GreggD1125
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Posts posted by GreggD1125
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The last .308 ammo I bought looked like 1982 surplus S&B. I paid $10 a box for it. There's a gun show near where I live next weekend & I'm planning to go. Hopefully the guy I bought both my Saigas from will be there & has the EXACT SAME ammo for $4.50 a box. Of course, the price could've gone up since the last time I saw him.
Just my 2 cents worth.
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I was actually going to get a Saiga in 30-'06, until I saw that it didn't look at all like .223, 7.62x39, or the .308. To me, it's a bit on the hideous side. I still want an M1 Garand, but a new one is mucho dinaro. According to the CMP web site all they have right now is the Rack Grade, all other grades are sold out. One good thing, they have lots of surplus 30-'06 ammo! The ammo description is interesting: the bullets attract magnets. Hmmmm!!!!!!
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UPDATE: I got a new CDNN Catalog in the mail just now & they're showing a used 35rd Orlite Galil for $8.99. I didn't see those mags aren't listed on the CDNN web page though.
That's GREAT news! I ordered a bunch of the CDNN used Orlites a few months ago, and IF these are in the same condition as the ones I got, they're the deal of the century! My mags were all like new! I would definitely check it out (call CDNN), if I needed Saiga mags. Can you post the part number & phone number from the catalog, so the folks here can follow up on this, if they want to?
Thanks!
;>)
Your wish is my command, but I can only come through on 50% of your request.
CDNN is not showing a part number for this magazine or any others on page 66 of their new catalog (Volume 2007-1). The toll free telephone # is 800-588-9500.
Quality on the mags I got was fantastic. I almost hated to do the modifications to make them usable in my Saiga.
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You'd be better off buying a few Orlite Galil mags from CDNN for $9.99 each & getting a bullet guide from Dinzag. You will have to do a very minor modification on the mag. There are posts on the forum that tell you what to do.
Unfortunately, the CDNN Galil Orlite mags have bumped up in price to $14.99:
http://www.cdnninvestments.com/galil.html
However, that is still an excellent price for a new, unissued 35-rd mil-spec rifle magazine. The 12-rd steel Galil mags are still about $10, and I like the two I bought, even though I had to work on the left-side feed lips to get them to function correctly in my Saiga. No problem whatsoever with the Orlites (& dinzag's bullet guide)...
;>)
CURSES! The Law of Supply & Demand strikes another blow to cheap prices!
UPDATE: I got a new CDNN Catalog in the mail just now & they're showing a used 35rd Orlite Galil for $8.99. I didn't see those mags aren't listed on the CDNN web page though.
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You'd be better off buying a few Orlite Galil mags from CDNN for $9.99 each & getting a bullet guide from Dinzag. You will have to do a very minor modification on the mag. There are posts on the forum that tell you what to do.
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Well I have been looking into getting a Saiga .223. Im glad i started to read alot of gun forums because I had no idea they didnt accept Hi-cap mags at first.
I guess my question is what exactly do I need to purchase in order to make this gun accept hi-cap mags? Also what am I looking at as far as prices go? If im going to do this im looking to buy the best stuff needed in order to make it work. I dont want to do a halfa$$ job.
Also should I be able to do the work myself or would i be better off bringing to a gunsmith? thanks for helping the newbie guys. Its appreciated.
After you get your rifle, check to see what kind of trunnion it has, flat or round. Then get with dinzag for a bullet guide for the rifle. Then, get a few Orlite Galil magazines from CDNN. They're about $10 each. You'll have to modify those mags a little so they'll work in the Saiga. I did all the work myself & I'm not too talented, so you shouldn't have any trouble. BTW, there are posts on the forum about the mag modifications.
Good luck.
Hylndr
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Oops! Thanks for bringing that up Bob. I have a very severe sinus headache this morning & it's affecting the "comprende" part of my brain, or else I would've caught it as well. The heavier bullet will change the figures for ft/lbs.
Sorry for the mistake.
Taking the new bullet weight (122 gr.) into account, here's the correction:
2250 fps - 1371 ft/lbs
2350 fps - 1496 ft/lbs
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WOW! Not only do you have a noticable drop in velocity, you've got one in knockdown as well. Here's the math using the 55 grain bullet:
3250 fps - 1290 ft/lbs of knockdown
3200 fps - 1251 ft/lbs of knockdown
2823 fps - 974 ft/lbs of knockdown ( macbeau's 16" Saiga )
2350 fps - 675 ft/lbs of knockdown ( ironhead's 16" Saiga )
2250 fps - 618 ft/lbs of knockdown ( ironhead's 20" Saiga )
This drop will explain why our troops are having trouble taking out the bad guys in Iraq with their 14" M4's.
(velocity x velocity x bullet weight / 450240 = ft/lbs knockdown)
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I just did a check at CTD's web page & the only ammo they have by Brown Bear is 7.62 x 39, unless they're just not showing it. You may have to call & ask about availabilty.
I found some Hansen .223 at a pawn shop near where I work for $4.50 a box, so you might want to check the pawn shops where you live to see what they have. (Disregard my suggestion if you've already done that.)
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...I do know that the rear catch on the orlites needs to be built up just a bit to keep them from moving. I'm working on getting the needed parts so I'll be in compliance with the regs...
Actually, you don't need to "build up" the mag catch, if you don't want to. The standard conversion cookbook...
http://www.cross-conn.com/Saiga_Conversion/Step_5.htm
...suggests that you shorten the front trigger guard 'tang.' If you know you are going to be using only, or mostly, Galil Orlites (like yours truly - I bought more than I'll ever need when they were $5 each ;>), you can leave the front trigger guard tang 'long,' which allows the 'tang' to function as a 'filler' between the mag catch & the bottom of the receiver. In other words, you can make the Orlites fit 'rock solid,' by adjusting the fit - either by filing the 'tang' for thickness (which I did, & recommend ;>), or by filing the mag catch on each mag (which I also did, because I screwed up, on some of my '06' marked mags - which apparently have thicker mag catches than the 03 or 04 marked Orlites ;>).
Works great if you want to go that way. Obviously, 'YMMV, caveat emptor, offer not valid where prohibited, etc., etc.'
The best part - if you change your mind, all you have to do is remove the trigger guard (2 bolts) & shorten the 'tang,' as per the excellent Saiga 'cookbook' instructions, and you're ready to swap over to Bulgy mags, Weigers, or even Nancy-Pelosi's-custom-made-politically-correct-Saiga-mags-for-law-abiding-American-gunowners (1 round capacity? Or more likely, ZERO round capacity, with room only for a folded-up copy of the government-approved lirics to 'Kumbaya'... ;>)
(I was stuck living - if you can call it that - in Kalifornia for more years than I want to remember, so 'ask me how I know' about Comrade Speaker Pelosi... )
FWIW...
Hey Bob,
First, sorry about being so late in replying to your post. Things have been a bit hectic at my end for the last week or so.
I checked out the markings on my mags, & both have an "02" on them. For some reason, they seem to be fitting a bit tighter now, so I won't have to do any more mods to them. I did have to apply a bit of silicone grease to the inside of the body & the follower. It got difficult to load all 35 rounds before I lubed things, now they both load with no problems.
I'll not go into what I think of Madame Comrade Speaker "Lugosi" (wait, that's an insult to Bela) as I don't want to loose my lunch.
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My experience with Hansen ammo was with some 7.62 x 54. I had a problem reloading the case after about 4 times. I still have a few of my reloaded rounds with the familiar "NNY" on them, although the N's were backwards.
I'll second your thoughts on safety.
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Federal ammo, phooey! I wouldn't use that shit if my life depended on it. I had a run-in with Federal a number of years ago about some 7.62 x 39 ammo. The CS rep was an arrogant SOB. I vowed then NEVER to knowingly use any ammo/product made by Federal from that day on because of that guys attitude. I've had good luck with Winchester in the past.
I'll say right upfront that I do identify with your way of doing business. I had a run-in with a customer service rep at Bushmaster (a complete idiot - I can provide details upon request) a few years ago, which is one reason (the other being superior product ;>) why I do all of my AR business with ArmaLite.
(By the way, ArmaLite is 'Ichiban - Number One!' ;>)
On the other hand, I won't insult anyone who does business with Bushmaster - apparently they market an acceptable product, if you can believe the majority of posts on-line.
As far as ammo goes, I think (and it's just my personal opinion ;>) that you're asking for problems, if you don't use standard "mil-spec" ammo in a 'civilian legal' rifle which has a design based on any military self-loading/automatic rifle. Case in point: even the legendary US M-1 rifle will not function properly, if the bullet weight and/or chamber pressure rise beyond mil-spec. If you use foreign ammo, you have to either check foreign rifle /ammo specs (which may be different than the rifle/ammo combination you are supposed to be using - consider the Japanese 7.62 ammo), or just assume ('guess-timate') that the foreign ammo was actually produced & stored as specified, or assume ('guess-timate') that the foreign ammo will work in a firearm for which it was not designed. (FWIW, that's one reason I like the FAL - you can spell it 'ADJUSTABLE GAS SYSTEM!' With any AK-type firearm, you're just trusting that the mechanism will handle any pressure you send it's way - for round, after round, after round. With the FAL - just test-fire the ammo, & adjust the gas system... ;>)
Federal manufactures ammunition for the civilian, law enforcement, and certain limited (read 'one-shot-one-kill') military markets. As with any product, if you use it anywhere it was not designed to be used, you are in unexplored territory. A word to the wise: stick to military surplus ammo for your Saiga - and if the ammo is not Russian .223 (and maybe even if it is), be honest enough to recognize that your ammo may not be compatible with your firearm.
When I had 'dog-leg' case separations with Chicom .223 in my Mini-14, I didn't blame the Chicoms - God only knows how or why they designed the ammo, or what rifle they had in mind when they marketed it. For all I know, they were trying to kill or injure 'capitalist pigs' like me, by sending defective ammo to the States. I just changed ammo. No problemo.
In my FAL, I use NATO-spec 7.62 ammo (from multiple countires). No problemo. (And by the way, Federal match ammo fuctions just fine, too... ;>)
In my AR and .223 Saiga, I generally use NATO-spec 5.56 ammo. So far, no problemo. And 'no problemo' with Winchester 'white box' Q3131 - which (if I remember correctly) is pretty close to NATO-spec.
I'm not trying to give anyone a hard time. I've got a .223 bolt gun. If you've got ammo that's 'sub-par' in your Saiga, let me know - I might be willing to swap for some (so I can try it in my Savage 10FP), especially if we can meet in person & avoid shipping costs (which absolutely suck for ammo - once again, ask me how I know ;>). If that won't work, talk to your friends or local gun shop owners, and see what you can work out. (Or buy a Savage Model 10FP - I get one-hole groups with Federal 50 grain 'plain wrap' HPs. How neat is that? ;>)
Bottom line - stick to mil-spec ammo for your Saiga - it's a military design, not a varmint rifle, so use mil-spec ammo. (And even then, what you bought might not function right, based on what has been posted here by others. A word to the wise - with any firearm, buy a little & function fire it, before you buy a lot. Again, ask me how I know... ;>)
No need for details, Bob, even though idiots come in varying degrees. My comments about Federal were strictly me venting on a sore subject. Most Saigas chambered for .223 Rem. only show the one caliber designation. Not like the ".308 Win/7.62x51" you find on its big brother.
BTW, I ran across a brand of ammo yesterday I haven't seen in years, Hansen. I bought 8 boxes @ $4.50/box. I think it's made in Yugoslavia.
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Federal ammo, phooey! I wouldn't use that shit if my life depended on it. I had a run-in with Federal a number of years ago about some 7.62 x 39 ammo. The CS rep was an arrogant SOB. I vowed then NEVER to knowingly use any ammo/product made by Federal from that day on because of that guys attitude. I've had good luck with Winchester in the past.
It's a good thing there wasn't a misfire because you could've been hurt.
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Glad you mentioned that Dinzag. I was wondering if you were going to have to do any mods on the steel ones you had. I do know that the rear catch on the orlites needs to be built up just a bit to keep them from moving. I'm working on getting the needed parts so I'll be in compliance with the regs. BTW, where are the orlite mags made?? I didn't see anything on mine to indicate this.
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I got 2 from CDNN recently & did the modification this past weekend. I had to use a file since I don't have a dremel tool.
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My next rifle will be an M1 Garand. According to the CMP web site, the different grades of rifles have different amounts of throat & muzzle erosion:
Service Grade - $550 (Good to Very Good condition) (Sold out BTW)
Muzzle - less than 3
Throat - less than 5
Field Grade - $425 (Fair to Good condition)
Muzzle - greater than 3
Throat - less than 5
Rack Grade - $395 (Poor to Fair condition)
Muzzle - greater than 3
Throat - 5 or greater
Nothing was mentioned about headspacing.
For what it's worth, I saw a few M1's at the Dalton Ga gun show last November that looked to be Rack Grade & the seller wanted $800 to $900 each. (I'll save a little more money up & go over to CMP in Anniston Alabama in a month or so to get a rifle & ammo. All my paperwork is on file already.)
If I have to do any work on the rifle, all I have to say is Thank God for AGI & their instructional DVDs.
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That thing hurts just looking at it!
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Do any of the forum members who live in or around Kissimmee Fl know of a gun shop in the area that has .308 & .233 ammo (non reloadable preferred) at a reasonable price? I'll be in Kissimmee over the Christmas holiday & wanted to stock up if possible. I need to know before I leave Friday as I will not have access to the internet during my trip. Thanks in advance.
Merry Christmas to one & all,
Hylndr
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I just started gathering reloading tools too and have found the above to be all too true,Sure you can buy a special tool to remove primers in 4x the time it takes for boxer primers but then you have to pay exxtra for the primers which negates the cost of brass then hopefully your primer install tool will fit berdan primer size.
I'm hoping this primer removed mil spec brass will work
http://www.patsreloading.com/patsrel/whatsnew.htm
and hoping the thicker brass will last more reloads
If this is military brass, you'll need to ream out the primer crimp, if it hasn been removed already, or you'll ruin every primer you try to press in. I found this out the hard way many years ago when I got some PMC 7.62x39 FMJ.
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Looks like I was a bit slow on the draw. I was about to post a topic on this very ammo at AIM Surplus. J&G Sales has some surplus .308 from India, but I don't know anything about it. I think I read on the forum someplace to stay away from any ammo that comes from India. Could someone please confirm or deny that.
I'm having trouble finding .308 ammo that is reasonably priced. When I bought my .308 back in October, I also bought some S&B ammo for $4.50 per box. A local gun shop has that same ammo for $10.
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yes they can work with metal work of course. they have to be cut like an m14 mag. and some welding in the front for a lip and some relocation and wlding in the back.. i got some and was going to do it but i bought fuzzy bunny mags.. they are onthe way?.. any way i thinki still have 2 galil 12 round mags fairly cheap if your interested.. i think i paid $25 for the 2. if you want them, or if anyone wants them.
o i forgot 1 thing you will need to router out the mag well in the front , its no big deal it does not effect using regular saiga mags. its just on the receiver. i did mine and actually regular 8 rounders fit better for fast reloads....
The Gaili mags were just a thought. I'll wait til the 20 rounders are ready, which according the PvtPyle, will be probably in January.
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Yes...You will need a bullet guide to use Galil Orlites.
Just wanted to make sure. Thanks.
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You can reuse your trigger guard if you remove it carefully. Even if you have to cut the hole it's not hard. Just have to measure, mark, drill four small holes, and connect them with a cutoff wheel on your dremel.
Check out my AKS-12 conversion tutorial. There is a template there showing exactly where to cut it.
I wasn't sure if the original could be reused because of the compliance issue. I'm guessing the guard needs to be trimmed so the pistol grip will fit properly.
I checked both rifles for the square cut holes, & I'm in luck. Because of the oddball trigger on the .308, there is a channel cut through the hole as well as the bottom of the receiver to allow the trigger to move. The trigger plate covers it up. The one on the .223 shouldn't pose a problem because it's intact.
Will I need the bullet guide if I want to use a Galil Orlite mag? My trunnion is the flat cut type.
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They make it look a lot harder than it is, the only hard thing is to cut the square hole for the pistol grip nut, and you may already have the square hole,
remove the dust cover and look at the trigger pivit pin, Look just ahead of the trigger slot about 1/8 of an inch you should see a square hole in the bottom of the recieve it will only be visible from inside and you'll only be able to see a corner or two. If it's there your half way done already. I'm sure your 308 will have one.
we can walk you through the process, if you want.
Thanks. I guess it's just the fear of the unknown that's making me hesitate.
I ordered 3 DVD courses on the AK from AGI last week. Once I get a chance to watch how things are done, maybe I won't be so nervous about the installation.
I had never seen the inside of a rifle before I did my conversion.Topmaul is right, the hardest part is the PG nut hole and you may already have one there.
It is so much easier than it looks.
I'll check the Saigas tonight for the square hole. BTW, do I need another trigger housing? If so, where can I get one??
So many questions, so little experience.
The Krauts are coming
in Saiga 7.62 X 39
Posted · Edited by Hylndr
Yeah, and maybe I might find myself in a dirty little 3-way with Pelosi & Mrs. Clinton.......they would be soooo hot togther!
YUCK!!!!! What a revolting thought!! It's enought to kill your appitite for a month!!!!!!