[2 new Saiga pistons from MD Arms, LTD]

ok, im lost. i have heard from a lot of people that a KA piston will help cycling. i cant imagine all that is a lie. on the other hand, mike has a outstanding reputation and releases extremely good products, and if he says somthing its probably true. so what i see is a company with a relativly proven product IMO, and a company with a product that is almost guarenteed to do as advertised, and both are discrediting the other. i believe the only way to settle this is a head to head test on a stock saiga, with a video showing the performance, and showing a detailed overview of each puck, and shows each puck being inserted into the gun, so nobody screams sabatoge. also, i say stock saiga, not out of the box saiga, because the gun has to be broken in for a accurate test. just my

I only said the stay clean claims of the KA were not existent in my tests. The KA does slightly increase cycling power. I just don't think the increase is anything close to brag about as increased reliability. It is just too small and most won't see much benifit at all.

 

Also I designed the Booster primarily for those new out of box guns with trouble. It should make the very most of these out of box guns that have ejection problems from the shoulder with the factory piston be able to fire the same stuff from the hip with the Booster. In my opinion there isn't a better show of improvement than that situation. Regardless, I am very confidant the Booster is going to dominate any current piston on the market in cycling power increase! The difference will be night and day. The Booster piston is in a whole new class of pistons.

[2 new Saiga pistons from MD Arms, LTD]

Mike, I know the thread is moving fast, but would you mind speaking to my question of wear resistance? Since you've swapped from steel, what kind of lifespan reduction do you expect? It's a $16.00 part so it's ok if it doesn't last as long, but I'd like to know what kind of a difference we are looking at.

Sorry, I don't think ware will be an issue. I might have close to a couple thousand rounds on one sample and it is completely fine with no signs past rub marks which the factory get as well. Also if it ever does ware out just send it back and we will replace it with a new one. I really don't think that will be an issue though. My thought is if someone fire enough rounds on one to ware it out I'd love to see the end result and they deserve a new one!

[2 new Saiga pistons from MD Arms, LTD]

WOW!!! I was just informed by Lauren that we just received a very nasty voicemail from King's Armory... It stated that I exactly copied their design and that although I said their design didn't do anything that mine does, among other ramblings. He also stated I was only a couple hours drive away!

 

King's Armory, Are you kinding me? You can openly bash E-Tac on the twister piston but I can't give my opinion on the KA piston? First off I didn't bash, second off if you don't like what I said don't jack up your claims that are so easily called as BS.

 

And to further point out if you read and look carefully you will see the design is different. First off our design intent and advertised features are totally different and conflicting. Mine are correct and yours are wrong... I had gas chamber volume increase in consideration because it hurts, not help like you advertised. The dished area is smooth and flowing in ours and not choppy and broken like the KA piston. Most importantly if you read our stainless piston info you will see I clearly state that the dished area isn't considered a reliability increaser which it most definately shouldn't be claimed. I think the real issue here is I am now selling a better designed piston than the KA piston for $10 compared to the KA's $30 or so piston and I'm selling a booster piston that will really work as advertised for $16.

 

While we're at it I also want to call complete BS on your reported 1 to 2 thousand rounds fired before cleaning that you state on the KA piston. That has been urking me for a couple years now because it is one of the biggest loads of crap I've seen stated about an aftermarket saiga item. It's your name though I guess. But it is also this spewing of crap that makes me have to better explain why ours is different. Because the BS and distrust transfers over from items that don't live up to the stated claims.

 

What a complete rip off your KA piston has been and you should be ashamed of yourself! At least the Twister piston really does help keep the gun clean a little longer...

 

Do yourself a favor and don't bother calling back.

 

 

well if you actually think the twister puck keeps it cleaner than I will not even bother with your puck, they sent me all three pucks and guess what my little shorty would not cycle with any of them and worse than that after just a hundred rounds it was all gummed up. the factory puck was cleaner than theirs and ran a bit better and the ka puck I have works flawless and I can run hundreds of rounds without having to clean it.

Oh man... You mean a guy that wasn't going to buy a Booster piston isn't going to buy a Booster piston? Now I'm worried... Yeah, you should keep using your KA that is good for 1 to 2 thousands rounds without cleaning that you have to clean after hundreds...

 

well there is a reason for that my s12 is a slug gun and as you should know slugs have a hell of a lot more fouling than 00buck or fed bulk pack so after a few hundred rounds it needs to be cleaned but hey if you really want me to put your puck to the test and tell me it will outperform the ka puck? Remember my s12 has a stock gas system with a 9" barrel, so your puck will cycle bulk fed with this? will your puck cycle slugs more reliably? for it to be reliable would mean i won't have jams or fte with your puck.

The info is there to read... If your having fte with your 9inch gun when using slugs then the work was poorly done and your gun is severly lacking already. If a competent builder did it for you it should cycle bulk stuff with the factory piston (all mine do), lol!!!! Did that guru Glockmonger do the work for you??? You might want to have it looked at by someone that knows what is going on if your having troubles with it...

 

Like I "tried" to tell you guys on the AZ forum... If you want to know something about the saiga-12 you come here, PERIOD!

 

Also, I'll bet the business that the Booster will out preform the KA on reliability any day of the week and I can even take away the dished ring and finish... I never said it was a stay clean piston though and neither should have KA. I have 2 KA and they never kept the gun clean one bit longer! Just so you know we have tested probably 10 different stay clean concepts of our own design and some in multiple variations. None, even free flowing designs did much. The best we had was doubling the time between cleanings and this wasn't consistant. At times even it would clog prematurly... These were also including those with joey tears finishes (joke I made in the AZ thread about KA).

actually no glockmonger has not touched my gun I had my saiga converted and chopped down in '05 way before I joined this site and when I looked for sbsed s12 I did not see anyone doing any at the time, and you really might not want to talk smack about his builds he builds some smooth running guns its just that my s12 is a slug gun and always has been KA does whine but that aside all his components work and if your puck works so great without the dish then why have it in the first place?

You call your gun a slug gun... I think you only call it that because that is all that will run in it. A 9 inch barreled slug gun? As far as Glockmonger... I never said anything about his work, only asked about it... He did rub me the wrong way though. I also stand by my statement that if he doesn't know or hasn't seen some of the things he said then he isn't nearly as up to par on these saiga-12s as he, you, or others think...

 

Oh, I put the dish there for the reasons I stated. It is a slight increase in effiecency. SLIGHT being the key word. If you care to read instead of just typing you can read more details on that. It has nothing at all to do with pressure curve like KA claims on his... You should go back and reread everything in that AZ thread very carefully to see how many times KA contradicts his own claims on somethings... He obviously doesn't read well either and makes many ASSumptions as well. You have to be very careful claiming ASSumtions as fact. Very often it will make you look like an ignorant ASS. It can also border on slander in certain situations. When I state things I have repeatable testing to back it up as fact or I state it is an assumtion and I don't know for sure ( to keep the "ass" lowercase)...

[Are you having ejection problems with low brass?]

I picked 12 people from this thread to test one. You have a PM if selected. Basically everyone that seemed to have troubles. Testing offer closed.

[2 new Saiga pistons from MD Arms, LTD]

I will be ordering one for my SBS.

I don't have any FTE issues, but I think the design of the piston will help the gun to operate longer when the gas system gets fouled.

Nice job!

Matt, Neither really do anything for staying clean or running longer. I wouldn't buy one for that reason.

[2 new Saiga pistons from MD Arms, LTD]

I just got my booster puck in.

 

Holy hell is that light! It speced out a couple thousands larger in diameter, and considerably longer than the factory puck. It fits like a glove and rides in the tube very frictionless.

 

That with the tac auto plug(sorry Mike) sure does make for a hell of an improved gas system over the factory system. They mate up so perfect. I can't wait to try out the puck, there's just no where I can go shoot anymore these days. If I shoot at home the neighbors have the cops over here in a matter of minutes.

 

When did you place your order? I ordered on Tuesday and it still hasn't shipped..

 

What is your order number? It should of shipped the same day you ordered it. The USPS is very lacking in their tracking. More often then not the customer receives an item before the USPS system even updates that they received the package. Usually it just say information was received that a package will be submitted to them for shipping...

 

The closest thing to an order # I could find in the confirmation email was this: Approval Code: APPROVED 338629

 

Also, I never received a tracking number. No worries, as long as it gets here by the end of next week I'll be happy

You should have received an email with your order number. Also a tracking number by email from USPS. Email me your name so I can look your order up. You can also log into our site to view your order number and status. Let me know.

[2 new Saiga pistons from MD Arms, LTD]

Very cool...great price too! Will be picking one up pronto...

 

 

Hey Mike, I sent you two PM's about a week ago, and have yet to receive a response...Maybe your inbox is overrun...Do you have another way to contact you??

Sorry, I rarely get to my PMs. The best way to reach me is through info@mdarms.com. I was going to disable my PM box awhile back but something kept me from doing so. I think it was because I would lose all past PM records.

[2 new Saiga pistons from MD Arms, LTD]

I just got my booster puck in.

 

Holy hell is that light! It speced out a couple thousands larger in diameter, and considerably longer than the factory puck. It fits like a glove and rides in the tube very frictionless.

 

That with the tac auto plug(sorry Mike) sure does make for a hell of an improved gas system over the factory system. They mate up so perfect. I can't wait to try out the puck, there's just no where I can go shoot anymore these days. If I shoot at home the neighbors have the cops over here in a matter of minutes.

 

When did you place your order? I ordered on Tuesday and it still hasn't shipped..

 

What is your order number? It should of shipped the same day you ordered it. The USPS is very lacking in their tracking. More often then not the customer receives an item before the USPS system even updates that they received the package. Usually it just say information was received that a package will be submitted to them for shipping...

[2 new Saiga pistons from MD Arms, LTD]

I just got my booster puck in.

 

Holy hell is that light! It speced out a couple thousands larger in diameter, and considerably longer than the factory puck. It fits like a glove and rides in the tube very frictionless.

 

That with the tac auto plug(sorry Mike) sure does make for a hell of an improved gas system over the factory system. They mate up so perfect. I can't wait to try out the puck, there's just no where I can go shoot anymore these days. If I shoot at home the neighbors have the cops over here in a matter of minutes.

Actually the diameter isn't a couple thousands bigger. Depending on the tool your measuring with can give inacurate readings. The factory pistons are between .8240" to .8260. The booster will be around .8260" to .8264" A micrometer should be used to measure thicknesses and not calipers. Also the length isn't longer than the factory either. It actually falls in the middle of factory samples I measured. It will probably measure between .010" shorter or longer than a factory piston depending on the factory piston you have. That is about the thickness difference of 3 sheets of 20lbs paper.

 

The booster should help you shoot low brass with the auto plug. But you better be careful in what high power rounds you use because from what I've seen the auto leaves some guns over gassed already with those. From what I here they don't recommend using 3 inch shells with the auto so that should tell you something there.

 

Thanks again and look forward to your results.

[2 new Saiga pistons from MD Arms, LTD]

WOW!!! I was just informed by Lauren that we just received a very nasty voicemail from King's Armory... It stated that I exactly copied their design and that although I said their design didn't do anything that mine does, among other ramblings. He also stated I was only a couple hours drive away!

 

King's Armory, Are you kinding me? You can openly bash E-Tac on the twister piston but I can't give my opinion on the KA piston? First off I didn't bash, second off if you don't like what I said don't jack up your claims that are so easily called as BS.

 

And to further point out if you read and look carefully you will see the design is different. First off our design intent and advertised features are totally different and conflicting. Mine are correct and yours are wrong... I had gas chamber volume increase in consideration because it hurts, not help like you advertised. The dished area is smooth and flowing in ours and not choppy and broken like the KA piston. Most importantly if you read our stainless piston info you will see I clearly state that the dished area isn't considered a reliability increaser which it most definately shouldn't be claimed. I think the real issue here is I am now selling a better designed piston than the KA piston for $10 compared to the KA's $30 or so piston and I'm selling a booster piston that will really work as advertised for $16.

 

While we're at it I also want to call complete BS on your reported 1 to 2 thousand rounds fired before cleaning that you state on the KA piston. That has been urking me for a couple years now because it is one of the biggest loads of crap I've seen stated about an aftermarket saiga item. It's your name though I guess. But it is also this spewing of crap that makes me have to better explain why ours is different. Because the BS and distrust transfers over from items that don't live up to the stated claims.

 

What a complete rip off your KA piston has been and you should be ashamed of yourself! At least the Twister piston really does help keep the gun clean a little longer...

 

Do yourself a favor and don't bother calling back.

 

 

well if you actually think the twister puck keeps it cleaner than I will not even bother with your puck, they sent me all three pucks and guess what my little shorty would not cycle with any of them and worse than that after just a hundred rounds it was all gummed up. the factory puck was cleaner than theirs and ran a bit better and the ka puck I have works flawless and I can run hundreds of rounds without having to clean it.

Oh man... You mean a guy that wasn't going to buy a Booster piston isn't going to buy a Booster piston? Now I'm worried... Yeah, you should keep using your KA that is good for 1 to 2 thousands rounds without cleaning that you have to clean after hundreds...

 

well there is a reason for that my s12 is a slug gun and as you should know slugs have a hell of a lot more fouling than 00buck or fed bulk pack so after a few hundred rounds it needs to be cleaned but hey if you really want me to put your puck to the test and tell me it will outperform the ka puck? Remember my s12 has a stock gas system with a 9" barrel, so your puck will cycle bulk fed with this? will your puck cycle slugs more reliably? for it to be reliable would mean i won't have jams or fte with your puck.

The info is there to read... If your having fte with your 9inch gun when using slugs then the work was poorly done and your gun is severly lacking already. If a competent builder did it for you it should cycle bulk stuff with the factory piston (all mine do), lol!!!! Did that guru Glockmonger do the work for you??? You might want to have it looked at by someone that knows what is going on if your having troubles with it...

 

Like I "tried" to tell you guys on the AZ forum... If you want to know something about the saiga-12 you come here, PERIOD!

 

Also, I'll bet the business that the Booster will out preform the KA on reliability any day of the week and I can even take away the dished ring and finish... I never said it was a stay clean piston though and neither should have KA. I have 2 KA and they never kept the gun clean one bit longer! Just so you know we have tested probably 10 different stay clean concepts of our own design and some in multiple variations. None, even free flowing designs did much. The best we had was doubling the time between cleanings and this wasn't consistant. At times even it would clog prematurly... These were also including those with joey tears finishes (joke I made in the AZ thread about KA).

[2 new Saiga pistons from MD Arms, LTD]

I recently received my new RandR targets tactical gun. it would not cycle the low brass walmart stuff reliably. I would have 1-3 FTEs per 10/12 round mag with the stock plug. Its a 4 holer and nothing is covered up. I then ordered a v-plug and a KA puck. Tried the gun with just the v-plug and same thing, even on setting 5. Popped in the KA puck and viola! Flawless since. I have tried to shoot from the hip, and no go even with the KA puck. I stumbled on this thread and just ordered 2 boosters. One for my RandR gun and one for my stock Kvar/Arsenal. Will order another booster and v-plug when my Tromix gets here (I was on the Jan build list) gun should be being built as i type this The KA did definitely help my FTE issues but will see if the booster puck will allow me to shoot from the hip. Never had issues with my stock kvar, it wont shoot from the hip reliably either.....but i figured why would I really care if it shoots 100% from the hip.

For a gun to be considered reliable firing from the hip should be no different than firing from the shoulder. This is a very good example of why the KA shouldn't be advertised as a reliability increaser. Yeah, it might fire from the shoulder but a slight changes takes that all away... Thanks for the order. I am sure you will be firing from the hip now!

[2 new Saiga pistons from MD Arms, LTD]

As if mike has never done any name calling? LOL

 

Differences? Ok. I said it looked familiar, which um... it does.

 

Wasn't mike crying not too long ago about how promag copied his drum and he was sad he couldn't buttrape his customers anymore? The promag drum sure seems plenty different to me, so how is it a copy?

The difference is the (poorly) copied areas of my drum where the key features that make it work. The areas you and KA like to think I copied don't do jack for reliability despite the advertising claims they make. But you keep on just looking and don't bother reading to educate yourself on the major difference of the parts and subject. You'll only hamper yourself with that.

 

As far as the buttraping... I have openly said that the Promag drum was a blessing. It allowed me damn good reason to drop the price of the MD-20. The only reason I hadn't before hand is because I didn't want people's drum to be devalued... I didn't devalue them, Promag did. But it totally changed the game here at MD Arms for the better! Why is your buddy KA still assraping people on his piston? It sure isn't because he is concerned he will drop the value of an item that the majority of consumers don't see a value or benifit in!

[2 new Saiga pistons from MD Arms, LTD]

WOW!!! I was just informed by Lauren that we just received a very nasty voicemail from King's Armory... It stated that I exactly copied their design and that although I said their design didn't do anything that mine does, among other ramblings. He also stated I was only a couple hours drive away!

 

King's Armory, Are you kinding me? You can openly bash E-Tac on the twister piston but I can't give my opinion on the KA piston? First off I didn't bash, second off if you don't like what I said don't jack up your claims that are so easily called as BS.

 

And to further point out if you read and look carefully you will see the design is different. First off our design intent and advertised features are totally different and conflicting. Mine are correct and yours are wrong... I had gas chamber volume increase in consideration because it hurts, not help like you advertised. The dished area is smooth and flowing in ours and not choppy and broken like the KA piston. Most importantly if you read our stainless piston info you will see I clearly state that the dished area isn't considered a reliability increaser which it most definately shouldn't be claimed. I think the real issue here is I am now selling a better designed piston than the KA piston for $10 compared to the KA's $30 or so piston and I'm selling a booster piston that will really work as advertised for $16.

 

While we're at it I also want to call complete BS on your reported 1 to 2 thousand rounds fired before cleaning that you state on the KA piston. That has been urking me for a couple years now because it is one of the biggest loads of crap I've seen stated about an aftermarket saiga item. It's your name though I guess. But it is also this spewing of crap that makes me have to better explain why ours is different. Because the BS and distrust transfers over from items that don't live up to the stated claims.

 

What a complete rip off your KA piston has been and you should be ashamed of yourself! At least the Twister piston really does help keep the gun clean a little longer...

 

Do yourself a favor and don't bother calling back.

 

 

well if you actually think the twister puck keeps it cleaner than I will not even bother with your puck, they sent me all three pucks and guess what my little shorty would not cycle with any of them and worse than that after just a hundred rounds it was all gummed up. the factory puck was cleaner than theirs and ran a bit better and the ka puck I have works flawless and I can run hundreds of rounds without having to clean it.

Oh man... You mean a guy that wasn't going to buy a Booster piston isn't going to buy a Booster piston? Now I'm worried... Yeah, you should keep using your KA that is good for 1 to 2 thousands rounds without cleaning that you have to clean after hundreds...

[2 new Saiga pistons from MD Arms, LTD]

Guys, You all are welcome to test the Booster side by side with the KA. I sure know I did already. That is why I can very comfortable say the KA doesn't compare. I tried to educate the guys on the AZ forum but most just wasn't wanting to here it. Oh well. You can only laugh at such arrogance when added to ignorance... But like I tried to tell KA there, I can remove the dished ring and finish and the Booster would still just as easily with basically no measurable difference put the KA to shame on increasing reliability. Because like I stated the dished ring and finish aren't the making or breaking factor.

 

On the doomed piston... We tried that. It really didn't make a measurable difference. I am thinking the added weight of the doom countered the volume decrease... Not sure but it definately wasn't the ticket and wasn't explored further.

 

but I am going to hold you to that garuntee!

mike i order the booster plug for 2 reasons well 3? you make a great drum and v-plug, you answered most of my questions without being an ass, and your forum reputation is outstanding! what the hell its $18.92 experiment that I believe will be worth it to compare to the factory and my other one! Thanks!

I expect you to do just that! Thanks again!

[2 new Saiga pistons from MD Arms, LTD]

WOW!!! I was just informed by Lauren that we just received a very nasty voicemail from King's Armory... It stated that I exactly copied their design and that although I said their design didn't do anything that mine does, among other ramblings. He also stated I was only a couple hours drive away!

 

King's Armory, Are you kinding me? You can openly bash E-Tac on the twister piston but I can't give my opinion on the KA piston? First off I didn't bash, second off if you don't like what I said don't jack up your claims that are so easily called as BS.

 

And to further point out if you read and look carefully you will see the design is different. First off our design intent and advertised features are totally different and conflicting. Mine are correct and yours are wrong... I had gas chamber volume increase in consideration because it hurts, not help like you advertised. The dished area is smooth and flowing in ours and not choppy and broken like the KA piston. Most importantly if you read our stainless piston info you will see I clearly state that the dished area isn't considered a reliability increaser which it most definately shouldn't be claimed. I think the real issue here is I am now selling a better designed piston than the KA piston for $10 compared to the KA's $30 or so piston and I'm selling a booster piston that will really work as advertised for $16.

 

While we're at it I also want to call complete BS on your reported 1 to 2 thousand rounds fired before cleaning that you state on the KA piston. That has been urking me for a couple years now because it is one of the biggest loads of crap I've seen stated about an aftermarket saiga item. It's your name though I guess. But it is also this spewing of crap that makes me have to better explain why ours is different. Because the BS and distrust transfers over from items that don't live up to the stated claims.

 

What a complete rip off your KA piston has been and you should be ashamed of yourself! At least the Twister piston really does help keep the gun clean a little longer...

 

Do yourself a favor and don't bother calling back.

[2 new Saiga pistons from MD Arms, LTD]

Are you saying that it did manage to compensate for the deficiency in a 24 inch cut to 19 inch?

 

If so, I would be interested in testing it myself. My gun is only a 3 port, but the total surface area of the ports is equal to that of a three port. This is how it came from the factory and drilling the 4th port would have most likely over gassed the gun as well as being problematic due to the factory pattern. It is a good running gun now, but I anticipate my desired change will screw that up.

 

I will be sending you a PM.

 

Sorry, I missed the typos. I fixed it in the original thread. No, it wasn't close to overcoming the missing port.

[2 new Saiga pistons from MD Arms, LTD]

I'm trying to order the Booster Puck and VPlug and I'm getting this error message: Cookies and Privacy https://www.mdarms.c...ge=cookie_usage

 

My computer has Firefox instead of Internet Explorer. As far as I can tell when I go in the options "Cookies" are enabled. Is there a way around this??

Mechanically inclined but bordering on computer illiterate... If it keeps giving you problems let me know and I'll have someone that is computer friendly take a look at it.

 

I had to download Internet Explorer and use that to place my order, no big deal. It might be a good idea though to have whoever runs your website look into making it work with FireFox

Will do. We reasently rebuilt the store. The guy that did it for us went to school for I.T. but you sure wouldn't know it for as jacked up as our website is. He is no longer with the company... We are going to hire a professional to redo it again here soon and I'll mention the firefox.

[2 new Saiga pistons from MD Arms, LTD]

I know you said that you were gonna post test results from the booster plug but just off the top of your head what % of increased reliability are we talking about with the lightest loads like the federal bulk pack?

So far in all guns (not missing ports) it was 100%. Even from the hip!

[2 new Saiga pistons from MD Arms, LTD]

Would the weight of the puck make a difference? If the puck is lighter, would it be pushed around by the gases more effectively? The factory puck is pretty heavy.

You nailed it. The concept started about a year ago. I was wondering if by increasing the weight of the piston if it would transfer more energy to the action. We got some tungsten and made a piston. The piston was about 3 times heavier than the factory steel piston. Tungsten is often used as a base metal in counterfeit gold bars and coins because it is so heavy. Anyways... Took it the range to test the cyclic rate in our full auto to compare to the factory piston. Our full auto is already a hot running gun and will fire low brass Winchester bulk pack one handed from the hip no problem with the factory piston... Shouldered and fired (using Federal bulk pack)... FTE! The same and the same until the drum was about half empty. At this point it did run but the cyclic rate was reduced around 100rds per minute, roughly a 16 to 18% decrease in cyclic rate. I confirmed at this point that the energy transferred from the piston to bolt carrier was from pushing rather than impact. Immediately it was apparent that if the increase in weight hurt, a decrease would help...

 

The booster piston is roughly 1/3 the weight of a steel piston. It is not titanium. Titanium is very expensive and the price of the booster piston would have been off the charts if that was what was used. Also typical titanium can crack and chip. There is probably a titanium alloy that would have been a good match but it would likely have been more expensive than the standard titanium alloys available.

 

I will not say the exact alloy we used because it was at great time and expense nailing down just the right material for the job. Anyone that copies us on the concept will have to either release one made of an inferior alloy or go through the same pain staking process we did. There are many alloys of similar weight but very few with the right properties that will make a quality piston that will last for any real use.

 

The diomandized finish on the Booster piston is primarily for corrosion and wear (to piston) resistance. It also has a very low coeffiecency of friction and great release properties which makes cleaning easier. This specific finish is properitary to the company that does it for us.

[2 new Saiga pistons from MD Arms, LTD]

I'm trying to order the Booster Puck and VPlug and I'm getting this error message: Cookies and Privacy https://www.mdarms.com/index.php?main_page=cookie_usage

 

My computer has Firefox instead of Internet Explorer. As far as I can tell when I go in the options "Cookies" are enabled. Is there a way around this??

Mechanically inclined but bordering on computer illiterate... If it keeps giving you problems let me know and I'll have someone that is computer friendly take a look at it.

[2 new Saiga pistons from MD Arms, LTD]

PLEASE NOTE: If your Saiga doesn't have any problems ejecting low power ammo fired from the hip out of a fully loaded MD-20 20rd drum this isn't the piston for you and our Stainless Saiga Piston will better meet your needs and can be ordered by clicking here. The Booster piston is not recommended for use with high power ammo unless you have replaced the factory gas plug with the MD Arms V-Plug. Using high brass ammo in combination with the Booster Piston and the factory gas plug will over work the system. Also please note that although the increase in cycling power is significant it is still not enough to account for a missing gas port in your Saiga.

 

I'm currently using the factory puck and plug and my S12 will FTE every time If I try shooting from the hip, but it cycles flawlessly when I fire from the shoulder. Will this booster puck really make that much of a difference?

It most definately will. If you can fire from the shoulder with the factory no problem it will definately make your gun fire from the hip no problem with the booster piston. I will dig out some test results and post them. But in brief one new from the box 19inch 3 portgun that had a few ftes from a fully loaded MD-20 with Federal bulk pack from the shoulder would cycle very losely held from the hip using whinchest bulk and even a low recoil remington that was only 2 3/4 dram (instead of the bulk pack 3 dram). That exact ammo was Remington Permier STS Light Target 2 3/4 dram, 1 1/8 oz shot. The factory piston wasn't even thinking about firing this ammo or winchest bulk from the shoulder buyt did all day without fail from the hip with the booster plug. Like I said, there is no other piston on the market that increases cycling power like the booster plug. I'll go through the test data a post the exact numbers, firing postion, and ammo from this gun in discusion. But I garantee it.

 

Well shit, I guess I'm sold. My S12 is a 19" 3 port gun also.

 

You recommend the VPlug for using high brass along with the booster puck. Can you elaborate a little bit on how not using the Vplug will "overwork the system"?

 

Because all saiga-12s with the factory gas plug over work the system with some of the hottest high power rounds; like some 3 inch slugs or 2 3/4 or 3 inch turkey loads both. Some guns are a lot worse than others too depending how your gas block and/or factory gas plug is threaded. If you view the V-Plug page on our site you will see an example of the great difference of gas flow on the high brass setting in the same gas block from 2 different factory gas plugs. If you add in a significant increase in cycling power from the booster piston it will only multiply the issue. The V-Plug will eliminate the issue when used properly.

[2 new Saiga pistons from MD Arms, LTD]

Guns are great: I would say it is definatly installed with the concave side facing the muzzel with the flat side facing the reciever.

Correct.

[2 new Saiga pistons from MD Arms, LTD]

and no i'm not drunk! I just read folks saying stuff like "oh this puc really helps" or that "pucs are just ways to screw you out of money or just for 922r compliance?" I'm not trying to do anything but get some specifcs and facts to understand how this works to improve cycling before dropping 26 bucks plus shipping? thats money I can spend on one of his drums or a muzzle brake (74 style dinzag or polychoke css) you know! but if it truly helps and is guarunteed, then I may just get me one of each!!

I second that question! Mine also does the fte/ftfd crap when stock not braced and hip fired with the factory puc and the CSS puc today x1 or 2.

It has 4 ports all visible and open on 19" gun. polished bolt and FCG, MDArms V-Plug setting 5, and tromix large knurled charging handle, shooting federal bulk 3 dram 7.5 shot.

 

In theory if the flat side turned to ports no different than normal puc unless longer?

 

If the concave side is towards the ports and puc is longer and/or same length as fact puc, I can see that the length = smaller rigid container same gas volume from shells = more driving power to the piston via the puc.

 

And the concave area properly shaped should in theory also direct gas towards the center of the puc instead of sides rolling it backwards resulting in possibly more driving force or efficiency from the puc to bcg piston?

 

so if the pucs are identical except the coating how does the coaing make one so much better? specifics please. and which direction will the puc install?

 

and if the tail or nipple faces the ports what benefit is it over a true bowl? does it just increase laminar flow or smooth directional roll of the the gas rearward which increases power?? B/C Laminar flow is much better than Turbulent flow of gasses = The Bernulli Principle and/or Poiseulle's Law?

 

if the pucs are identical then we are back to why coating makes it special???

 

Boyle's law, Charles's law, and Gay-Lussac's law form the combined gas law. The three gas laws in combination with Avogadro's law Generalize the Ideal gas law .

Examples

1. Change of Pressure in a Syringe w/o vent push plunger
2. The popping of a Balloon
3. Increase in size of bubbles as they rise to the surface
4. Death of deep sea creatures due to change in pressure.
5. Popping of ears at high altitude
6. heated gas driven Saiga 12 puc/piston or any other gas driven semi/full auto shotgun?????
7. putting gas tanks i.e. O2, Nitrous, etc... in a hot room from a cold room= gas heats expands and tank remains same size = increase pressure in tank.EquationThe mathematical equation for Boyle's law is:
    
   

where:

 

p denotes the pressure of the system.V denotes the volume of the gas.k is a constant value representative of the pressure and volume of the system.

 

 

the other gas laws are basically just rearraning variables, sort of.

 

quote] PLEASE NOTE: If your Saiga doesn't have any problems ejecting low power ammo fired from the hip out of a fully loaded MD-20 20rd drum this isn't the piston for you and our Stainless Saiga Piston will better meet your needs and can be ordered by clicking here. The Booster piston is not recommended for use with high power ammo unless you have replaced the factory gas plug with the MD Arms V-Plug. Using high brass ammo in combination with the Booster Piston and the factory gas plug will over work the system. Also please note that although the increase in cycling power is significant it is still not enough to account for a missing gas port in your more driving power? I'm currently using the factory puck and plug and my S12 will FTE every time If I try shooting from the hip, but it cycles flawlessly when I fire from the shoulder. Will this booster puck really make that much of a difference?

The dished area faces the gas plug. It is just like an AK rifle in that it decreases gas loss around the piston. Both our pistons have this and this feature alone shouldn't be considered a realiability increaser. Although more effecient it makes very little difference on the grand scale. The button's purpose is explained above and has no working function for realiability increase or flow. But yes and thanks for pointing out... Our dished ring is a smooth radius and Laminar flow where the dished areas of the other similar pistons are turbulent flow...

 

The coating on the booster piston doesn't have anything to do with increasing reliability either. We tested many, many finishes and the best being teflon was still not a measurable difference in cycling reliability. On top of that teflon is no good in this application as it is soft and wears away and also breaks down under the heat of the gasses.

 

The Booster piston is the same size as the factory piston.

[2 new Saiga pistons from MD Arms, LTD]

PLEASE NOTE: If your Saiga doesn't have any problems ejecting low power ammo fired from the hip out of a fully loaded MD-20 20rd drum this isn't the piston for you and our Stainless Saiga Piston will better meet your needs and can be ordered by clicking here. The Booster piston is not recommended for use with high power ammo unless you have replaced the factory gas plug with the MD Arms V-Plug. Using high brass ammo in combination with the Booster Piston and the factory gas plug will over work the system. Also please note that although the increase in cycling power is significant it is still not enough to account for a missing gas port in your Saiga.

 

I'm currently using the factory puck and plug and my S12 will FTE every time If I try shooting from the hip, but it cycles flawlessly when I fire from the shoulder. Will this booster puck really make that much of a difference?

It most definately will. If you can fire from the shoulder with the factory no problem it will definately make your gun fire from the hip no problem with the booster piston. I will dig out some test results and post them. But in brief one new from the box 19inch 3 portgun that had a few ftes from a fully loaded MD-20 with Federal bulk pack from the shoulder would cycle very losely held from the hip using whinchest bulk and even a low recoil remington that was only 2 3/4 dram (instead of the bulk pack 3 dram). That exact ammo was Remington Permier STS Light Target 2 3/4 dram, 1 1/8 oz shot. The factory piston wasn't even thinking about firing this ammo or winchest bulk from the shoulder buyt did all day without fail from the hip with the booster plug. I know a couple pistons exist that claim to increase reliability. The V-Plug increases the reliability more than the KA piston and we don't advertise the V-Plug as a reliability increaser... I am very comfortably advertising the booster piston as such though. I know many are gun-shy when it comes to increased reliability from pistons because they have all really feel way short but like I said, there is no other piston on the market that increases cycling power like the booster plug. They don't even come close! When MD Arms makes a statement about one of our items you can take it to the bank. I am very careful that what we claim is not easily arguable. I'll go through the test data and post the exact numbers, firing postion, and ammo from this gun in discusion. But I do garantee it.

[2 new Saiga pistons from MD Arms, LTD]

I am wondering if the Booster model will be capable of overcoming the difference I anticipate if I take my stock barrel back to 18.25 inch, counting the muzzle brake...

I haven't tested this yet. I did test in a 24 inch cut to 19 inches and it couldn't touch the deficencey there. It is hard to say. I will put it on my list to test. If you want to give it a try I can send you a sample.