Gandalf
-
Content Count
60 -
Joined
-
Last visited
Content Type
Profiles
Forums
Gallery
Blogs
Calendar
Store
Posts posted by Gandalf
-
-
Don't say such things. You intimidate mechanically impared people (like myself) from attempting it.
-
if you keep the rifle stock cant you just use hi cap mags in it? someone had told me yes without converting and now yall are saying you have to convert to us to do it
can you clarify this for me i like the long stock and the way it handles in stock form i just want to use ak mags so i dont have to reload all the time when i'm plinking around
It's a parts count issue. You can keep the Saiga stock on the rifle, assuming you replace enough other parts to keep the rifle compliant with the law. If you keep the original stock you will need to replace 4 parts (it's 5 if you add a pistol grip and six if you add a pistol grip and muzzle attachment).
For example, if you replace the fire control group (trigger, disconnector, hammer), that is three parts. If you replace the magazine floor plate and/or follower, that can be another one or two parts.
-
I see what you guys are sayin', consider the use of the gun! they make it in the 16" barrel because, the origonals are made in that length. isn't the 16.5" barrel standard on the origonal design (AK)? you get a higher muzzle velocity with the shorter barrel?!? better penetration?
I'll always go for the longer barrel, I think it makes up for any slop in the receiver - in the end. maybe I'm being stupid, I can't let it go! ..........I need therapy
For therapy you need to buy another Saiga and take it shooting. You'll feel happier and more relaxed in no time.
-
Interesting. I wonder why Saiga makes a 16" barrel 308? Does anybody make different barrels for the AK action? For that matter, with the ban over and the Russians our buds now, when is someone going to start making an American AK based rifle? Now that would be cool.
Hmmm...thinking about this. Why make a .308 with only a 16" barrel?
Well, If you want a CQB rifle with penetrating capabilities, it would work very well. Put a half-decent scope on it, and you're effective out to about 400+ yards. By "effective" I mean a combination of accuracy, penetration, and bullet drop.
If your looking for a 500+ yard rifle, I'd go with the longer barrel.
-
did anyone find a cool way to do the muzzle break? now that we can, I wouldn't mind tryin' one. it would be anyworse, I'm just not sure how much it will effect recoil and climb.
I understand Dinasystems has an adaptor that will fit Saigas. Joeken also had a push-on muzzle break for the Saiga, but I prefer the ability to screw it on and off for cleaning.
-
If the ban expiration sticks, the Saiga as you know it will become history and Izhmash will be shipping semi-auto AK's that will not require any modifications or other fooling around. Just give things some time.
Actually, I don't see any major changes in Saiga rifles for some time. Remember the '89 import law and its parts requirements. Russia can't ship AK rifles to the US in normal configuration, hence we get "Saiga" versions.
What Izhmash could do is officially partner up with an American importer that then adds the US parts. We would then see prices close to Vepr prices. I'd guess at least $450+ (remember, American parts + American labor).
I bought my Saiga .223 for $230. For about $130 I can easily convert it to a more classic pistol grip configuration.
Kvar buttstock + grip $50.00
RPBusa trigger group $30.00
Dinasystems muzzle brake $30.00
shipping $20
If you're willing to go without a muzzle accessory, you can do it with $100
Either way, with a little elbow grease I'm saving myself about $100 or more.
-
what would probably happen would be confiscation, where they could take it back to the station and investigate the whole thing, then you'd have to prove this! I don't know what kinda charges it would be! If it was a fellony you'd have to give up the rest of your aresonal! my advise would be to just do it, keep your reciepts.
getting pulled over on the way to your favorite shooting spot - might turn UGLY!
Well said.
I plan on taking pictures of the parts I buy complete with receipts. The packaging will probably say something to the effect of "made in USA". I also plan on keeping the old parts as evidence. I've noticed that buttstocks made in the USA sometimes have "US" stamped on them. I wouldn't be surprised if US mag floorplates have something similar stamped on them.
Keep your documentation in order, and it should be easy proving that you're compliant with the law. A quick look over the gun would probably be enough to resolve concerns, especially if "US" is stamped on visible parts.
-
Maybe it will help to think of the 1994/AWB as the Cosmetic Features Ban- Folding stocks, threadedbarrels, flash hiders, etc. That went away. What did not go away was the 1989 Import Restrictions. So- to 'convert' a Saiga to look like an AKM you are allowed no more than 10 foreign made listed parts in the finished gun. A factory stock Saiga has 15 parts. It is generally acknowledged that the parts to swap for US made are: Buttstock and pistol grip (2 parts), Fire control group (3 parts), Gas piston (1 part), Mag followers and floorplates (2 parts). If you choose to thread the barrel for a brake or flash hider, then that must be US made also. This only deals with federal laws/rules. It is up to you to be aware of your local or state regulations.
PM2790,
I actually think a stock Saiga comes with 14 parts. If you convert it to a thumbhole/choate/dragunov stock you only have to use 4 US parts.
Putting on a pistol grip separate from the buttstock is adding one part to the total, hence you have to make sure to use 5 US parts in that case. You are right about how a muzzle accessory also adds to the count, so we have to be careful there too.
Anybody correct me if I'm wrong about this.
So, if I understand this correctly, I could do the following legally:
1. Put in new US made fire control group (3 parts)
2. Put US made floor plates and mag followers into all my mags (2 parts)
3. Install Russian/Romanian/German/Polish/etc. buttstock
4. Install US made pistol grip (1 part)
5. Install US made muzzle break (1 part)
The Saiga would now have 16 parts with 7 of them US made and 9 imported. The danger, however, would be the magazines. I'd have to either stick with ONLY using my own magazines with the US parts, or make very sure that any other mags I use also have US parts. Otherwise the imported part count would jump to 11.
-
right on gandalf. thats part of growing up is shooting, and Im glad to see others teaching the kids out there that fact of life. I bet the higher scores were partly due to the open iron sights as opposed to the AR's peep sight. a peep is a pain in the butt.
Thanks Bvamp. My eyesight isn't the greatest and it was a strain to use the peep sights. It would take my eyes several seconds to focus through the sights, and then several seconds more for them to adjust back to normal once I finished shooting. The Saiga sights are somewhat crude, but much more forgiving on the eyes.
Oh, here's an irony from the shooting experience. No boys were hurt in any way from the AR or the AK rifles (of course we had an adult sitting right by each boy, supervising him as he used the rifles), but we did have one injury...from a deer rifle! The third adult brought his .270. One of the boys, having become accustomed to the light recoil of the AR and Saiga, tried the .270. He was totally caught off guard by the recoil even though we warned him. The scope bumped his forehead and gave him a little cut above his eyebrow.
Don't worry, I saw his mom that evening, and she said he came home excited about his experience. He apparently was proud of his little "battle scar".
-
On Saturday I was invited to help with the Varsity Boy Scouts and their rifle merit badge. One Scout Master brought his AR15 and I brought my Saiga .223. Each boy was carefully taught the basics (safety rules, proper technique, etc.) and allowed to fire three groups of three shots from each rifle. Between each three shot group the scouts got to go see how they were shooting and what they needed to do to do better.
I'll admit that during the practice shooting, I was feeling a little ashamed. The AR was getting much better groups than the Saiga. Some boys couldn't even hit paper with the Saiga.
Then came the competition. Each person, 4 boys and 3 adults, was given five shots with each firearm. I could hardly believe the results. The highest score from the boys came from the Saiga!
I thought maybe it was a stroke of luck.After that the adults had their turn. I was sure that the scout master with the AR was going to win. Especially since he just finished his time in the Army. Well, once again the Saiga pulled through. My AR score tied his, and my Saiga score was even better than the AR score!
So in the end, the Saiga scored the highest points both for the boys and the men. In all fairness, the AR usually had much better groupings. The Saiga was just more consistant about hitting the bullseye. On the way home, Aaron (the AR15 owner) was talking about the Scout activity and after commenting on how much he likes his AR, admitted that he was very impressed with the Saiga.
I am one very happy Saiga owner.Oh, and another reason to be proud of the Saiga. Both rifles were dirty from use before the Varsity Scout activity. The AR jammed several times, and one time jammed so bad that it took over 5 minutes to pry the bullet out. The Saiga jammed twice from the magazine not being properly inserted, but it never took more than a few seconds to clear it and continue shooting. Gotta love that AK reliability.
-
Thanks for the info Bvamp. I was just thinking about how to secure the muzzle break (press on). Know what? I think I'll just find a short non-folding stock to put on and not worry about the length issue. I hate tip-toeing around grey areas of the law.
-
sounds like the british red coats being able to come to your house and stay whenever they want! or the nazi soldiers, raiding and storming your house whenever they want, except instead of jews it's your gun they have control over.
First the nazis made sure to take the guns. Then, when the population had nothing to defend themselves, the nazis came for the jews.
I don't like the pattern I'm seeing.
-
Well I don't plan on shortening my barrel at all. In fact, I'm planning on adding a muzzle break. So if anything the barrel length + m.b. will be over 17 inches.
I'll check my state laws.
-
Once the Clinton-Feinstein gun ban ends and folding stocks become legal again, how short can I make my Saiga and still have it be legal?
I measured my Saiga last night, and from the tip of the barrel to the back end of the receiver it was over 25 inches. I figure that even a folding stock would still put it over 26 inches.
Would 26 inches be legal by federal standards? Or are the standards set by each state?
-
joeken firearms sells a us made saiga muzzle brake. fits over the oversized barrel.
Thanks Mrapathy2000 for the information. I've been planning my conversion and trying to figure out what I can and can't do. I'm sure I'll be referring back to that list often.
Oh, and Bigfoot Wallace, thanks for pointing out Joeken. I've heard conflicting reports about them. Some people like them, and others strongly dislike them.
-
I have a question. I'm doing a conversion of my Saiga and I'm going to replace 5 parts with US made parts to make the conversion legal.
Once I do the conversion, can I add any imported parts, such as a muzzle brake, and still keep it legal, or do I have to only add US made parts?
-
I've got short arms, and want to be able to bring the rifle in close while still keeping the stock at my shoulder. What are good options for short American made buttstocks?
I like the paratrooper-style metal skeleton buttstocks, but I'm open to hearing about the other styles too, including the dragunov styles.
Thanks.
-
you must convert that saiga before and after the 14th of september. though do follow all state and federal laws please.
stock from www.k-var.com if you want dragunov www.ultimak.com for choate dragunov comes with ak handguard for $50 vs whole set from k-var for $80
www.tapco.com or rpbusa for fire control group trigger,hammer,disconnector maybe gas piston. want more evil features go buy em. make sure you have 5 US parts if you go pistol grip. no pistol grip 4 parts to use AK mags.
Mrapathy2000 has spoken. So let it be written, so let it be done!
I shall banish my fears of AK tinkering.
When the conversion is complete, it shall be unveiled for the world to see! Then my Saiga and I shall slay many a water-filled milk jug and two-liter plastic bottles. Ah yes, the mighty milk jug. A noble beast indead. Truly worthy of hollow points.
I shall say many a "Hail Kalashnikov" while firing his creation in joy...thus my penitence will be complete....
Err...Umm...I mean, yes, I'll get going on the conversion right away.
-
flash hider,collapseable stock,bayonet lug,pistol grip.
Yes, I'm sure there will be some AK's in the market with those features. My question is whether or not Saiga's will have those things. I thought Saiga firearms were regulated under import laws that are different than the AWB. Am I wrong?
god forbid you take it to a smith and have it installed. or do it yourself within limits of law AWB sunsetted.
[hangs head in shame]
Yes, you are correct. What do I need to do for my penitence?
I guess I better just get together what I need for the conversion. The current stock is causing me problems because I have short arms. Putting the stock to my shoulder pushes the receiver too far out in front of me to be very effective.
-
flash hider,collapseable stock,bayonet lug,pistol grip.
Yes, I'm sure there will be some AK's in the market with those features. My question is whether or not Saiga's will have those things. I thought Saiga firearms were regulated under import laws that are different than the AWB. Am I wrong?
-
What changes for us Saiga owners after the end of the Clinton-Feinstein AWB ends? "Normal" capacity mags? Anything else?
-
I'm very curious. What can we expect in regards to Saiga products after the end of the Clinton-Feinstein AWB?
Will there be "normal" capacity magazines for our rifles and shotguns? Since Saigas are effected by import laws, is there any chance of getting different configurations at all, or are we stuck unless we do the conversion ourselves?
I ask because I'd hate to be stuck out in the cold like a red-headed stepchild after the end of the '94 AWB.
I wish we could order the Saiga firearms "ready to convert". Imagine if the Saiga rifles came in the original AK configuration minus the furniture and trigger group. Then, all we'd have to do to convert it is put on the furniture and trigger group, instead of the dremmeling, cutting, etc. that we have to do now. Has anyone looked into this possibility?
-
Feeding Wolf hollow points
and Federal FMJ, I've never had a single problem with reliability. This gun was designed to take proprietary magazines. Using those mags, I don't see how you could have a problem. -
I see. Hmmm... sounds like false advertising to me.
Another "Parts Count" question...
in Saiga 7.62 X 39
Posted
Sure you can put a folding stock on it, as long as your parts count is correct and the rifle length is long enough (with the stock folded). Do you plan to use a US made stock or foreign one?