dochoc
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Posts posted by dochoc
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At least the mag wasn't wobbling all over the place. I'd rather have to fit. Sounds like a winner.
Agreed. Not so long ago a US made Saiga assembled from top notch materials, with operating parts machined from solid billet was almost too much to hope for.
Given the way these are made, a $900 price tag isn't surprising. Hopefully (since the factory already has the capability to create one) we'll see a Version 030 iteration of the gun sometime in the not too distant future.
Mike the 030 version is available now in Europe. A Turkish company has done a similar licensing deal, but decided to produce a clone of the 030 version. They are called Armsan, and they are calling it the RS-S1. They are also making 10 round mags that are less than half the cost of the saiga/vepr versions. Time will tell on if they are reliable ! I picked one up yesterday. Not fired it yet but others report favourably. Vepr 12 mags will fit and function with the LRBHO, if they have the Saiga recess cut into the mag lip. Standard Saiga magwell mags will fit but don't obviously work the LRBHO. I would assume that 030 mags will also work and action the LRBHO. First impressions are that the mags will need to be fitted to the gun, as they are quite stiff to insert, and don't drop free. The vepr /saiga mags that belong to a magwell version pre 030 glide in like silk and drop free. The mag release will also need work as you cannot really action it without taking a hand off the gun. All small issues and very easily corrected. I assume that as with the other Turkish guns, Akda, UTAS, Bora etc that these will be readily available over there?
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I have found since fitting my Molot brake that the shot pattern with birdshot and buckshot has opened up quite noticeably. In the UK we mainly have to use fibre loads, as plastic is not allowed at most clubs. However I have used plastic where permitted and found that the pattern spreading is common to both. Unbuffered buckshot seems to be the worst affected, and gave me great problems in the recent world shoot in Italy. I believe some of the Italian cartridge manufactures worked with the Italian team to fine tune the loads, and they definitely seemed to have cracked the problem. The Russian teams also seemed to have no issues. I have sourced some of the new Italian buffered buckshot used out there and plan to do some back to back testing.
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Check with cobra's customs. He sells them, but I don't know if he will do international shipping.
The next closes thing is the DPH flash hider style one.
Thank you for the tip GunFun, I will email him.
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Hi
Need some help the other side of the pond. I desperately need to get hold of an ak-builder Choke adapter. Unfortunately they do not ship internationally and have no UK supplier. I wonder if anyone would be able to source one from them and send it on. This is not a restricted item in the UK, being treated as an accessory. At the moment these are listed on the website at $39.95. Shipments to the UK have to be under $99 to not require an import licence,so this is what I can pay. Obviously I would pay the money upfront on trust. If anyone can help please send me a PM. For clarity this is the item:
Saiga 12 Slotted Choke Tube AdapterCODE: C2-42
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As the factory have set the OAL to a different length than would be achieved by simply screwing the rod all the way in, I would suggest that it would be important to keep this length. After all it would be easier and quicker to just screw it all the way in, so why haven't they?
I am in the same boat, as my carrier has cracked ,and needs welding. It was always 'loose and wobbly' out of the box. I propose to have a longer op rod machined up, and then shave it down progressively until the original OAL is achieved with the rod screwed in tight, then pin the rod in place.
You could use shim stock to take up the slack, but a longer rod seemed a more elegant solution. Might even try to get a Titanium version done if I can find someone to do it !
I do have slight concerns that if the factory left the rod 'loose and wobbly' that there may be a reason, and that I may be changing the function by tightening the rod up. Will have to see. The R&R carrier I think has a tight rod and seems to work well.
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Can certainly be done. I know a lot of people shooting Saigas at the Hungary world shoot were using the Molot magwells and mags. The enlarged competition magwell with the extended sides was most common. Don't know how difficult it would be without a machine shop behind you.
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Thanks for clearing that up. The reason I was after a steel Brake ,,was that due to the barrel length laws in the UK the Brake would need to be permanently fixed to the barrel so it cannot be removed. Maybe the Al version could be silver soldered as a permanent fix?
I repeat again ALL Al version has steel insert, glued to Al Body. You can also glue steel insert with loctite to barrel. To remove MB after loctite, you'll need high temp.
Glueing with loctite would not unfortunately be considered a permanent fix in the uk. Welding or brazing/silver soldering is the only thing that would be allowed.
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I've got one from Oleg m8 ,
The barrel does need chopping back a bit to make it perfect.There are 3 options chop it back to 24" and get it threaded for a polychoke(which will add a couple back on) do the same thing but chop it back further and permanently fix the polychoke on (this will add about 1" over because you can't count the removable bit of the choke) and 3 Buy a Molot Gk-01 brake get the barrel chopped WAY back and re threaded internally for your original chokes and then get your brake permanently attached. You will need a long handled choke tool but they are easy enough to make.
I'm probably gonna go for option 3 eventually but i suspect its gonna cost a fair amount.
Mind you mine cycles 24g cartridges with the long barrel and yes i do sporting clays with it
Hi Abbadon
How would you fix the molot brake to the barrel permanently? I believe the current Brake is forged aluminium which obviously could not be welded to the barrel. Early brakes were made in steel which would be ideal. Do you have a source of these steel brakes? This is the route that I am currently trying to go down but I cant find a steel molot brake!
Molot has never made Muzlle brake from steel except a dozen of Efimov design muzzle brake, known as Polygon, Vsevolod Ilyns design muzzle brake, known as Molot GK-1, made from aluminum with steel insert that glued to Al MB body with loctite.
Pic of Efimovs muzzle brake-compensator (Polygon) made by Polygon, modified by Vsevolod Ilyn
Pic of Efimovs muzzle brake-compensator (PSH-2) made by Gunstuning Laboratories and Molot Flash hider
Pic of Vsevolod Ilyns muzzle brake-compensator GK-01 made by Molot from Ti
Pic of Vsevolod Ilyns muzzle brake-compensator GK-01 made by Molot Arms from Al
Pic of Vsevolod Ilyns muzzle brake-compensator GK-01 made by IZMASH from Al
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Thanks for clearing that up. The reason I was after a steel Brake ,,was that due to the barrel length laws in the UK the Brake would need to be permanently fixed to the barrel so it cannot be removed. Maybe the Al version could be silver soldered as a permanent fix?
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I've got one from Oleg m8 ,
The barrel does need chopping back a bit to make it perfect.There are 3 options chop it back to 24" and get it threaded for a polychoke(which will add a couple back on) do the same thing but chop it back further and permanently fix the polychoke on (this will add about 1" over because you can't count the removable bit of the choke) and 3 Buy a Molot Gk-01 brake get the barrel chopped WAY back and re threaded internally for your original chokes and then get your brake permanently attached. You will need a long handled choke tool but they are easy enough to make.
I'm probably gonna go for option 3 eventually but i suspect its gonna cost a fair amount.
Mind you mine cycles 24g cartridges with the long barrel and yes i do sporting clays with it
Hi Abbadon
How would you fix the molot brake to the barrel permanently? I believe the current Brake is forged aluminium which obviously could not be welded to the barrel. Early brakes were made in steel which would be ideal. Do you have a source of these steel brakes? This is the route that I am currently trying to go down but I cant find a steel molot brake!
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I had my s12 barrel chopped to 24" too, the barrels are heavy
If anyone in the UK is after some 8rd factory rock and lock mags I have 4 up for grabs
Did you remove the barrel first?. As you were not reducing the barrel below the legal 24" minimum, I guess you could do it yourself. Only reducing below the legal limit seems to require an RFD.see above.
I have the Magwell version so cant use the R&L.
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Thanks for the reply. I plan to take the Vepr to a Gunsmith and have the barrel took down to 24" and then threaded for a Saiga Muzzle brake after. Hopefully it will make it better performing. On a side note, is it possible to shorten it further and have a fixed muzzle brake still meeting the 24" law in the UK. I have read the Firearms Act and it is a little vague.
You may have problems getting an RFD to cut down the barrel unless you first remove it from the receiver. This is not desperately straightforward. I am in the same predicament as you regarding chopping the barrel and affixing a Brake. This was a reply I had on a diff. forum. I think it would be allowed, but removing the barrel (and replacing it) to get the work done could make it more trouble than its worth. If you manage to find some one prepared to do the work with the barrel still attached let me know.
Since it is illegal under the firearms acts to shorten a shotgun barrel or rifle barrel to below the legal minimum unless you are a dealer and are doing it for the purpose of cutting back to decent metal to extend it again (as you would when re-barrelling a side by side) - please see the guidance notes:
2.32 However, section 7(3) of the 1988 Act
exempts from the provisions of section 7(2)
any firearm where the barrel has been
shortened by a registered firearms dealer for
the sole purpose of replacing part of it so as
to produce a barrel not less than 24 inches
in length.
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Hi
I intend to order a Vepr 12 from Rusmilitary for UK PSG and wanted to hear from anyone in the UK has one and their personal experiances with them.
Thanks
Steve
Barrel length is an issue. They are coming in at nearly 27" which is really too long for psg in my opinion.If you want to add a decent brake this will add another 3-5".. I have however seen a few on the circuit so maybe an actual owner will chip in. I shoot a 24" S12 which as you know is the UK minimum barrel length for this type of firearm, and this is really beyond what is practical. The top guys at the World shoot were using considerably shorter guns to very good effect.
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Thats what I was talking about when I said not cool. Sorry I was'nt clear. I am glad this topic came up and we have some Russian friends to give us some usefull info on this stuff.Seeing pieces of a break missing isn't cool.
And not safety for shooter and people around
This does not happen if someone use Original GK-01 made by Molot!!!
And I reapet again, If someone are going to buy Vsevolod Ilyn design muzzle brake, called GK-01, do not wont any problems with GK-01 in the future - buy ONLY ORIGINAL GK-01 made BY MOLOT (Molot is a plant located in Russia, not in China or USA), beware of Danger copies!
So how can we buy the Molot Version? Having seen them in action at the World shoot in Hungary I am totally sold. I am based in the UK , So attempting to order anything from a US based supplier is a bust. Is there a RU site that I can order from. Have looked at the Molot site but cannot find parts. Also dont read RU !!
You can buy Ilyne's Muzzle Brake made by Molot, called GK-01, in shooter-shop.ru they have a person in US whom you can contact +1 (347) 257-97-82, E-mail:orders@shooters-shop.ru, Skype: THESOI.
Here is topics: What muzzle brake is this?? (PIC)
PS Maybe you ask your local Molot dealer to import a couple of dozen for Vepr-12 users.
Thanks.
Oleg from Rusmilitary is now starting to bring in the Vepr12, to the UK, but due to our gun laws the barrel is 68cm/27" which is really too long. We are allowed 24" barrels, but so far as I know,no one is prepared to shorten the barrel.
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Thats what I was talking about when I said not cool. Sorry I was'nt clear. I am glad this topic came up and we have some Russian friends to give us some usefull info on this stuff.Seeing pieces of a break missing isn't cool.
And not safety for shooter and people around
This does not happen if someone use Original GK-01 made by Molot!!!
And I reapet again, If someone are going to buy Vsevolod Ilyn design muzzle brake, called GK-01, do not wont any problems with GK-01 in the future - buy ONLY ORIGINAL GK-01 made BY MOLOT (Molot is a plant located in Russia, not in China or USA), beware of Danger copies!
So how can we buy the Molot Version? Having seen them in action at the World shoot in Hungary I am totally sold. I am based in the UK , So attempting to order anything from a US based supplier is a bust. Is there a RU site that I can order from. Have looked at the Molot site but cannot find parts. Also dont read RU !!
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More fun with follower but it works.
12rds total, IPSC ready.
Cant see the point in a 12 round for IPSC when you are only allowed to load 10 into it. You might just as well use the +2 extension and have a true 10 rounder which is a lot less unwieldy. Also cannot get caught out and DQ'ed when you accidentally load 11 into your 12 rounder .
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My 24 " has three ports.Its a factory magwell version ,so dont know if that makes a difference.
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I will send you an email using your website address.
Off topic-Like the look of your carbon/ti ceations.
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Not sure. I thought ITAR was Global in that if we can get them here then you guys must surely get them there and I would have thought that would apply to the VEPR too.
Having said that - your State Department is so strange when it comes to import and export!
So are you currently suppling Veprs ? You dont mention them on the website.I would be in the market.Are you cutting the long barrelled version down to the UK minimum 24",which is what all UK practical shooters would want?
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Beautiful, yes, but the Brits face a different problem... they have to use much longer barrelled shotguns. I'll take our current US gun laws over UK gun laws any day of the week. Those videos of "straight-pull", (completely neutered), "AK's" are painful to watch.
Just noticed that on both guns. Those barrels are a bit long.
Minimum barrel length allowed here in the UK is 24".
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too bad its not in the U.K. I might have taken you up on the offer as I'll likely be in the area visiting my family!
Oh well.. Woulda loved beating down some frenchies and drinking some german/english beer (or just watching a drinking beer, better at that probably)... not that I'm not doing that now.. but still
by the way how dificult is it to bring a gun from america to the U.K. or europe in general from the states? pretty strange gun laws there.
edit:
Wow there are no U.K. matches scheduled on that website.. makes me sad
The level 3 matches in UK are;
May 21/22 Harlow
June 11/12/13 Shield
July 3/4 Carlisle
Sept 4/5 Borders
Oct 8/9 Harlow
These are provisional dates but do not tend to alter.
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Yes, talking about the factory mags to be used with the factory magwell.
Dont know what the best expectations are for them.
Just hate to be whittleing away at more metal or plastic before I know what to best expect.
Thanks.
Hi Red Cedar.Seems a bit pointless to have the magwell without the advantage of dropfree mags.All factory magwell s12 come with at least one factory fitted magazine which is individually numbered.If you purchase extra mags they will all need to be fitted to each individual gun.I have 10 8 round factory mags.One came with the gun and slides in with a snick and drops free as the mag release is activated.All of the extra 9 mags that I bought had to be fitted to the gun.A small amount of plastic needs removing at the back and the rest of the fitting involves removing small amounts of metal from the lip feeds until the mag drops away when released.The 1st mag took about an hour as I was being very careful.By the end I could do one in 5 mins. I found painting the magazine feed lips with tippex and then inserting into the gun showed the tight spots easily .A small touch with the Dremel,retouch with tippex etc until done.Hve been in use in competition over in the UK for over a year and are still good as new.If you want some pics let me know and I will take some.
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Update.
As mentioned above I have fitted one to my S12. Apart from a little removal of excess material at the end of the buffer (30 sec dremel job to clear the rearward rivet), fitting was a simple job of tightening two screws.
Shooting with slug ,buck and 35g birdshot,showed a small reduction in felt recoil but not significant.Of much more significance was the tendency for the magazines to be ejected from the gun onto the ground.As the spring in the buffer is compressed and released,it imparts load to the gun throwing it forward.This dislodged the magazine on about 1 time out of ten shots.Please note my gun has a factory magwell with drop free magazines and I was using a factory 8 shot mag with a +2 extension so the weight of 10 heavy rounds was in each mag. It may well be that with the rock and lock type mag with fewer cartridges that this would not happen. I cannot recomend it to people with the factory magwell. I have now removed it from my gun and the magazines stay in place!!
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Best way is to insert a loaded mag and rack action to chamber a round.Then drop that magazine and insert a fully loaded mag into the gun.The first mag only needs a single round in it.I routinely do this in competition.With my factory 8 round mags with a plus 2 extension,I can start a COF with the gun loaded with 11 rounds.Shoot 10, drop the mag and load a new mag and continue shooting.No need even to take the gun from your shoulder.
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Has anyone tried the Collapsible Butt Stock Tube w/ Shock Absorber for AK 47 from fab defense? What do you think? Looking for an adjustable and comfortable stock.
I have bought one to try.Did require a bit of fitting as was hitting against the most rearward rivet before seating fully.Nothing 30 secs dremmelling wont fix.Not made to the highest of standards but neither is the cost.Have not shot it yet.Will be shooting slug/buck and 35g loads over this weekend so will report back.
Citadel RS-S1
in Vepr-12
Posted
As stated it is a licensed version of the Saiga 030. I have had one for for some months and found it to be very reliable. I recently shot it at the World shoot in France and experienced zero failures, despite only having a handful of rounds through it previously.