Casp
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Posts posted by Casp
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GREEN is the striker and cocking knob
RED is the sear
BLUE is the trigger (duh)
BROWN is the spring for the sear and magazine catch
That should give you an idea of how the thing works. The problem is that the trigger has no return spring, nor any take-up adjustment; it just hangs there doing whatever whatever it pleases. Dunno about on the Ishapore rifles or the SMLE No.1 Mk.3, but on the No.4 Mk.1 the trigger is pinned to the trigger guard (as shown in the pic/diagram) while on the No.4 Mk.2 it's pinned to the receiver.
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On a related note, I want a rifled-bore Saiga-12 or -20 because WA state doesn't allow SBS's but does allow DDs. Sounds like something I'm going to have to deal with on my own though.
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You answered your own question here, shotguns do not use metallic cartridges with slugs.....
I think that's a matter of semantics that not even the ATF is particularly concerned with. Most shotshells still have a metallic base and before they were plastic all shotshells were paper, and before that they were all full-brass. The progression of different materials has more to do with reducing the cost of manufacture than anything else, and it has also been done (albeit rather poorly) with centerfire rifle and pistol cartridges. Point being, it's too difficult to try to make a distinction between what constitutes a shotshell and what constitutes a rifle/pistol cartridge (not that I put it past the ATF to try, but to my knowledge they haven't yet.) For instance, if you tried to define a shotshell as any fixed ammunition with the projectile telescoped inside the case, then the .32 Nagant revolver round would be legally a shotshell. Ammo is ammo. If it were really a concern, then the ATF would have something much, much different to say about the Judge.
Edit: in fact I have one of these plastic-hull .223 fired cases (gray hull) sitting in front of me right now.
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Yep, Enfield trigger wiggle is normal, at least on every single No.4 I've handled including the two I owned.
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Nope no spam. i'm a bit new to Saiga's i have been toying with the idea of either a .223 or 12guage. i mainly deal with AR15's and Glocks. what brought me here to begin with was a saiga 12 then i heard about a ar15 mag conversion for the saiga .223. so now i'm thinking about that if i can find one cheap enough. as for the very few words thing if something is not worth saying it probably isn't, so i read and comment as necessary as i do not own a saiga yet there is very little for me to comment on.
No worries. I've been registered here for almost 5 years, and have never own an AK of any kind!
I spend most of my time here trying to convince people that the AR-15 isn't crap; I think I've converted maybe two or three people... 
Anyway, welcome!-
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Warning: I am not a lawyer, so if you decide to take my word as sound legal advice and wind up in court, tough luck. Also, this shit is confusing, so take notes.
It has to do not only with the presence of rifling but also with bore size and barrel length.
For future reference, Title I means you can buy it over-the-counter at your local gun shop, and Title II means it's an NFA weapon subject to months of waiting and the dreaded $200 black stamp.
Anything larger than .50 caliber qualifies as a Title II "Destructive Device," unless the BATFE decides that a particular weapon has a legitimate "sporting purpose." This is why certain conventional 12 gauge shotguns (Armsel Striker-12, Cobray Street Sweeper, Daewoo USAS-12) are considered Destructive Devices; all other shotguns are generally considered to be sporting-exempt, whether or not they have a rifled barrel. Some big-bore hunting rifles are also considered sporting exempt, such as the .577 Nitro Express.
A Title I rifled long gun, as defined by having a rifled bore, must have a barrel longer than 16", while a Title I shotgun as defined by having a smooth bore must have a barrel over 18" long. Both are required to be over 26" over-all. If the weapon has a folding stock, the over-all length is measured with the stock fully extended, as precedented by the Uzi semiautomatic carbine which is only 24" with the metal type E buttstock installed and folded. If the weapon has a detachable buttstock, such as some Thompson semiautomatic carbines, it must still be over 26" over-all with the buttstock removed.
If a rifled bore weapon is shorter than the above listed dimensions (16" barrel), and does not and never has had a buttstock and cannot accept a detachable buttstock (with a few certain exceptions), it is considered a Title I handgun. If it does have a buttstock, it is considered a Title II Short Barreled Rifle.
If a smooth bore weapon is shorter than the above listed dimensions (18" barrel), and does not and never has had a buttstock and cannot accept a detachable buttstock, it is considered a Title II "Any Other Weapon" (god is that a bullshit designation.) If it does have a buttstock, it is considered a Title II Short Barreled Shotgun.
A .410 shotgun is subject to all the rules and limitations of a Title I rifle or handgun if the barrel is rifled. This is how Taurus gets away with the Judge revolver; it takes a shotgun shell, but it's smaller than .50 cal and has a rifled bore, so it's a Title I handgun. The new Circuit Judge revolving carbine that is coming out is advertised as being available with either smooth or rifled bore barrels; if it's smooth, it has to be over 18". If it's rifled, it has to be over 16", but it can be under 18".
THE ABOVE PARAGRAPH DOES NOT APPLY TO SHOTGUNS LARGER THAN .50 CAL. The problem is precisely that almost all shotguns (other than the .410) are larger than .50 caliber. Shotguns in general, smooth or rifled bore, are considered Title I shotguns with a sporting exemption for their bore size. There are no smooth-bore Title I hand guns; as I already mentioned, a smooth-bore handgun is a Title II "Any Other Weapon".
The common layman's theory here is that a shotgun with a rifled barrel shorter than 18" but longer than 16" would constitute a Title I rifle, or that a shotgun shorter than 16" with a rifled barrel would be a Title I handgun, both with bore-size sporting clause exemptions. The ATF disagrees, however: as soon as you go under the 18" barrel length (or 26" over-all length) the ATF says that it no longer has a sporting exemption for its bore size, and that if you don't register it as a Short Barreled Shotgun or Any Other Weapon, you must register it as a Destructive Device. Does it make sense? No. Is it right? No. Is it the law? For now and the foreseeable future, yes.
The answer to your original question: If you live in an AWB state, you're probably pretty much SOL on Title II weapons. A rifled 12 gauge or 20 gauge shotgun would still be considered a shotgun. A rifled bore Saiga-410, however, would be considered a Title I rifle.
Keep in mind, everything I've posted here is Federal law, not State law. An example of how that can come back to bite you is that the minimum over-all length of a rifle (possibly only semiauto rifles with detachable magazines, I can't remember) in the State of California is not 26" with the stock extended, but 30" with the stock folded or fully collapsed. Just because you're in compliance with Federal law doesn't mean you're in compliance with State law, so be careful and do some more research; possibly get legal advice from a real lawyer, or get a letter from the ATF or your state's Department of (in)Justice.
There are probably a few minor details I missed which other people might be able to fill in, but that's the meat and potatoes of the NFA as it relates to shotguns. It is really irksome that they actually pay people to think this crap up.
Edited ten million times for typos I didn't find before posting.
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I think L5K hit the nail on the head. +1 for getting the .308 Win.
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Im just going to mod that, put the telescoping and folding stock on it and just customize it the way i want it instead of relying on some company to do it.
Nothing makes me happier than the DIY spirit. Good on ya, mate. -
Please list any other battle rifle besides the M16 (that isn't designed after the M16) that has a forward assist.
Israeli FAL, Steyr StG.77A1 AUG, MSAR STG-556, Robinson Armament XCR, and the H&K G41, along with the PSG1 sniper rifle. Most other H&K roller delayed rifles have a thumbprint-shaped serration on the side of the bolt carrier you can push on through the ejection port.
Forward assist doesn't have a single thing to do with reliability of the weapon; it has to do with making sure the bolt is fully seated into battery. On any rifle with a reciprocating charging handle, AK included, you can simply jam forward on said charging handle. On any rifle with a non-reciprocating charging handle, you can only pull the bolt rearward, not push it forward, at least not with the charging handle. Thus, you have some kind of forward assist function. On the Izzy FAL, AUG A1, and XCR you can press inward on the charging handle knob (or a button on the charging handle in the case of the AUG) to lock the charging handle to the bolt carrier, and use that to push forward.
The reason the Colt Model 603/M16A1 included a forward assist had nothing to do with the reliability history; it was introduced into the system in late 1967 when almost all of the reliability problems had already been sorted out; powder corrected, bore chrome lined, heavier recoil buffer, reinforced lower receiver, etc. The forward assist was introduced because, basically, the Army said this:
"There are certain times in the use of a rifle when you want to make damn sure the bolt is all the way closed; your charging handle doesn't let us do that. Give us a way to push forward directly on the bolt, by hand, or we're not going to officially adopt it."
My opinion is, in principle, the same. Better to have and not need than to need and not have, as the saying goes.
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@MT Predator: It looks like that Martini has a safety lever on it; is it a Greener-made rifle? Duh, I forgot the Martini has a cocked-state indicator on it, that's what that is. Anyway, that is a pretty sweet piece of hardware. One of these days I want a Greener Egyptian Police Mk.III shotgun with the 14.5 gauge bottlenecked brass shells.
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The following is only an opinion. There are many like it but this one is mine:
I haven't gotten to shoot the ACR as of yet, I have only handled and stripped them in-store on several occasions. I have however devoted more time than I really should have into researching its design and all the different features (there's next to no documentation on how the charging handle actually works), and have spent plenty of time discussing it with Tokageko since it came out.
I don't like the charging handle. The deal with it is that it's non-reciprocating when you're firing, but it locks itself to the bolt carrier when you pull it back manually. This is so you can jam forward on it like a forward assist or fixed charging handle. The problem is that you can't push it all the way forward with the carrier. For about the last 1/4" of forward travel, the charging handle lets go of the carrier and no longer acts as a forward assist. Part of the point to having a forward assist function is to make sure the carrier is all the way into battery and you can't do that with the ACR's charging handle, nor is there any surface on the bolt carrier you can press on through the ejection port. We all know that 99% of the time it's not something you actually need, but it's a very nice thing to have. Lacking FA isn't a deal breaker for me but, given the option, I'd rather have it than not have it.
I'm also not crazy about getting rid of the ejection port dust cover. People will generally say "well you don't need it on anything other than the AR" but fact of the matter is, it's a good design feature. Getting dirt and mud in your weapon is never desirable regardless of what weapon system you run, and keep in mind the AK has a dust cover too; the flap of the safety lever that covers up the charging handle slot when on safe.
The ambi bolt catch/release is probably my favorite thing about the rifle, that's pretty much win. I also like how easy it is to remove the barrel. Having a stock that is both telescopic and side-folding is good (I consider lack of a folding stock the AR's worst feature), as many companies are starting to figure out (Para Ordnance TTR, FN SCAR, SIG SG556 Classic). These are the only features I consider to be significant improvements over the standard AR-15A2/A4 (most of you probably know my opinion on the Stoner direct gas system by now), and it's not enough to justify replacing my AR, regardless of price. Same goes for the FN SCAR, and the RobArm XCR. Of those three rifles, if I had to choose one, I'd probably choose the SCAR; the XCR would be my last choice.
But hey, if you already own an AR and an AK and have money to burn, ain't nothin' wrong with expanding your horizons a little.
Keep in mind you could always rebarrel an ACR (or SCAR) for 6.8mm SPC or possibly 6.5mm Grendel or something, later on down the road when the accessories become available as I have no doubt they will.-
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I have to +1 half the posters in this thread: the .45 ACP has a tremendous fan base with the largest gap between "what it can do" and "what I think it can do" of any dedicated pistol cartridge I can think of.
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well fuck Ruger because of there stance on the AWB....the others
I don't think that's fair. Old Man Ruger was largely responsible for those unfavorable politics, and the bastard is dead now, so I feel the company deserves a second chance. They've done quite a lot to try to earn back consumer respect since he bit the dust. New full-size military pistol, new CCW pistols, an AR-15 variant, and factory 20rnd Mini-14/30 mags are back on the table.
...but I still say piston-converted ARs are bullshit. I voted for the SIG. The MSAR isn't bad either if you're not concerned about the bullpup ejection-side issues.
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I wouldnt waste my money on ANY Ruger Mini product...
I'm actually kind of interested in the Mini-6.8. I have no interest in 6.8mm SPC, and I have no interest in the Ruger Mini/Ranch rifle, but somehow the combination of an uninteresting rifle with an uninteresting cartridge interests me. I know, it doesn't make a lick of sense.
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is a link to a YouTube video showing one option, shown on an AK. Unfortunately, try as I might, I never managed to get my (NORINCO SKS) rear sight off. The spring was just too damn stiff.
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H&R First Model Autoejector, c1880. It don't work so well...
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From what I have read (a long time ago, and my memory has a way of playing tricks on me), I believe the bore of the Mini-30 tapers from .311 at the throat to .308 at the muzzle. EDIT: I'm 90% sure it says that in Jane's Guns Recognition Guide 1st Ed., but that obviously isn't the most accurate source of info. I'd check but I don't have it anymore (loaned it to a friend 3 years ago along with CotW 10th Ed. and haven't got either back yet.) Teh interwez say that pre-1992 Mini-30s are .308 while the newer barrels are .311 and there's no reliable mention of a tapered bore at all, though apparently I'm not the only person who has heard that.
Here's what a quick Google search says:
"I have a stainless Mini 30 with a 3x9x40 scope on it. I've been shoot Wolf ammo for years and never had any problems. Accuracy at 100 yards, 3 shot groups, inch and a half. I shoot the 154 grain soft points. Just keep the rifle clean and lubed. With the polymer coating on the casings, it is not nearly as dirty as the old lacquer use to be. By the way, it's all non corrosive."
"I think you should avoid the Wolf Black Box in your M30. I tryed it in my 189 series and it didn't shoot well, was dirty and had several FTF out of the 3 boxes I tryed. some M30 owners have reported fireing pin breakage with also."
"Have a new mini 30. New factory fresh Wolf black box ammo... The two don't work together... Anyone have any experience with Wolf.
I have been told that the Wolf has harder primers so the firing pin strike is not strong enough."
"Yes shooting it voids Rugers warranty because it can break the firing pin. This goes for almost all imported ammo. Now I've shot albout a quarter case of steel cased Russian ammo and I never broke a firing pin, but then again I don't know if it has been weakened either and if I have to depend on the rifle some day I hope it doesn't pick that moment to break."
"The seller never stated whether any parts had been replaced, and out of about 1,200 rounds of only Wolf and Monarch, it has had about 12-16 ftfs on the first pin strike."
"According to the factory "experts" I spoke with, the steel casings are rough on extractors, and many of the foreign-made primers are hard on firing pins. I suppose we can take them at their word, or read of real-life circumstances here on the PU. Many shooters apparently have no trouble with the steel-cased ammo. All I know is that I've invested some time and money in my equipment, and although I love a good deal on ammo prices, I'm not going to take any chances with potentially harmful rounds."
Food for thought.
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The AR's reputation for being a jammomatic comes from stories of their terrible service history in Vietnam persisting to the present and being exaggerated as such stories often are. Pre-68 ARs are pretty much utter crap in terms of reliability, but all the problems from that era have been solved. There's really nothing wrong with DGI; it still has a gas piston and cylinder like any other gas operated weapon, just not where you'd naturally expect them to be, and this comes with (mostly) all the same pros and cons as any other gas op system. As for running dirty in the receiver, the AR has nothing on any delayed blowback rifle. Anyone who complains about how dirty the AR-15 is hasn't had to clean an HK93.
The one remaining, wide-spread problem is that most carbines (any example with a telescopic stock) are over-gassed, in the sense that the mechanical load isn't heavy enough for the amount of power put out by the gas system, regardless of what gas system length you have. Shorter tube = shorter buffer = lighter buffer. The easy fix for that is to swap the steel core buffer out for a tungsten core one. If you're running a rifle stock and buffer (which you are) then it's a non-issue.
FWIW, I only oiled mine (16" M4 with M16 carrier group and H3 buffer) when I first built it and haven't cleaned it at all yet, and haven't had any hiccups. Granted, I'm still in the hundreds-of-rounds range (I'm poor and ammo is expensive) so we'll see what happens, but I don't anticipate any problems. If you really want to see what kind of abuse a well-made AR can take, look up Pat Rogers' Filthy 14 carbine.
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Brown bear ammo did leave some crap build up in the action, which wiped out easy when I got home. I did not notice any stuck cases or feeding problems, could be due to the chrome lined barrel or that its a 20" with a fixed stock (which internet rumors say works the best).
For the sake of brevity I won't go into the full explanation but, yes, the good reliability comes from the heavier rifle-length buffer. It's also hard to beat D&H for quality metal mags; they're the current mil.gov supplier of the things. Anyway, nice lookin' rifle all around!
And holy hell what is the capacity on that AK mag?
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Be prepared to be made fun of at the range for owning a French rifle! "Like new; never fired, dropped only once" as they say...
But seriously, nice piece of hardware. I'd like to get one myself eventually. Good that it's 7.5x54; I've heard that the Century rechambers for .308 aren't particularly safe to fire.
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FWIW, 5.45x39mm does feed reliably in the AR, and there are uppers out there for it. Doesn't really help you I suppose if you've got a ton of 7.62x39mm stocked up...
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Yes, how much? I'm DEFINITELY down for one.
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I still say piston conversions are BS, but that's one woman's opinion. Then again, after seeing what corrosive 7.62x25mm ammo did to a DI BCG, it might not be a bad idea for ComBloc ammo. No idea if light primer strikes will be a problem with the stock mainspring, but I've never heard of anyone selling a more powerful than standard one. The main problem with the 7.62x39mm AR is that, to my knowledge, there are still no truly reliable magazines for it larger than six rounds. The necessary curvature of the magazine, due to the severely tapered case, can't really be done with the AR's straight-down magwell. This is why there are platforms like the KAC AR-47 and MGI Hydra, taking standard AK mags.
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Ah, retarded blowback. Was there ever a more appropriate name?
As others have mentioned, delayed blowback firearms tend to throw their fired casings toward yonder horizon, never to be seen again. They also run VERY dirty in the receiver, due to gas blow-by around the casing from the fluted chamber.
I think the G3 had the paddle style mag release, and one of the differences between them and the HK91 is
that the 91 has the pushbotton mag release.
All of the CETME/H&K rifles of this type (G3, MP5, HK91, etc) have the push-button crossbolt mag catch just like an AR. On the fullauto models, the paddle release on the bottom rotates around the front lower pin. It acts as a camming lever to push the actual crossbolt mag catch to the left, from the inside. Since the semiauto models do away with the front lower pin (replacing it with a solid shelf to prevent interchangeability between the semiauto and select fire trigger housings), there is nothing for the paddle release to rotate on and is thus simply eliminated. As I understand it, you can modify the semiauto rifles (HK41/91/93/94, SP89, PSG1) to have the paddle release, but it's not advisable since you could very well end up accidentally manufacturing an illegal machinegun receiver.
Is a rifled slug gun a rifle or shot gun?
in General Discussion - Any topic is welcome here!!!
Posted · Edited by Caspian Sea Monster
^^^This.
The old adage "it's easier to get forgiveness than permission" does not apply to the ATF.
I would imagine so, yes, but PLEASE mail the ATF Firearms Technology Branch and find out for sure. No one here will take responsibility if you don't and it gets you in trouble.