usfan
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Posts posted by usfan
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I'll post both the vepr 12 & the 308...
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It's what you get when non gun people make reviews.. obviously clueless..
'unusually powerful' ?? really? More than any firearm in history, i bet..
BTW, what caliber is this 'unusually powerful gun?''today's most demanding tactical shooter'
How about it, guys? How demanding are you? Or are you a REAL 'tactical shooter?' 
'the ARX100 is reasonably priced at $1,950, which does not include bullets'
What??!? No bullets??!! What's the point, then, of buying this stupid gun if it doesn't even come with bullets! 
NO mention of calibers, barrel length, weight, or normal specs that gun people look for.. just a 'powerful, futuristic gun!!' Man, if i were a liberal, i'd run out & buy one of them suckers, just to show ol' bubba i can be higher tech than he is!
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Alright. It's about time i put up some eye candy. ..especially since siagas & veprs are being banned, the fury might have to do as a tactical mag shotgun. I'll put up some pics of the fury alone, & some side by side with the vepr, for comparison.
..with the 10 round factory mag.. evidently these are as rare as hen's teeth, now. The 2- 5 round mags came with it.
Compared to the vepr 12:
Both have a magwell & bolt hold open..
Inside the receivers.
The rods, bolts & springs.. the veprs are on top.
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I bought mine last year, but if i hadn't, no way would i get into bidding wars with a bunch of hysterical people living in fear. I'd just wait it out.. it sucks for the vendors, & the aftermarket sellers, but they will have to diversify to keep margins up. I haven't bought 22 LR for the same reason. I just don't shoot it much, anymore. I still have a few bricks to fall back on.
A local gun shop tried to sell me some unique powder for double the msrp a cpl yrs back.. No way. I won't support gouging. Sometimes there is irrational hysteria in the world, & reasonable people just have to wait it out.
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I'll sell mine if the price is right. Now the vepr12 is at its forever home, the 308 has a domestic equivalent in the ar10 theres no real us made shotgun that comes close to a saiga12 or vepr12.
I'm very happy with my v12 & v308.. no way will i sell them.
I have never sold a gun in my life, and do not plan to start now!
I've only sold a couple, & ALWAYS regretted it later. I've traded a few, as well, & generally miss the ones traded. Better to collect & keep everything!
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Hmm.. in the last couple of weeks, i've gotten:
1. canik s-120 9mm pistol
2. hogue pistol grip, sgm forend, gl shock stock & law tactical folder for v-308
3. new mags for 308
4. mechtech carbine upper for glock 19.
5. stock adapter & scope mount for v308
6. grips, holster for canik
7. 4227 powder on the way, with a few more primers.
There's probably more.. but too much already. Time to ride things out & not buy anymore for a while. But... my reloader needs a part, I need a 45colt lever, an ak in 7.62x39, & a bigger gun safe.
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Yes, if he didn't, he missed the window. Might have to go to a fury to get a cheap mag shottie!
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I'll try to get some pics up from the fury's bolt.. the problem is, the last time it deformed the bolt a bit, i smoothed everything up, filed away the deformation, & made it cycle a lot better. So, until i shoot it a bunch more, it won't show anything on the pics..
But! I do have some pics of the finished vepr 12, & just in time for the import ban!
On it are hogue pistol & foregrip, & the factory folding stock, & css brake. The rest is factory.
I'll probably end up trading off the fury.. but i'm in no hurry, & it does work pretty good since i fluffed & buffed it. I suppose with the russian ban, the furys will end up selling better.. the prices will shoot up on the veprs & saigas, & make the chinese guns look better.
As it is, i'm pretty happy with the vepr, & even bought a 308 to go along with it.
That was stock, but with a few choice additions, it now looks like this:
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where did ya get the FURY 10 round magazines, I am having trouble locating a retailer.
I bought it at j&g sales in prescott, when i bought the fury. Evidently, no one has them anymore. As long as they sell the furys, i would think they'd ship more in, or at least an aftermarket vendor would make some up. The factory ones look good.. just like a factory vepr. ..but they are not interchangeable. Too bad they didn't just make it saiga or vepr compatible in the first place.
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ok, not 'eyeing' it anymore... it's coming to an ffl near me. I got it from buds, for $335 shipped. Chrome, s-120, all steel, full sized, 2 17 rnd mags. I'll give a mini review when i shoot it.
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I've been eyeing the s-120 in chrome.. anyone have one of those? I guess it is a cz 75b clone, but a good pistol, from the reviews i've read.
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..not much more to say.. i don't shoot the fury as much.. the vepr is much smoother, less recoil, hits clay better, & handles the low power loads better. No more than i shoot either of them, i will not wear them out. But even though the vepr was twice as much, i think it is twice the firearm. The fury's bolt has a little deforming from impact, while the vepr is still hard & straight.. hmm... no jokes on that..
I put a hogue tactile forend & grip on the vepr, modified slightly from an ak package. The fury is still bone stock, & likely will stay that way, since few mods (if any) are even out there. But it certainly is fine the way it is.
But the vepr with the hogue furniture, the factory folder, a css brake, & just a bit of fluff & buff is a fine shotgun. I'll still shoot the o/u just to compare, but at my skill level, the vepr is just as good, & more fun with at least 5 shots. I have a cheap spring thrower, & use it at the NF range, so i can load up the mag if i want.
I doubt i shoot the fury much, & if i get a chance to trade it, i probably will. it is certainly ok, especially for the price, but it's like anything. Why keep a cheap revolver if you have a nice smith or dan wesson?
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I like it! I'll take one when they come out..
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i got one a few years back, then got a carbine type 53 last year. It's tough to beat for a high powered rifle cartridge on the cheap. There are tons of mods, upgrades, & modernizations you can do, too.. but i kind of like the classic look. I've got a hex mosin, too, a 1929 model with all matching ser. #s. It's still a good shooter, but kicks like a mule.
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I bought a rem 870 for $35 when I was 16, too.
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Why do people buy RIA 1911s instead of colts? Toyotas instead of BMWs? Saigas instead of veprs? Mossberg instead of benelli? Browning vs Hi point?
This is a philosophical question I cannot answer.
If all I wanted was a cheap autoloader with mags, the fury fits the bill. Others can bash it if they want, but I think it would work for a lot of people.
I'm an aficionado, not an elitist. I've got cheap guns, & expensive ones. I like a well made weapon, & elegance, but I also like cheap & functional.. Isn't that what AK pattern firearms are about?
BTW, I haven't spent any extra money on the fury. After a bit of fluff & buff, it is quite functional.
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Not a very good comparison IMHO. The VEPR is way ahead of the Saiga much less the Fury! So when you spend the time and money getting it up to the standards of a Saiga S12 are you really saving that much? And what about re-sale value? Will you get a better return if you spend the extra money up front and just buy a S12?
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this was just my thoughts on these particular firearms, after putting minimal rounds through them. I made no claim about reliability, or longevity for either, nor was resale value a factor, as i have no idea about that.. i would assume you could not resell them for more than they go for new, & i would also assume you could resell them for nearly what they cost, since that seems to be the case for most firearms in the current market.
All i have read is high praise for the vepr, & demonizing of the fury... this is a less emotional review, based on actually handling & shooting the weapons in question. I can't say the fury is a horrible weapon, & not worth $400. IMO, it is worth the price. You'd have a functional, semi auto shottie with a magazine. I also think the vepr is worth the price. it is much better made, & has extras right out of the box. I will keep the vepr for sure, & the fury for a while.
Anyway, i'm not attacking anyone's sacred cows, or trying to sell anything or convince anyone of a particular viewpoint. This is just one person's opinions about these 2 firearms.. take them with a grain of salt.
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I don't have any pics on this.. maybe later.
I ordered a vepr 12 from classic on black friday, but the invoice fell behind the sofa & they had to make a new one, after i had waited a few weeks. In the mean time, j&g sales had a sale on the catamount fury 2, & since i was in the area, i dropped in to look at it. It looked pretty solid.. the action worked fine.. a bit stiff, but it seemed ok, so i bought it.. $400 vs over $1k for the vepr seemed like it was worth taking a chance. So i got to shoot the fury for a cpl weeks while waiting on the vepr to come in. I smoothed up the action, & filed the impact areas on the bolt & bolt carrier. It still doesn't cycle the 1oz cheap target loads, but everything else is fine. When the vepr came in, i put on a hogue forend i had, & the css gk brake. It also didn't cycle the light loads, but i didn't get these guns to shoot fluff loads, anyway. I wasn't happy how the hogue forend fit, so put the factory back on, leaving on the pistol grip.
I took both of them shooting right after xmas, & tried different loads. The vepr cycled a little better, but the bolt carrier was much smoother out of the box. I had already polished up the fury, so it was a bit smoother, but the bolt head was stiff in the bolt, so that was something else that i would look at. I worked a lot more on the fury, polishing up the mating surfaces, but still the bolt will not close by itself, if you slowly release it, whereas the vepr will. I used moly lube on the mating surfaces & polished up every contacting surface.
Yesterday, i took them out again. I shot several different loads, ranging from the cheap target loads to rio 00 buck, to 3" magnum #4. Anything above the target loads cycled fine in both guns. Here are the pros & cons of each. I have 6 other shotguns, but was looking for a tactical shotgun with a large capacity magazine. I briefly considered the keltec ksg, but the jury is still out on them, they cost a lot, & are hard to find.
Both fired everything, sights seemed a bit low for both, & both cycled the hotter loads faster than i could shoot.
Pros:
vepr 12:
1. solidly built. Hardened steel parts, tight machining.
2. no adjustment for light loads, shoots everything
3. chrome bbl
4. easy to add gk01 brake, much reduced recoil
5. excellent molot folding stock
6. came with 2-5 round mags, added 12 rnd sgm
7. single point sling swivel on stock
8. easily customizable with aftermarket mods.
fury 2:
1. cheap.. almost 1/3 of vepr.
2. cycles everything but light loads, can be smoothed up with minimal effort & cost.
3. decent skeletonized stock & forend
4. includes 3 screw in chokes.. full, mod, cyl.
5. came with 2-5rnd mags, bought addl 10 rnd factory.
6. No after market parts available.. odd sized bolt carrier, forend, & stock.. not ak compatible
Cons:
vepr12:
1. Pricey. Most expensive shotgun for me, ever.
2. heavy.
3. no chokes.
4. proprietary mags, can't interchange with other platforms.
5. hard plastic grip & forend
fury 2:
1. rough machining & sticky bolt
2. steel bbl, 'lead shot only' stamped on receiver
3. add ons or mods will require gunsmithing
4. soft steel in bolt & carrier, impact areas dent & deform easily
5. heavy, but a bit lighter than vepr
6. no single point sling attachment.. narrow sling points at forend & buttstock
7. proprietary mags, can't interchange with other platforms.
8. have to change settings from light to heavy loads.
I already had the vepr ordered when i saw the fury on sale, or i might have not bought the vepr. I also figured i could sell one, if i liked the other a lot better. But this is almost a toss up, considering all the factors. I'm glad i got the vepr, because it is a better made, better machined firearm that i can pass down for generations. But the fury will probably function fine, too, & as long as parts are available for both, that should not be a problem, either. If i keep the fury, i'll probably change out the stock for an ar type, or a folder, or both.
I originally planned to get a good recoil pad & a front rail grip, to handle the harder recoil. I shoot 3.5" magnums in my waterfowl gun, & it kicks a lot! I did not want that much kick in a tactical shottie. But the molot clone brake, & the cycling action reduces the recoil to a manageable level, so i am not putting on a railed forend for a front grip, nor an additional recoil pad. I also considered a holo sight, or red dot, but am satisfied with the stock sights. If i use it for slugs much, i might try a quick remove holo on it. But i have centerfire rifles for that purpose. I'll try out slugs, & see how they shoot, but i don't plan on shooting them regularly in it.
I had low expectations for the fury, & high ones for the vepr, after reading all the reviews & orgasmic descriptions. But reality is often less emotional & more boring. Either of these would work as a good tactical shotgun. There are pros & cons to both, & you get what you pay for. But neither is an 'out of the park' homerun, & both are good values. I'll probably keep both.
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In the old days hunting in brush country I used a 44 Ruger carbine and one of their 44 SAs for a backup. As I moved to different areas of the country and needed a longer range rifle I switched to different hand guns with the last one used being a .357 Ruger SA.
A small caliber hand gun would be fine if all you have to use it for is a coup de grace. I always viewed the handgun as a backup for failure of the rifle to work and wanted something I could bring the game down with if I was well with in range (very close). I’ve only shot 2 deer with a pistol first one after I hit it with a car and the other one walked into the hunting camp while I was getting a beer. Made me wonder why I’d spent all morning out in the woods.
One of the things to me to think about is how / where you’re going to carry the pistol. 1st of course what’s legal. Some places it’s not an option period and some specify minimum caliber. In some cases it has to be out in the open so you’re not carrying a concealed weapon.
The biggest problem I had was if I had the holster on the strong side it and the rifle banged into each other more than I wanted. I tried a shoulder holster, that didn’t work well for me so I went to a weak hand holster.
Good points. I have the same issue when hunting, since i like a rifle with a sling (or shotgun). A pistol in a strong side holster tends to bang around. I can sling the rifle over the left shoulder, but like to trade off when doing a lot of hiking. A big pistol in a shoulder holster isn't much of an improvement. I have also tried a bandolier sling, carried in the front, & it's a bit better, as you can move it easier. But in some ways, a smaller, cc weapon is a better solution. I'd rather have my lcr in a pocket than a big 44.
Mostly, it would depend on the situation. I'f i'm quail hunting here in az, i don't worry about wolves or grizzlies.. vicious chipmunks & frightened coyotes are the biggest danger. A 22 pistol is fine. I suppose if i was hunting in alaska or africa, a big caliber revolver would be a good addition, but nothing i hunt here in n. america warrants it, imo.
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usfan, no "memory" issues with the Lion batts keeping them charged??
No. They're not like nicads.. which like to run all the way down before recharging. LI-ONs like to be full. it's better to NOT run them down a lot, & especially leave them in an uncharged state. Do a search on lions, they're all the same.. cameras, cell phones, etc.
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I shoot trap a few times a year.. mostly with my O/U, but if i'm 'training' for duck season, i'll use my waterfowl gun. I'm planning on taking my vepr to the range near prescott to try it out. I won't even bother with a mag.. the 5 stand range for trap only lets you have one in the gun at a time. I'm a little worried about the auto ejecting empties at the next station.. i'll have to see how it does & the angle & force of the ejection.
Don't expect to compete with the old guys with those 30" over unders, though.. some of those old guys are very good, & do it all the time. I average the upper teens, & occasionally break 20, but some of these guys are disappointed if they don't get 100s.
I generally use the cheap target loads.. walmart specials, but try to get 1 1/8 oz loads.. i think those will cycle better in an auto. I picked up some herter's shells at cabela's yesterday, when i took my son to the airport in phx. They seem to have a bit more punch than the white box walmart specials, & were on sale for $60/case..
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I've had cordless tools every since they first came out.. i had the ubiquitous makita 9.6v drill that really started it..actually, i still have it, though the batteries are shot, now. I'm a home builder, & have been in the construction trades all my life. I won't even touch a plain handled screwdriver anymore.. unless it has a motor, i back away holding a cross up to run it off.
It's pretty hard to beat the ryobi line.. especially the new lithium batteries.. they have so much better capacity than the old nicads. And with all the different tools, & the batteries are interchangeable, they are very useful. I have 4v, 12v, & 18v... i've got a small B&D 7.2v set that is compact. I use it in a lot of day to day fixit calls. But the 18v LION are the best.. the most power & the longest life. Good value, too. I probably have 5 18v ryobi drills, some came with a bigger set, or i bought them with some batteries for less then just the batteries. And then you have a recip saw, a small circular saw, a chain saw, hedge trimmer, vacuum, radio, impact drill, back scratcher & sky hook.. all using the same batteries.
the trick with li-on batteries is to keep them fully charged.. after every use, i slap them on the charger. Don't leave them there,, they'll cook. The lions will hold their charge for a long time, not slowly drain like the nicads. But if you leave them for long in a discharged state, they get depressed & quit holding a charge. But some simple battery maintenance will make them last a long time. I've got some that are over 5 yrs old, & still keep a charge.
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I had a shotgun that was very rusted in the chamber.. even when i used a dowell with some superfine sandpaper, it was not enough. I finally got one of those brake cylinder hones.. the one with 3 stones on an expanding bit... & put my drill on very slow, with some wd40 as lube.. that smoothed it up very nicely, & it hasn't gotten a stuck shell since.
I've had a couple of guns have jams.. sometimes, it is just a little dirt or rust in the chamber. I had an ithaca featherlight that did that, & took a wire bore brush & put it on a cordless drill & spun it with some wd40. .. then polished it with some fine grit wet or dry sandpaper, & it has worked flawlessly since. Yours might have other issues, but sometimes a sticky chamber is just some dirt or corrosion in the chamber that needs a bit more work to get out.
Looks good Uncle Jake, good luck with it, and happy Birthday brother. Have you shot it yet? What type of ammo? How's she run?
I took mine out today and the second round, (I think Brown Bear, with lacquer coating), fired and jammed in the chamber. I couldn't get it out while in the field, so when I got home I soaked it with Kroil and gave it about 15 min., I still had to use a small hammer to whack the cleaning rod to force the bullet casing out
I'll take it out after Christmas and run some non-coated rounds through it, wish me luck.
That's why I love tis place, someone to point out the obvious...thank you. I'll use the brush with some jewelers compound before I take it out again
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Wrong. Look up the list of his weapons. Around 130 total I believe. Maybe more.
All fairly well based on the one design if memory serves.
I respect MK's accomplishments under what could only be described as a difficult political situation.
He is rightfully famous for the AK, it is a hell of a weapon.
But no one compares to John Moses Browning's life's work and accomplishments.
Minds like that do not roll around very often.
I have to agree.. but we're recognizing mikhail, here. He's the one that just died, so we're talking about his influence & life work. On the anniversary of john browning's death, or birth, or the date he invented some famous weapon, we can lift our glasses & toast him. I'm sure he doesn't mind mikhail getting some props.. this isn't a discussion on who is the best firearm inventor..
So who's holding onto their 308s forever now?
in Saiga .308
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That's right.. none of us here own any guns.. we just like to talk about them, & pretend we do.. We are all terrified of real guns, & want our govt to protect us from the crazies who actually own them..