kyro74
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Posts posted by kyro74
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If it broke and it was $30 then it was, without a doubt, a Chinese knockoff. They are nearly identical looking and are sold at gun shows as the real deal but they are not. I have three real ones, they are solid as a brick sh!thouse and would most likely be the last thing to fail on my gun.
Here is a video on how to tell them apart:
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If I am not mistaken, the steel is not mixed with lead (lead is already among the cheapest metals) but ferrous iron or steel mixed with the copper jacket to keep costs down (copper prices are quite high). This is called a bi-metal jacket. You will sometimes see this in the description for any of the new Russian import stuff. Wolf, Barnaul, etc.
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I just wanted to add a public "Thank You" to this thread. Sunnybean sent out the magazine at his cost and would not even let me pay for shipping! It is rare to come across somebody that is as generous and selfless as sunnybean and I just wanted to say thanks. I also wanted to make sure that if anybody searches sunnybean in the future to find out what kind of guy he is before doing business with him, he is most definitely one of the good guys.
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I didn't mean to give the impression that our state is a sad place. There is a lot going for it in the natural beauty and history as well as the weather. I have literally been all over the world and have yet to see a place as beautiful as Yosemite National Park (I camp there every year). My dislike for this state comes entirely from the ridiculous laws that we must endure. Our gun laws are completely nonsensical and do nothing to deter crime, only deter upstanding citizens and businesses from bothering to deal with the subject of guns. We are completely overrun with illegal aliens here in southern California, not from the standpoint of race but from an economic perspective. EVERYTHING that tax money pays for is compromised when such a large percentage of the residents don't pay a cent in taxes. The rest of us law abiding types must pay the way for illegal aliens to use our schools, medical facilities, roads, jails, welfare, social programs, parks...you get the idea. What this means is that we are quite literally the highest taxed people in the nation. These two factors make it a tough state to live in. It is a wonderful place to visit, but when you are averaging 5-10 MPH on the freeways during rush hour every night, and a 25 mile trip takes two hours with determined consistency (91 freeway), you begin to wonder if something better doesn't exist.
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Sorry, got tied up for a few. Jax, I think you're the first one that qualifies. Shoot me your addy.
I certainly will. Thank you so much for this act of kindness. I vow to use this in my own Saiga and to never resell it. It certainly sucks that we are coming under more and more draconian laws here in California. I only hope that we can be an example of what happens when rights are systematically removed from citizens. Our state is billions in defecit every year and getting worse. We are circling the drain without a doubt. I hope other states learn from our inept legislature and do not make the same mistakes.
Thanks for your very generous gesture sunnybean, I hope I can find a good way to pay it forward to another very soon.
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I am stuck in the People's Republic of Kalifornia and would love to have this magazine. If it hasn't been spoken for, I'll take it with great appreciation.
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My idea of a Saiga conversion was a little tongue in cheek humor. I really like my 7.62 X 39 20" BBL "AS Is" so my conversion would be a total one to the Springfield Armory Match M1A.
Converting my Saiga would still leave me with a Saiga.
Ahh, I thought that might be what you meant but thought maybe I was missing something. Why not make it an Accuracy International, a Tikka, or a Barrett? All of those rifles are exponentially more expensive than the Saiga also, and all are arguably better rifles too. I would love a Springfield M1A but the $2000 is a tough pill to swallow right now. Maybe someday...
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Nice, you should try to get a pic of the whole family of OD green soldiers. Did you do any prep work to the rail or did you just spray it? I really like how just the inside is painted and the actual rails are still black.
Thanks, I will try to take some pics tomorrow. I used denatured alcohol to clean the rail before spraying to make sure that there was no grease or oils present. I masked the areas that I wanted to keep black and then just sprayed it.
How much does it weigh?
With a full ten round magazine it weighs just under nine pounds.
So your idea of a Saiga conversion (as stated in the thread title) is an M1A national match rifle? Oooooohkay, you lost me there. It's a nice rifle but I don't get how it's a Saiga conversion.
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Nice build. I almost went with the Bushnell (Trophy?) red dot, but was concerned about the added weight. Instead, I decided on this:
http://www.smokewagongear.com/p-717-millett-sp-2-redot-30mm-5min-blk.aspx
with a UTG Double Siderail Mount.
When I bought the red dot in April, it was $69.99! I consider it a great value, gives good balance to the rifle, and it improves my accuracy with follow-up shots on the range.
How do you like your Bushnell?
Yea, that Millet red dot gets great reviews, nice choice. I love the Bushnell that I got for a lot of reasons. My purpose of use for this rifle is in a SHTF scenario. I like the T-dot reticle for the ease of target acquisition and the optics are crystal clear. I like the adjustable brightness and color of the reticle and it holds a rock solid zero. Finally, this thing may be heavier than some alternatives but it is built like a tank. I haven't tried it but I am reasonably certain that I could drop the rifle from shoulder height onto the optic and it would not even notice. I just wanted something built AK tough and I feel like I found it.
I'm not a fan of OD green anything..........but I gotta say, it looks great on your gun.
I have always liked the "military" look of OD green, so I was willing to try it out on this build. I am stoked with how it turned out. Thanks for the compliment. By the way, I just did my Remington 870 in the same color scheme too.
For anyone wondering how much DuraCoat to buy, here's a tip: I have done my Saiga and Glock (as pictured), my Remington 870, and a survival knife and kydex sheath with the OD green Duracoat and have used about two ounces out of my four ounce bottle. A little of this stuff goes a very long way.
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I still don't get why there is this hate for UTG. Isn't this a piece of aluminum with rails that screws onto the front to hold accessories? I can see it as a potential alternative to the UTG rail if you need another part for your 922r count or you don't like the length of the UTG rail, but this will need a handguard retainer or else it will only be held in place by friction on the gas tube (which will also need to be replaced). The first time you shoot your rifle without a handguard retainer this rail system will most definitely move forward. So your $80 (on sale) part will cost about $200 when all is said and done. I am completely happy with my UTG rail. It fits precisely and is rock solid. Otherwise, it is nice to see another option out there.
There is a huge thread about this, I'll sum it up for you:
If you're an American and you buy a Chinese made product over a comparable American made product, you're basically selling out to Communism. This goes doubly for people who claim to be Republicans and/or Right-Wing (with the exception of possibly purist Libertarians) AND infinitely so for people who claim to be Patriots. The biggest fraud is seeing cars parked at Walmart (where nearly 95% of the products are made in China) with McCain/Palin, Pro-American, and/or Troop Support bumper stickers; one can say they support all of that, but they sell out all of their beliefs when they turn around and shop there.
It drives me up the wall every time people say, go buy some Winchester ammo at Walmart, every time, I think.. "Get a fucking clue, for Christ's sake!"
If I saw two pair of boots the first costing $100 and Made in China, the second costing $300 and Made in the USA, even if they looked the same, I'd pay the extra for my money to stay in my country. The reasons behind this are: 1. the product made in the USA is more likely to be of higher quality, I've seen it time and time again, 2. more of the money stays in the country and possibly my state, 3. the support is better if I have questions about the product, I can call the company and generally talk to an American, not "Heeloo mai neem is Roobert Smiiith, hoow mei ei elp yoo todee?", 4. many many other reasons, which I don't feel like going over again and again.
Buy American products or go get a Chinese flag and wave that!
Bingo. I agree with all of that except I don't think you need to be a right-winger to want to buy American. I am probably the most leftist guy you'll meet (on a gun board anyway) and I try to stay clear of products made by slave labor.
Hell, since we are talking about rails we really should be talking about Ultimak (produced here in my native Moscow, Idaho), and not the UTG crap that does not allow co-witness. I have the same issues with Midwest Industries new rail, but at least they are made here stateside (also they are a heck of a lot better designed than the UTG crap).
UGH, this again? BigSal, we get it, you don't like the UTG rail. But the hypocrisy of demanding "buy American" for a foreign rifle is baffling. I support local businesses, all sell things that are made overseas. It is the state of the world today. To say that anything that was not manufactured in the USA is made by slave labor is incredibly ignorant. I am not sure if you have ever been anywhere else, but people that have never traveled outside of the United States have a very skewed view of reality as it pertains to the rest of the world. You should go through your house and remove everything that wasn't made in the USA from USA manufactured parts from USA native raw materials in which no money from your purchase has gone to a foreign company or its subsidiary. Your house will be empty.
Find me one, just one, UTG owner that has anything bad to say. I did tons of research and could not come up with anything but people like you that just hated it to hate it. The truth is that it is the ONLY option for a Saiga specific front rail system (metal) that is below $200 (I paid $79.00). A POSP mounted via the side mount will still allow for the use of ironsights with the UTG installed. Why this undying obsession for the Ultimak co-witness? I could not care less because I think the side rail mount is a superior option for mounting optics. The rail system in this thread looks good and is a somewhat reasonable option to someone that wants a FHG/Quad Rail setup. It needs some extra work since it is NOT Saiga specific, and it will cost about double what the UTG costs. But as an option, it seems like it may work
I am not trying to call you out bro, because I know your new to guns, but I don't think you know what co-witness means if you think it can be achieved with a side-mounted POSP scope.
I am well aware of what co-witness means. It means being able to see your iron sights through your non-magnified red dot optic so, in case of battery failure, you can still use the irons without having to remove the optic. The same effect can be achieved by simply lowering your sight line by 1/2" to see your irons below a POSP or a you do the same by looking below standard height side mount to weaver mount from Kalinka. You go on and on about being able to cowitness with an ultimak, my point is that most people don't really care. You are limited to a scout style mount and a very narrow selection of optics for it to work correctly. The worst case is you use the "quick" aspect of the quick release side mount and ditch the optic. The irons can be used with the UTG quad rail.
I suspect that you understood exactly what I was saying but had no response to any of the points that I had brought up with you so you just threw up something and hoped that it might make you look like you had any idea what you were talking about.
Not trying to call you out though bro, I know you're new to guns.
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By the looks of the instructions there are legs sticking up for the screws to mount into. Doesn't look like you can use one or the other, need both to stay on.
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I saw that thread. I think I am going to take imarangemaster's advice and dimple the FSB.
That would be a good idea IMO. The other reason I brought that up is to demonstrate the real forces at work with recoil. Your choice to go with the handguard retainer and the gas tube with the retainer should go a long way in helping to make sure that your rail doesn't move forward. Without those I think it wouldn't look nearly as good and, like I said before, would probably effect the ability of the HG to hold zero. Great work.
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I still don't get why there is this hate for UTG. Isn't this a piece of aluminum with rails that screws onto the front to hold accessories? I can see it as a potential alternative to the UTG rail if you need another part for your 922r count or you don't like the length of the UTG rail, but this will need a handguard retainer or else it will only be held in place by friction on the gas tube (which will also need to be replaced). The first time you shoot your rifle without a handguard retainer this rail system will most definitely move forward. So your $80 (on sale) part will cost about $200 when all is said and done. I am completely happy with my UTG rail. It fits precisely and is rock solid. Otherwise, it is nice to see another option out there.
There is a huge thread about this, I'll sum it up for you:
If you're an American and you buy a Chinese made product over a comparable American made product, you're basically selling out to Communism. This goes doubly for people who claim to be Republicans and/or Right-Wing (with the exception of possibly purist Libertarians) AND infinitely so for people who claim to be Patriots. The biggest fraud is seeing cars parked at Walmart (where nearly 95% of the products are made in China) with McCain/Palin, Pro-American, and/or Troop Support bumper stickers; one can say they support all of that, but they sell out all of their beliefs when they turn around and shop there.
It drives me up the wall every time people say, go buy some Winchester ammo at Walmart, every time, I think.. "Get a fucking clue, for Christ's sake!"
If I saw two pair of boots the first costing $100 and Made in China, the second costing $300 and Made in the USA, even if they looked the same, I'd pay the extra for my money to stay in my country. The reasons behind this are: 1. the product made in the USA is more likely to be of higher quality, I've seen it time and time again, 2. more of the money stays in the country and possibly my state, 3. the support is better if I have questions about the product, I can call the company and generally talk to an American, not "Heeloo mai neem is Roobert Smiiith, hoow mei ei elp yoo todee?", 4. many many other reasons, which I don't feel like going over again and again.
Buy American products or go get a Chinese flag and wave that!
Bingo. I agree with all of that except I don't think you need to be a right-winger to want to buy American. I am probably the most leftist guy you'll meet (on a gun board anyway) and I try to stay clear of products made by slave labor.
Hell, since we are talking about rails we really should be talking about Ultimak (produced here in my native Moscow, Idaho), and not the UTG crap that does not allow co-witness. I have the same issues with Midwest Industries new rail, but at least they are made here stateside (also they are a heck of a lot better designed than the UTG crap).
UGH, this again? BigSal, we get it, you don't like the UTG rail. But the hypocrisy of demanding "buy American" for a foreign rifle is baffling. I support local businesses, all sell things that are made overseas. It is the state of the world today. To say that anything that was not manufactured in the USA is made by slave labor is incredibly ignorant. I am not sure if you have ever been anywhere else, but people that have never traveled outside of the United States have a very skewed view of reality as it pertains to the rest of the world. You should go through your house and remove everything that wasn't made in the USA from USA manufactured parts from USA native raw materials in which no money from your purchase has gone to a foreign company or its subsidiary. Your house will be empty.
Find me one, just one, UTG owner that has anything bad to say. I did tons of research and could not come up with anything but people like you that just hated it to hate it. The truth is that it is the ONLY option for a Saiga specific front rail system (metal) that is below $200 (I paid $79.00). A POSP mounted via the side mount will still allow for the use of ironsights with the UTG installed. Why this undying obsession for the Ultimak co-witness? I could not care less because I think the side rail mount is a superior option for mounting optics. The rail system in this thread looks good and is a somewhat reasonable option to someone that wants a FHG/Quad Rail setup. It needs some extra work since it is NOT Saiga specific, and it will cost about double what the UTG costs. But as an option, it seems like it may work
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Looks good. I think you made the right call with the handguard retainer for both looks and function. I don't know if you saw the thread about the muzzle break that left drag marks on the barrel from recoil. I would want the added security of the retainer to keep it from working its way forward when firing. Is that a new gas tube or did you remove the shroud?
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Any non-Saiga-specific AK furniture may need some "finessing" to work on a Saiga. Personally, I don't think that's a shortcoming.......although my use of the word "perfect" may have been a little greedy. Either way, all of these gorgeous Saigas posted all over this forum, with regular AK furniture all needed a little "finessing" to install on a Saiga.
But I'll guess we'll just leave it at "To each his own". Because that's what it really comes down to.
I'm not going to gain or lose anything from what you decide to put on your gun, and vice versa about what I put on my gun.
(Moe, be sure to post your thoughts on the rail when you get it..........and some pics!)
I couldn't agree more man. That was my only real problem with this rail was that some may have read the thread and thought it was a drop in replacement. It needs additional work and an extra part but the end result will be a very nice looking (and hopefully functional) rail system. As long as people know what they are getting into before they drop their hard earned cash, I say to go for it. I really like the look of the pictures posted on the AK. Hopefully someone will come up with a better alternative to a front HG retainer to really get the full use and looks out of this new rail.
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22_Shooter, I am in complete agreement with you on all of your points. To each his own. If you don't like the UTG rail, it is nice to see some other options start to hit the market. I just dont see this one as being the perfect solution yet. And, yes, some Hondas are made in the US.
vbrtmn, It is clear that you are just don't have the capacity to form any sort of genuine response to what could be a worthwhile debate, incapable of forming an informed position on anything. Further communism by buying the only rail made for an already foreign rifle that costs less than $200? If you say so. I do notice that you offer no response to any of the points that I bring up. Not surprising. Blind propaganda spewers like you really rarely are able to offer any substantial debate. Childish name calling and cursing and swearing are the extent of your rhetorical repetiore. You just jump on something that you think makes you appear to be patriotic and are not even able to support your stance. There is no chance of having any sort of constructive debate on the merits of this subject with you.
The real subject of this thread is that the rail LOOKS very cool. It clearly is not ideal for Saigas and will need more finesse to make it work but if someone is willing to take the steps, I think it will make for a very nice looking front end. I do still think that a front HG retainer will be necessary for looks as well as function. But like I said before, it is nice to see some options. I hope it works out.
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Then why do you own a Saiga? It is made in Russia. You should buy an AR platform or you are a communist by your warped logic. Go buy a Russian flag and wave that. You have to admit that it is a bit hypocritical to lecture people to only buy American on a forum dedicated to foreign made rifles. I assume that absolutely nothing in your home has any foreign made components? Or do you buy the best product for the price point that you are willing to spend?
Wow, we've got another one here... How the fuck do you know what I own? Have I listed any guns here, no, get a fucking clue.
Read the fucking post, I said, if I can buy a comparable American product I always do, even if I had to pay more for it. I never said, "I own all American things." I guess if you knew how to read you would have figured that one out.... I shouldn't expect too much.
Buy what ever you want, why not just move to China seems like it may be a better place for you.
99.9% of stuff you can buy that is American made a foreign distributers also makes. A lot of American companies contract outside countrys for there customer service, service. Bottom line it is cheaper for American companies to contract outside countries for some part of their bussiness. Hardley anything these days from companies are 100% American made or that the company is 100% american ran.
100% true. It is called capitalism and the free market. It is the difference between the educated person that understands economics as it pertains to America in the global market and the ignorant jagoff that just parrots "Get outta mah country" while spouting off racist stereotypes.
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Then why do you own a Saiga? It is made in Russia. You should buy an AR platform or you are a communist by your warped logic. Go buy a Russian flag and wave that. You have to admit that it is a bit hypocritical to lecture people to only buy American on a forum dedicated to foreign made rifles. I assume that absolutely nothing in your home has any foreign made components? Or do you buy the best product for the price point that you are willing to spend?
Wow, we've got another one here... How the fuck do you know what I own? Have I listed any guns here, no, get a fucking clue.
Read the fucking post, I said, if I can buy a comparable American product I always do, even if I had to pay more for it. I never said, "I own all American things." I guess if you knew how to read you would have figured that one out.... I shouldn't expect too much.
Buy what ever you want, why not just move to China seems like it may be a better place for you.
So you just lurk on a foreign made rifle forum and have over a thousand posts about a rifle that you don't own just to chime in and flame posters? I seriously doubt it. Regardless, the point remains the same. Saiga is a foreign made rifle. You are lecturing about the necessity to buy strictly American accessories for a foreign rifle! It is like getting on your buy American soapbox to buy a US made hood for your Honda. The very idea of telling someone to learn how to read on a written medium like a forum is so laughably stupid that I can offer no response. The argument of the weak minded is to just curse and swear and say to just move to (fill in the blank).
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So should I wait for prices to come down or is that not going to happen, I should buy now?
Can you see the future of the prices of guns? If so, please list all guns which are going to increase in value
Honestly, who knows what's going to happen with the prices; if you can afford the rifle in your current budget and you will get good use out of it, just get it... $350 sounds like a fair price to me. Please buy from one of our sponsors.
I completely agree. I bought mine at what was a steal at the time-$379 plus $25 shipping. I have no regrets because I feel that the rifle is worth more. If you want it and can afford it, then it is worth it to you. Speculation will always leave you guessing and without a rifle.
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I should add that I have not been able to locate a truly viable alternative to the UTG rail for the Saiga. If there were one, I would favor an American alternative at a similar price point. Everything on my conversion beside the UTG rail IS American made. But to deny competition goes against free market capitalist principles.
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I still don't get why there is this hate for UTG. Isn't this a piece of aluminum with rails that screws onto the front to hold accessories? I can see it as a potential alternative to the UTG rail if you need another part for your 922r count or you don't like the length of the UTG rail, but this will need a handguard retainer or else it will only be held in place by friction on the gas tube (which will also need to be replaced). The first time you shoot your rifle without a handguard retainer this rail system will most definitely move forward. So your $80 (on sale) part will cost about $200 when all is said and done. I am completely happy with my UTG rail. It fits precisely and is rock solid. Otherwise, it is nice to see another option out there.
There is a huge thread about this, I'll sum it up for you:
If you're an American and you buy a Chinese made product over a comparable American made product, you're basically selling out to Communism. This goes doubly for people who claim to be Republicans and/or Right-Wing (with the exception of possibly purist Libertarians) AND infinitely so for people who claim to be Patriots. The biggest fraud is seeing cars parked at Walmart (where nearly 95% of the products are made in China) with McCain/Palin, Pro-American, and/or Troop Support bumper stickers; one can say they support all of that, but they sell out all of their beliefs when they turn around and shop there.
It drives me up the wall every time people say, go buy some Winchester ammo at Walmart, every time, I think.. "Get a fucking clue, for Christ's sake!"
If I saw two pair of boots the first costing $100 and Made in China, the second costing $300 and Made in the USA, even if they looked the same, I'd pay the extra for my money to stay in my country. The reasons behind this are: 1. the product made in the USA is more likely to be of higher quality, I've seen it time and time again, 2. more of the money stays in the country and possibly my state, 3. the support is better if I have questions about the product, I can call the company and generally talk to an American, not "Heeloo mai neem is Roobert Smiiith, hoow mei ei elp yoo todee?", 4. many many other reasons, which I don't feel like going over again and again.
Buy American products or go get a Chinese flag and wave that!
Then why do you own a Saiga? It is made in Russia. You should buy an AR platform or you are a communist by your warped logic. Go buy a Russian flag and wave that. You have to admit that it is a bit hypocritical to lecture people to only buy American on a forum dedicated to foreign made rifles. I assume that absolutely nothing in your home has any foreign made components? Or do you buy the best product for the price point that you are willing to spend?
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I agree that I am making negative assumptions for something I haven't ever handled. Much like you make positive assumptions for something you don't have and haven't handled. I am able to understand basic principles of physics and grasp that basic metal on metal friction will be insufficient to counter the jarring forces of recoil. I do not disagree that it can be made to fit on a Saiga with some work and extra expense. To say it is PERFECT for a Saiga is a huge stretch. Since you say "coughfuckUTGcough" in your header, do you own a UTG Saiga rail or are you making assumptions? Because I have never been able to find a negative review from a UTG Saiga owner.
I do not intend to be confrontational, I just do not want to see a bunch of people potentially waste their money on something that may not meet their expectations.
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Right, that is correct, this won't NEED a handguard retainer to stay on the barrel. It WILL require a new or modified gas tube and WILL have an open front end. The only thing keeping it in place on the barrel will be friction of metal to metal contact. Every time you fire, the gun has a sudden force applied to it that causes it to move backward. This is recoil. An object at rest will want to stay at rest. There is nothing to physically hold this rail from moving forward except friction. It WILL move forward eventually without something to keep it in place. Friction will not be enough with the recoil trying to hammer the barrel back from within the rail. Add the fact that the barrel flexes as the bullet exits and it is nearly a certainty.
I wouldn't exactly say perfect for Saigas. I might be persuaded to believe that it would be acceptable for a movie prop gun as long as it was not fired and was only photographed from the side or the rear.
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I only base my speculation on the given photos of the attachment method. It shows a screw in clamp on the under side of the gas tube area as well as a molded contact point for the upper gas tube. That, coupled with the open front design leads me to reasonably believe that nothing else holds this system in place. Not to mention the looks of the unit when mounted. It also clearly shows a snug mount on three different non-shrouded gas tubes (non-Saiga gas tubes), that is why I say that you will either need to alter your factory gas tube by removing the shroud or buy a new one.
New saiga 7.62x39
in Saiga 7.62 X 39
Posted
Not to heap on here at all but I LOL'ed at the pistol with the end of the grip wrapped. It's like "Where did that pistol go? I can't see it because it's camoflouge!"