santanatwo
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Posts posted by santanatwo
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like a lot of people, I'm sure I will be willing to spend a higher total of dollars the more reasonably priced the mags are.
example, if you are going to charge $80, a few people will buy one, I might even spring for one at that price....
but in that price range, your hanging out with the factory 8 rounders.at $60-70 many people will buy one, maybe two
but at $40-50 each EVERYBODY will be wanting 3 or 4
and get ready to make some seriouse dough... the dreaded "saiga 308 high capacity thread" ran some numbers, you're about to be sitting on a gold mine. Assuming you don't price them out of sight.At $40 you would have people basing their choice to buy a saiga 12 on the availability of your mags.
I'm not expecting you to under bid yoursell, I know you've got a lot of R&D and tooling costs involved (and labor). But remember PLEASE (I'm begging you) keep a reasonable price on these. at $40 I'd turn my wallet upside down and shake untill empty...
saiga 12s are being imported again, so the demand will only go up. And we've got at least two years before any ass hats get elected. some simple math
1000 mags X $40 = $40,000
At $40 I know you could sell a 1000 of these puppies in a month if you posted them on the auction sites www.auctionarms.com www.gunbroker.com www.ebay.com and if you got desperate, shotgun news...
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I have a few different AKs to trade.
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after sleeping on it, I think it would be best to just make a magazine body at this point.
I have a coupple mags to use as a pattern. I figure I'll just extend the mag a couple inches, so it'll hold bout 15 or 16 rounds, and use the original follower, floorplate and spring.
This is dependant on my ability to to talk the shop into making a small number, cheap enough for me to afford
if this works, I may decide to go further... baby stepsa... right?
Again, no promises... and nobody start asking for "I'll take this many"
I'll believe it when I see it too.....
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I'm not gona jerk anybody's chain, after the "thread that shall not be mentioned" I am sick of the bovine feces. ANd I am so pissed off, I'm actually MOTIVATED TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT... so I am thinking on talking to the local plastic injection molding shop... I'm good at mechanical design.... And a perfectionist.
well, this is theoretical right now, but the ball (almost) is rolling, and I'm trying to get a friend involved. I am not going to promise anything now, but I want them bad enough, and I can design a good product
. I know they would sell like hotcakes at $35 shipping included, each. Maybe I could get a hundered or so at first. I told my friend that we could sell 3,000 in a month....
But , if we do this, we will only be making 50 or a 100 at first. Actually, we'll only be making a few untill we know we have the design right.
I think we could get 100 done for pretty cheap, compared to how much they are worth. ANd unlike SOME people, if I make one of these, I will supply pictures, video of the range testing.... and whatever else... and they won't be for sale on ebay
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I'm posting on a saiga site, and after college I worked in a Lab for the USA Army's CBEAR It's an acronym, chemical, biological, explosive agent research.
Oh, and I play paintball on the weekends sometimes.
But I'm not a member or exmember of an extreamist militant group from overseas. Then ROPers (that's "Religion Of Peace) weren't exactly angels, they used to train for that stuff, with poeple who do bad things.
I, for one, am glad they nailed these guys. Maybe they were planning on pulling some shit here... you never know.
Did you know that one in ten illegals coming from mexico is a "OTM" that is "Other Than Mexican"
They have busted packs (up to 50 people) of 18-35 year old arab men, dressed in clean mexican style cloths and hair cuts, not able to speak a lick of mexican. What are large numbers of arab males, rich, coming across the boarder in droves.
ANd the boarder patrol is a joke. SO, heads up guys.
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to get a visa to visit certtain countries (including the USA) it asks
form DS-157
question number 14
"Do You Have Any Specialized Skills or Training, including Firearms, Explosive, Nuclear, Biological, or Chemical Experience?
YES
NO
IF yes, Please Explain.
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I'll be needing one soon as I can scrape together the money, so don't go and sell out on me.
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well, I put a 3x9 simmons on it, and took it to the range. Boy that sucker kicks! There is absolutely no heat transfered to the foregrip. I fired some rapid fire, fromt eh hip, everything is still rock solid. Looking at balistics, you wouldn't think a 308 is THAT much more powerful than a 7.62 X39... but it sure feels like it. Oh, and getting towards dark, the muzzle flash is blinding.
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cool, I just figured out how to use this site's picture upload!!!
And I think I may re-enforce the setup in a place or two, eventually... for now, I'm happy with it.
Now to go test fire
I haven't even tested my tapco TG after the conversion.
I can already tell it needs a little polishing though, it doesn't return all the way if you just touch the trigger a little. and it's rough.
it IS light though.
Oh, ad a bonus of the "heat shied" is that it won't transfer much heat to your hand, since it isn't hooked up to a heat sink in the front.
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this thread is useless without pictures... huh?
ok ok, I was just building the suspence a little....
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Well, here it is, after sitting around LOOKING at my saiga 308 pistol grip conversion without a foregrip for 4 months ,trying to decide what to do with it that would be "cool".....
Last night I get the idea to modify a AMD 65 metal foregrip to stay on there. Well, I welded a peice of metal to the grip so it stuck into the receiver and bolts on were the original wood grip bolted on. I messed up a little, and let my drill walk a bit. So the hole is off center, but it is still SOLID. I mean, this thing doesn't even move.
I try to yank on it, to make it move, and it is amazingly solid. So I looked at it for hours, trying to figure out what to put onthe front. after a modified AMD retainer failed.. I realized, this sucker is solid and doesn't move anyways. And....
it is FREE FLOAT!!!
I have thought about a pistol grip, it has the hole already there.
But for now it has a tapco FCG, USA wood grip and USA woodstock, (wood is covered in truck bed liner). On the modified foregrip, I used spray on ceramic high temp paint, cured in the oven for 1.5 hours at 500 F
It took several hours to accept the lack of a retainer, but I am convinced it is solid enough to not need it. it fits up in the reciever extreamly snug, it can NOT move upwards, and it is difficult to make it move down at all. twisting on it hard only produces a very slight torsion motion. and it is like a spring anyways.
I think a front pistol grip might be to much stress on the setup, but it looks cool to me, just the way it is.
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well, according to the research I did, there were apparently some mak-90s imported with compensators NOT permanently attached, and some were welded on (seems a bit random) Mine is not welded on, like I said, it is all hard chromed, (a very flat finish?) the muzzle break is easy to take off, just a few twists. So, I am probably legal here, I mean, it was imported from the factory like this...
The story I hear on my chrome mak, is that it was a police department's custom ordered rifle (100% factory hard chrome) but I have no written data to back this claim (nore have I even found reference to ANY hard chrome ak in lots of searching) , and after a few years the police dept got rid of them. Which leaves me wondering, is it legal for a civilian? Or is this one of those that made it in without a permanently attached MB..? I would think it IS legal for civilian use, since if it was getting around any laws by being "for police issue", why the heck would they put the horribly uncomfortable thumbhole stock on it?
ok, so thanks for the help,
if it came with a thumbhole it's ok to switch thumbholes.
if it came with a "sporting" buttstock (SAIGA) then thumbholes are considered pistol grips.. sounds "reasonable"....
choat is only about $45 including foregrip
which takes care of 3 parts technicaly (pistol grip, buttstock, foregrip)I found a local supplier of tapco trigger groups for $31.. is that a steal or WHAT?!?!?
Anyways, where does that put the late 2004 SAR thumbhole imports?
please do go on, RDSWriter 
...I'll be here all week... 
If it's got a thumbhole in its original. imported configuration you can replace it with another thumbhole. If it didn't have one (in the case of Saigas) then, most likely, you can't add one unless you remove enough imported parts.But - in the case of the Saigas - if you want to put a thumbhole on your rifle, you have to move the firecontrol parts and purchase new parts anyway. So if you use US FCG parts and a US thumbhole... you've just removed the firearm from needing to comply with 922r because you have 10 or less imported parts.
I could talk about this topic for hours because there are numerous inconsistencies as to when/how the ATF allowed thumbholes on rifles. THINK ABOUT IT.. they now consider thumbholes to have a 'pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action.' Based on this logic you should be able to replace a thumbhole with a standard pistol grip because the firearm already has one... but that's not the case. So apparently there is some difference that they have never publicly communicated. Additionally the same rifle, imported at two different points in time can fall under differing rules. The thumbhole crap is one of the most confusing areas of clauses 922 and 925. Just stick by the rule in the first paragraph of this and you'll be fine.
As for the threads under the nut, don't worry about them if the nut is still welded on. A ton of older imports had nuts welded on the barrel or sight to cover the threads. Specifically the Romanian 7.62x39 ROMAK AK series and the Springfield Armory (import) SAR8s come to mind. The weld jobs are a joke and can be easily removed (legally) if you remove enough imported parts.
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I believe it was last year when the ATF tripped on century for some reason, and made them start putting wood thumbhole stocks on their SAR rifles
I don't know why exactly, but I am assuming something to do with the import ban.
I saw a few in gun stores soon afterwards. I never found out the details about it. I am just assuming it was import ban related.. or maybe they didn't have enough US parts?
or maybe it was because they took high cap magazines?
I would like to forget about all this legal stuff, but I just got a 100% hard chrome MAK-90 (original thumbhole stock), and I just noticed it has a threaded muzzle under that hardchrome muzzle break... I would replace the TG and stock, but all the internals are chrome too
it's got the thumbhole stock on it, but I'm worried about the threaded barrle under that "non-permanently attached" muzzle break, and I'm worried about if a dragonov stock would be illegal (choat style, not fiberfoce) and that got me thinking, about all these conversion we do on saigas... and if a thumbhole is STILL sporting... because that could save a lot of people a fair amount of money Which SARs are you referring to? Pre-99 receivers... they are grandfathered. With regards to requiring everyone to add parts, they won't force retrofitting. For more info on this topic read the thread in the 7.62x39 froum entitled "30 round mag, stock rifle = illegal right"With regards to the 308 mags... if you want to insert one in your rifle I'm not sure if you would have to add other US parts due to the way 925(d)(3) specifies the magazines. (once again refer to the previous forum)
On the bonus side of the hi cap 308 mag saga... it's 3 US parts.. so you need to replace only one imported part with a US part for a PG conversion... I think. (I'll be asking how many imported parts on the 308 board in just a minute). If you use the US magazine parts for US count in a PG conversion, jJust make sure to sell your 8-rounders. Why? Because if the 8s only fit in your rifles that require US magazine parts to be 922(r.) compliant, you may find yourself in 922(r.) violation due to the "Constructive Intent" regs of ATF.
Confused enough? if yes, just repace enough US parts on the firearm itself and forget all this stuff.
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well, I know the new SAR imports had to be retrofited with thumbhole stocks, it's a rifle that can accept high capacity magazines. For whatever that's worth... Anybody remember seeing a newer sar with the thumbhole?
Also, after these 20 rnd saiga 308 magazines get produced, we may ALL have to put in USA parts, even with a normal stock because..... dum dum dum!!!!! "that has the ability to accept high capacity magazines" is also in the "sporting use" clause.
or am I seeing double again from to much lawyer reading?
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ok, so I've been up late reading legal text, again. I have come to the point where I THINK that it MIGHT be legal to do a saiga conversion (move the trigger) , but use a thumbhole stock WITHOUT using other USA made parts.
There seems to be some confusion about this, because the (now expired) AWB stated that thumbhole stocks are considered "pistol grip" (therefor BAD).
However, the 1990 IMPORT BAN stated that thumbhole stocks were "sporting" and therefor legal for import, and that is why some AKs (and other rifles) made it into the country with thumbhole stocks.
So, here is the important question,... Does a thumbhole stock still make a semi-auto rifle into a "sporting" configuration, legal for import (or assembly)?
Or did the ATF change the deffinition of "sporting" to exclude thumbhole stocks?
If I am correct in this, it means we can use the dragunov style stocks for our saiga (and other AK variant) convertions, AND NOT WORRY ABOUT FORIEGN PARTS COUNT.
Which would save a ton of money (if you are willing to "make do" with a thumbhole stock)
I (for one) would rather save the extra $100 ( tg, md, piston, stocks, etc....)
just buy a choate machine tool dragunov Mak-90 stock set (comes with foregrip) for only $45 or a fiberforce (sux IMHO) for $55
what do the other hobby lawyers think? (or know)
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I have a brand new wood set (Buttstock and Fore grip) that I won't be needing, since I will be doing a pistol grip conversion. I will sell it to you immediately. I just got the gun this weekend, so it is in perfect condition. Monte Carlo, thick rubber pad, etc. It's beautiful, but I have a hankering for a pistol grip and folding stock
PM or send an email to me if you are still interested, and we can work something out.
Woot!! 10rd mags almost done!
in Saiga-12
Posted
man, I wasn't going to say it, but since two people have already... +1
A reasonable limit would keep self appointed middle men from gouging everybody else.
Maybe with an exception for verified sandbox warriors.
say 10 for laymen, 20 for sand boxers?
The producer should profit, not middle men on E-Gay