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Odd Man Out

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  2. Gun control RED ALERT!

    in General Discussion - Any topic is welcome here!!!

    Posted

    I just wrote the following to my "representatives":

     

         "I am writing to urge you to NOT support Gun Bill HR3999.  It is a blatant attempt to abridge the 2nd amendment.  It is an ill defined and not thought out bill and will only lead to immediate criminalization of current law abiding citizens -- myself being one.  I tell you this from my heart: the 2nd amendment is the only one that helps to secure all others and I for one will be willing to lay down my life to protect it.  I would bet that there are a million others that are of like mind as myself.  HR 3999 will only introduce chaos and bloodshed if enacted.  I pray that you will strongly oppose it.  Thank you."

     

    I feel like it is pissing in the wind but sitting and doing nothing is not an option on this.  WTF else can we do?????

    • Like 1

  15. TRUMP WINS!!!!

    in General Discussion - Any topic is welcome here!!!

    Posted

    I am not downing Mattis.  As a retired .mil type I like the dude but Darth, you sound like a dimocrat after being asked about hitlery's decision on Benghazi...  I say let's find out what happened.  Put Mattis in front of Trey Gowdy and let's get the truth.  Mattis can handle it and if there is nothing behind the charges it can be cleared up and dissipated because you know if it is not the dimocrats will make it their Benghazi for the next ??? years... 

  16. Hunting Hitler

    in General Discussion - Any topic is welcome here!!!

    Posted

    I think he's implying that a Jewish person about Hitler's size killed himself, to portray Hitler as a coward.

     

    DNA evidence checked later showed that the body of "Hitler" from the bunker was actually a woman.

    You mean the Russian held skull fragment with the small bullet hole..  yup it has been debunked.  My wife brought up something interesting that I've never thought of -- she wondered if it could be from Eva Braun???

     

     

    The piece of evidence that needs to be debunked for me to really get into this show is the part of the lower mandible that is supposed to be Hitler's.  The dentistry has been pretty conclusive -- Hitler had some pretty unique and messed up teeth and the jaw fragment matches...

     

    I have pasted an article on the subject.  It is long but (to me) very interesting.

     

     

     

     

     

     

    The Woman Who Held Hitler's Teeth

     

    by Bess Lovejoy

     

    AUG 18, 2015 3:05 PM

     

    IMAGE BY KAT AILEEN

    In the days following the end of WWII, translator Elena Rzhevskaya was tasked with a bizarre job: protecting a jewelry box containing the only irrefutable proof of Hitler's death.

    When we hear the name Hitler, we don't often think about his cavities. Given the towering history of World War II, it's odd to consider its architects as real human beings, with bad breath and stomach trouble, shoes that hurt, compressed spines, and artificial teeth. Hitler, for all that he was portrayed as an archetype of evil, was also a man of flesh and blood who eventually became a corpse. And when he died, proof of his death was carried through the ruins of Berlin by a young woman who found herself thrust into some of strangest, and most strangely human, moments of the end of the war.

    During the spring of 1945, Elena Kagan was a 25-year-old war widow working as a German translator with the Soviet Red Army. Born to a well-off family of Moscow Jews, she had been a literature student and young mother when the war broke out. Her husband, an intellectual writer, was killed early in the conflict, and Kagan says she enlisted with the army as a way to feed her daughter. Her knowledge of German proved essential for interrogating prisoners, but her most memorable task began on April 29, 1945, when she was assigned to a team of three charged with finding Hitler, dead or alive. Her memoir of her war days, first published as "Berlin Notes" in a Soviet literary magazine in 1965, provided the world with the first details about how Hitler's body had been found and identified. A fuller version of her memoir went on to appear in more than ten languages, but has never been published in English, aside from selections in obscure journals and anthologies.

    In her writings, Kagan--who later changed her name to Rzhevskaya in honor of the city of Rzhev, where she first experienced the full extent of the war--describes her compassion for the captured German soldiers, many barely adults, their bloodshot eyes wild with terror, and for the German women who were treated as war booty. She writes of orphans and cows wandering the bombed-out streets, soldiers getting drunk on the fine wines left by the fleeing Nazis, a Russian telegraphist trying on Eva Braun's long white evening dress, and, finally, what it was like to walk around carrying Hitler's teeth.

    She was given the teeth on May 8, eight days after Hitler's death, when they were placed in a red jewelry box for her safekeeping. "I don't know where they found the box," she writes in the latest version of her recollections, Memoirs of a Wartime Interpreter, a translated extract of which was provided by her literary agency to Broadly. "It was old, dark claret in color, with a soft satin lining inside--the kind of box made for perfumes or for cheap jewelry... That entire day was infused with the sense of approaching victory, and it was a great burden to carry this box around the whole time, feeling a rush of cold inside at the thought that I might accidentally forget it somewhere. The box weighed heavy on me. It oppressed me."

    The day Rzhevskaya refers to, May 8, was the day Germany signed an act of surrender, and much of the world erupted in celebration. It was also the day of Hitler's autopsy at a makeshift morgue in a clinic in Buch, on the northwest outskirts of Berlin. Rzhevskaya reports that she didn't come to close to the "roughly made crates with their awful black remains inside," but she describes the difficult search for Hitler's body, rife with confusion and false positives.

    The box weighed heavy on me. It oppressed me.

    Hitler had committed suicide in his bunker beneath the chancellery on April 30, 1945, and asked his aides to burn his body until nothing remained. He didn't want his body to be displayed in some Moscow waxworks, he declared, or in a "spectacle arranged by Jews." But the Soviets remained unaware of his fate until the next day, when General Hans Krebs exited the bunker and, as part of a failed attempt to negotiate an armistice, informed a Soviet commander that Hitler was dead.

    Several days later, a Soviet soldier found the half-charred bodies of a man and a woman buried inside a shell crater near the bunker's emergency exit. He'd noticed the tip of a gray blanket peeking out from the crater, which matched descriptions--produced by interrogating the few aides who remained in the bunker--of the blanket in which Hitler and Eva Braun's corpses had been wrapped. The bodies were accompanied by two dogs, later identified as Hitler's beloved Blondi and one of her pups. Surrounding the dead were several dark-colored medicine phials, pages of handwriting, money, and a metal medallion that read, "Let me be with you forever."

    Soldiers packed the remains into wooden ammunition crates, and Rzhevskaya and her team accompanied them to the morgue in Buch. Hitler's autopsy was directed by Colonel Faust Iosifovich Shkaravsky but performed by a woman, Major Anna Yakovlevna Marants. She noted that the corpse was badly carbonized, giving off the "odor of burned meat," and only the jaws remained relatively unscathed. The doctors pried the bones loose, and then Rzhevskaya was given the claret-colored box.

    Teeth are like signatures--no two people have the same set. Unlike signatures, they're hard to forge. They've been used to identify bodies in criminal trials since the mid-19th century, and the Soviet doctors knew that Hitler's jaws would be key to proving his death to the world.

    After the autopsies, around midnight, Rzhevskaya's team heard news of Germany's surrender on the radio. "Silently we poured wine," she writes. "I put the little box on the floor. Silently the three of us clinked glasses, filled with emotion, disheveled, lost for words, as the sounds of fireworks in Moscow came through the radio. I ran back down the steep staircase to the ground floor... I will never forget the feeling that rushed over me at that moment. Was this really happening to me? Was this really me standing there at the hour of Germany's surrender clutching a box containing the last remaining irrefutable proof about Hitler?"

    When dawn broke the next morning, Rzhevskaya and her team set off to search for anyone with information about Hitler's mouth. Driving through what remained of Berlin's roads, dotted with collapsed buildings and thick with refugees, they found a still-functioning hospital, where they asked a doctor for the name of Hitler's dentist. The doctor had no clue, but he directed them to a famous laryngologist, Carl von Eicken, who had treated Hitler. A Bulgarian student working at Eicken's clinic knew the name of Hitler's dentist, Professor Blaschke, and climbed into Rzhevskaya's car to direct them to his dental office on one of Berlin's poshest streets. There, a doctor emerged wearing a red ribbon in his buttonhole, "a sign of welcome and solidarity with the Russians," Rzhevskaya writes. He explained that Hitler's dentist had fled, but that his dental assistant, Käthe Hausermann, lived just a few doors down.

    Was this really me standing there clutching a box containing the last remaining irrefutable proof about Hitler?

    Hausermann walked in wearing a blue coat; Rzhevskaya describes her as a tall, attractive woman in her mid-thirties, blond hair escaping a scarf tied around her head. Upon seeing the Russians, she began to weep. She had been raped by Soviet soldiers before and had to be convinced this group was friendly. Once calmed, she was asked to describe her memory of Hitler's teeth. The location of his crowns and a sawn-through upper left bridge matched the teeth in the jewelry box, but Rzhevskaya's team needed further proof. Hausermann led them to a tiny, mildewed dental office in Hitler's bunker, where she produced Hitler's dental x-rays. The images--the placement of root canal fillings, sites of bone breakdown, and unusual bridges--confirmed that the body found in the rubble outside the chancellery had belonged to Hitler. A dental technician named Fritz Echtmann, who had worked in the same laboratory as Hausermann and created crowns and bridges for both Hitler and Eva Braun, verified the findings.

    Later, when Rzhevskaya asked Hausermann why she had remained in Berlin instead of fleeing alongside her boss, the dental assistant replied that she had lost contact with her fiancé and wanted to stay in Berlin so he would be able to find her. (She had also buried a cache of dresses outside the city, "saving them from the bombs and the flames," Rzhevskaya writes, and wanted to stay close to them.) After the war, Hausermann would be deported to the Soviet Union, to spend ten years in Russian labor camps. Her crime? Having helped sustain a bourgeois regime through dental work.

    With the confirmation in place, Rzhevskaya wrote a letter to her family in Moscow telling them she would soon be coming home. That didn't happen--as far as Stalin was concerned, there was still work to do. The American press reported that Hitler's body had been found, but the Russian media encouraged the idea that Hitler was still in hiding. In fact, Stalin would eventually keep the truth about Hitler's death from even his top commanders. In fact, when Rzhevskaya later met the commander who had led the assault on Germany and captured Berlin, Georgy Zhukov, in the 1960s, he asked her: "Is Hitler really dead?"

    While awaiting word from Stalin about what to do next, Rzhevskaya's team moved to the small town of Finow, where they had the remains in the wooden boxes secretly sent to them. Late one night, they buried the boxes in the forest. Stalin dispatched a general to confirm their findings, then sent word that although he was satisfied, he would not make the results public because the "capitalist encirclement remain[ed] in place." Rzhevskaya wasn't allowed to return to Moscow for months. Meanwhile, Hitler's remains were moved to a military base in Magdeburg in 1946, and in 1970, before the base was returned to German control, they were exhumed, burned again, ground into dust, and thrown into a tributary of the Elbe river. Hitler had finally achieved the task he commanded his aides to carry out after death--no trace of him remained on this earth. Well, except for those jaws.

    The placement of root canal fillings, sites of bone breakdown, and unusual bridges confirmed that the body found in the rubble had belonged to Hitler.

    Rzhevskaya says she has long pondered Stalin's decision not to announce the confirmation of Hitler's death. In Memoirs of a Wartime Interpreter, she notes that "the system that Stalin built could only survive as long as it had an enemy to face, both within and without... If Hitler was still alive then it meant that Nazism had not yet been completely defeated and the world would remain in a state of tension"--tension that Stalin hoped to manipulate to his own ends. Stalin encouraged reports saying that Hitler had fled to Argentina, was being sheltered by Franco in Spain, or had been spotted hiding in various outposts around the world. By Rzhevskaya's account, he needed his old enemy.

    But Rzhevskaya was determined that the world should know the truth. Still alive at age 95 and residing in Moscow, where she's an accomplished writer with several memoirs and six war novels to her credit, she says she battled state censorship for years before publishing her accounts of the war's last days. "By the will of fate," she writes, "I came to take part in ensuring that Hitler was unable to achieve his final objective of disappearing, turning into a myth."

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    On Hitler's Teeth - or, the Death of a Dictator.

    Alongside his many other faults, Adolf Hitler had very bad teeth -catastrophically bad teeth.  It is not clear precisely why - bad genes, bad diet or poor personal hygiene - but some among his entourage would later claim that his halitosis was sometimes so bad that they involuntarily took a step back when talking to him.  By the last year of the war, his teeth had deteriorated to such a state that only 5 of his 32 adult teeth were his own.  This X-Ray of Hitler's skull, taken in the autumn of 1944 in the aftermath of the 20th July Bomb Plot, shows the scale of the problem.  The dark patches where his teeth should be are crowns, with only the five front teeth of Hitler's bottom jaw showing as his own.

     

    An apple a day...

     

    Given that Hitler had the teeth of a Berlin hobo, therefore, he required some elaborate dentistry to conceal the dark truth.  Consequently, his dentist Hugo Blaschke constructed a network of gold crowns and bridges with porcelain veneers inside the Führer's mouth.  Now, to any German of that generation, working in close proximity to their leader would have been a memorable experience, but for Blaschke and his assistants - Käthe Heusermann and Fritz Echtmann - it was also the complex dentistry that stuck in their minds, not least the famed "telephone bridge" that spanned a crown in Hitler's lower jaw. 

     

     

    Such recollections were to come in useful.  Though Blaschke escaped to the south and was eventually captured by the Americans, and the dental records were destroyed in the Börnersdorf plane crash (which also ultimately spawned the "Hitler Diaries" fiasco), the two assistants - Heusermann and Echtmann remained in Berlin and were duly arrested by the Soviets.  Under interrogation, they were asked to describe Hitler's elaborate dentistry from memory - Heusermann had been Blaschke's dental assistant, and Echtmann had crafted the bridges.  They did so; they also produced sketches - Heusermann's sketch (complete with Russian annotation) is here..

     

     

     

     

     

    Then, on 9 May 1945, Heusermann and Echtmann were shown pieces of jaw that the Soviets had retrieved from one of the 14 or so charred corpses that had been discovered in the Reich Chancellery garden the week before.  Both immediately affirmed that the teeth and bone that they were handling were indeed those of Adolf Hitler.  The dentistry on show also conformed precisely to what the two had described and sketched prior to being shown the remains.  The teeth were Hitler's. 

     

     

    Thereafter - according to Heusermann, who was flown back to Moscow for 10 years of further questioning - the teeth were carried around in a cigar box and were opened referred to by their NKVD handlers as "Hitler". These, incidentally, are the same jaw fragments that are still kept in the Moscow Special Archive. Clearly, it seems, the Soviets were convinced that the teeth in their possession were those of Hitler and - logically - that Hitler was therefore dead. Indeed, in mid-May, Soviet intelligence officers confirmed to their Western counterparts that Hitler had "been poisoned" and Zhukov admitted to Khrushchev that they had found Hitler's "charred carcass".

     

    Hitler's teeth, with the 'telephone bridge' (right)

     

     

    Sadly, however, within a few days Soviet leaders had opted to deny the obvious and chose instead to sow confusion over Hitler's death, insinuating that the German dictator had somehow survived and had escaped to the Western zones of occupation - thereby giving themselves an excellent stick with which to beat the West in the opening exchanges of the Cold War.  It is the subsequent campaign of disinformation and obfuscation that led to the outlandish tales of Hitler's survival - in the jungles of Patagonia, in fascist Spain, or in the secret Nazi base on the moon - that occasionally resurface to this day.  

     

    Of course, it should be clear from this brief essay that if Hitler did in fact escape Berlin, we have to assume that he did so missing both his upper and lower jaw.  That 'escaped Hitler' would not only have to have been a master of disguise and have had the escapology skills of a Houdini - he would have been a medical miracle...

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    Really Bad Teeth

    Hitler [1] had very bad teeth and a very bad breath. Before the war, he asked Blaschke, his dentist, to immobilize his teeth with a dental bridge. He wanted that bridge to be placed for several years. Thus, Blaschke made an unusual and easy-to-recognize solid metal bridge.

    End of war…Beginning of the investigation…

    On April 30, 1945, Hitler committed suicide. His body was burnt in a bomb crater in the garden of the Chancellery next to a hospital and amongst other corpses which were buried afterwards.

    Despite the investigation of British officer Trevor-Roper and despite being approached diplomatically, the Russians did not answer any questions concerning this affair until 1954. It was only that year, when Blaschke’s dental prosthetist, Fritz Echtmann, was realeased from prison, [2]; –he had been interned in Russia for nine years- that the entire world learnt about the exact fate of the Führer and his wife. On October 15, Echtmann stipulated that he had been arrested by the Russian secret services on May 9, 1945 in his house in Berlin. On the same year, once she was also released and back from Russia, Blaschke’s assistant, Käthe Heusermann [3] attested to also have been arrested on May 9, 1945.

    Post-mortem examinations

    The Führer’s body was only found again on May 3, 1945 by Smersh agents, the counter-intelligence department in the Soviet Army. On May 8, he was brought in a hospital of Berlin’s suburbs to be examined. On May 9, his dentures (Figure 1) found on the cadaver were shown to the assistant of Hitler’s personal dentist [2] and to the dental mechanic who had made them. Echtmann [4] recalled that the Soviets had shown him a lower jaw which had been cremated with two gold bridges and another one divided into nine pieces which was also in gold and which was coming from his jawbone. Indisputably, he remembered the work he did for Hitler. He was shown a gold-filled bridge, which was similar to that of the mandible that Eva Braun used to wear. When he was imprisoned, he submitted an additional nine-page report on the matter.

    1.      

    View Full Image

    Figure 1:

    Fragment of Adolf Hitler’s mandible [14]. 

     

     

    In the same time, the assistant identified the various elements of dental prosthesis that were being shown to her. Both of them remembered well the red box in which Hitler’s remains were stored, and of the tall blond interpreter who permitted discussions with the Russians.

    Those two statements were published and yet, doubts remained. The need of an official report without flaws and coming to an indisputable and irrefutable conclusion became obvious.

    First public revelations

    In 1965, Yelena Rzevskaya, the blond interpreter whom Echtmann and Heusermann mentioned, published a report entitled «Berlin, May 1945» in a Soviet magazine. This work was published as a book and translated into numerous languages in 1967. This work told how the Russians discovered thirteen charred corpses in the gardens of the Chancellery, how, in the following days; they were examined by a commission of five specialists conducted by lieutenant-colonel Faust Schkarawski in the hospital of Russian field n° 496 of Berlin-Buch.

    On the afternoon of May 8, the commission handed over a red box to the Smersh. It contained jawbones and gold bridges from bodies n°12 and 13 who were suspected to be Hitler’s and Eva Braun’s. This box was handed over to the interpreter.

    The following day, the Smersh were looking for Hugo Blaschke, his dental prosthetist and his assistant. At the clinic of Kurfürstendamm, they found out that the dentist had left Berlin for Berchtesgaden under the Führer’s command on April 19. However, they succeeded in taking in the two others for questioning.

    They were asked about the content of the red box which was shown to them. All that they said was immediately recorded before they had the chance to examine the human remains.

    On May 10, the Smersh sent a report to Moscow. It concluded that the two remaining bodies had been identified as Hitler and Eva Braun’s remains [4].

    The red box and its content were sent back to the Soviet capital.

    Lew Besymenski, a Russian journalist

    In 1966, Lew Besymenski, a Russian journalist and cultural attaché for West Germany, published a book entitled « Der Tod des Adolf Hitler (Adolf Hitler’s death) » which was also translated into several languages including French in 1969 by the Plon Editions. In that work, Colonel Gorbushin’s words were quoted, the director of the Russian secret services, those of colonel Schkarawski as well as those of other members of the commission in charge of the post-mortem examination of the corpses. The complete transcriptions of the examination sessions of the thirteen bodies as well as pictures of pieces of bridges could also be found in the book. For the very first time, dental experts from different countries could examine from few post-mortem elements that Hitler and Eva Braun’s identification had been carried out. The issue was that Besymenski’s book did not give other comparative perspectives of other post-mortem elements. Indeed, the book never mentioned elements from the dictator’s dental file as well as his X-rays copies. Consequently, no verification of the final results was made possible [4].

    Pr Reidar Sognnaes and his Investigations

    In 1971, Dr Ferdinand Strøm from Oslo asked for Dr Reidar Sognnaes’s help (Figure 4), UCLA dental school’s former dean (University of California, Los Angeles). Strøm recalled Sognnaes that the Americans had captured Blaschke in Berchtesgaden in November 1945. Thus, there was an interrogation report in the army’s archives in Washington. Given Pr Sognnaes’s rank, they wondered if he might get further information on that affair.

    The preeminent practitioner immediately went to the capital and was allowed to research in the national archives. Soon, he found the American secret services’ file on Blaschke’s interrogation which was conducted on November/December 1945. Without these files and the X-rays copies, the Nazi recalled Hitler’s, Eva Braun’s and Bormann’s teeth. Comparing with Besymenski’s photographs, common features were found and yet differences were also obvious.

    After further investigations, Sognnaes found five X-ray copies of Hitler’s had, three dating from September 1944 and two from October 21, 1944. This set of photographs was made because the dictator was suffering from sinus problems. Those images gave more details concerning the dental work carried out in his mouth and were indisputable. The professor had found objective documents identifying indisputably Adolf Hitler [5].

    Epilogue

    During the 6th meeting of the International Academy of Legal Medicine in Edinburgh, Sognnaes and Strøm [6] confirmed the identification of Hitler from his teeth to a group of international experts. The two men published their results in the following article:

    Sognnaes R. F. & Ström F., The odontological identification of Adolf Hitler. Definitive documentation by X-Rays, interrogation and autopsy findings, in Acta Odontologica Scandinavica, Feb. 1973; 31 (1): 43-69 [4,5].

    Adolf Hitler’s teeth are displayed in a Ukrainian museum.

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