000 psi of hot gas?
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I ground mine flush with a dremel. Simply because I reload and that wasting of smashed brass bothered me. I'm that cheap. I'm no gunsmith either,,,.
I ground the pin just below the face. I was getting occasional double taps/slam fires with reloads.
She doesn't shoot the 5.56 ammo consistently, it seems like the primer is dented enough but no fire. Does 5.56 spec have hardened primers?? It consistently shoots the 223 recipe reloads with small rifle primers, but not "factory 5.56" ammo consistently.
I seemed to have gained the ability to reload for it, but lost the ability to shoot 5.56 consistently.
this is why I keep recomending to not fuck with the geometry of your bolt face...
no one listens to me though.
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My personal advice is to avoid Wolf ammo. It has some seriously nasty fouling, and AK's, with that big gas tube, retain a lot more fouling than others. They're time-consuming enough to clean without it. S&B is good, cheap ammo that won't give you cleaning nightmares.
wait just a second!!!!!
you CLEAN your AK?????!?!?!
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saw one on gunbroker last year, just the front end, without trunion...
they didn't say where they got it, or why they wanted to get rid of it. It was a VERY heavy barrel.
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Has anyone used the 20rd Surefire mags? It seems that FBMG are a little hard to get right now. Was thinking about the Surefires but wanted further input on them.
TIA
Tread
after my life threatening ordeal with the surefire 25 rounder... I see some FBMG in my future... (think charging wild boar and a jamming surefire)
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as you load rounds into the mag, the top bullet tip gets farther and father down from start possition. I measured it from the feed ramp. after about 10 rounds the bullet tip is at or BELLOW the feed ramp
, unlike the factory mags, which go to max capacity without changing the bullet elevation. at higher loadings (like anything above 15) the bullet tips are well bellow the lip of the feed ramp. 
seems more like a failure in design to me.
the mag body is to wide in the middle, allowing the rounds to stack lower as more rounds are loaded.
surefire = fail
Locking Lugs.
in Saiga .308
Posted
I wasn't the one who called you a darwin canidate, I mearly reported what some other assholes said. I was more worried about your safety, and the safety of others (who either followed your lead or bought your gun after you modded it). THEIR advice was to let you go and do it, and make sure you got it on video tape.
And you were the one who posted your intention of ignoring our good advice.
I have looked at the lug in question, it does make contact. so you are wrong, sir.
I'll say it again, sorry I hurt your feelings. I was jsut tryign to wake you up, cause you were slipping. You can thank us for saving your life later.