sudaevpps43
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Posts posted by sudaevpps43
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Wouldn't this be akin to the system on the Vepr 12?
I've yet to see a Vepr-12's gas system in detail.
Anyone care to share?
Well no one in the U.S. has seen a Vepr-12 of course since they can't be imported here, but the rumour is that the Vepr-12 uses a self regulating gas system which doesn't utilize a spring-loaded valve. Instead the Vepr-12 is supposed to use some sort of multi-shaped gas piston, that works off of just gas pressure, to maintain a roughly constant cycling speed of the bolt carrier irregardless of the ammunition type used. Incidentally, all the pictures I have ever seen of the latest variant of the Saiga 12 (the EXP-01-030 or KS-K) don't show an adjustable gas valve either, indicating that it also uses some sort of self-regulating gas system.
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To bad the saiga 12 was not like a real ak and could be shot for 5000 rounds and still work.
I love mine, but I wanted an ak shotgun that worked llke and ak rifle
For the heck of it one time I decided to just keep shooting my Saiga 12 without cleaning it, to find out how many rounds had to be fired throught it before it started to jam from being dirty. Over 800 rounds later it was still cycling fine and I gave up, and on this board I have heard of people who have run 2000 rounds between cleanings without having any cycling problems, so I would not be surprised if a Saiga 12 could actually go three, four, or even five thousand rounds without a cleaning and still cycle fine.
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But now that I THINK I have cleaned it, it still doesn't fall out with gravity alone.
Sorry, I should have been more detailed. You have to be extremely thorough when cleaning the gas block and puck to get it clean to the point where it will fall out from just gravity alone again, and frankly such a thorough cleaning (where you are all but polishing the carbon residue off the puck and out of the threads in the gas block) is not ever necessary with a kalashnikov pattern firearm like the Saiga 12. In fact I myself typically only do such a thorough cleaning maybe two or three times a year, on the rare days I don't have much to do and have the time to take an hour or more to see (just for the hell of it mostly) if I can clean my Saiga 12 to the point where it looks like it could have just come from the factory. But during most cleanings I just take around 15 minutes to clean out the major fouling on the gas puck, piston rod, bolt carrier, and in the gas block, gas tube, chamber, and barrel, which is plenty good enough for a Saiga 12. After one of these more typical shorter cleanings my gas puck usually won't fall out from just gravity alone either, but everything is still more than clean enough for my Saiga 12 to still be utterly reliable. In other words your Saiga 12 will still run fine, even if you don't clean your gas block and cylinder to the point where the puck will fall out from just gravity.
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Yesterday with my new gunfixer plug and KA puck I went out and ran about 250 rounds through the s12. Everything fed and ejected without a hitch. When I came back to clean the gun I found that the puck does not 'pour' out of the gas tube easily like in the tear down video....I needed to tap it out from the back. Is this normal??? All the threads seem to be clean as does the outside of the puck. OEM puck also needs to be tapped out from the back instead of just falling out when the gun is tipped down. Is this normal???
Having to tap out the puck is perfectly normal if you've run a couple hundred or more rounds through a Saiga 12. Its just the result of enough gas residue accumulating inside the gas block (and on the puck itself) that the puck can't fall out of the gas block due to gravity alone during disassembly. Whenever I run a low number of rounds through my Saiga 12 before cleaning it, during disassembly the gas puck will almost always drop out by gravity alone, but if I've shot about 200 or more rounds I always have had to tap the gas puck out. So again its perfectly normal and nothing to worry about.
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Back on topic... So, do you guys think that Arsenal has an official deal with IzhMash/Legion for these SGL rifles that they have been mass-producing (my local gun store has like 10 of them now) lately? Or do they go through a third party to get the unconverted Legion Saigas?
RAAC is supposed to have an exclusive arrangement with Izhmash, so my guess is that Arsenal gets Legion Saigas from some middleman, not from Izhmash directly.
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Dusk to dawn and Planet Terror, among others were fun to watch. Anyone that has enough imagination to put an AR-15 on an amputees stump (Cherry) gets my vote! I will definately look out for this one!
I thought Robert Rodriguez did those movies?
Rodriguez directed from Dusk Till Dawn but Tarantino wrote the screenplay for it. Planet Terror was all Rodriguez (he did both the writing and directing). Because Planet Terror and Death Proof were both in Grindhouse (the theatrical double feature release of both movies), people sometimes mix up which director did which movie. Tarantino wrote and directed Death Proof, but his only official involvement in Planet Terror was his cameo role (in the credits I think he was listed as Rapist #1).
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I find it hilarious every time the Russians complain about other countries making 'unlicensed' copies of their arms, when during the course of the cold war they shipped literally tens of millions of small arms to every corner of the world, not to mention that they also helped set up many of those same foreign factories that they are now bitching and moaning about making counterfeits. And trying to bring Mikhail Kalashnikov into it doesn't help their case one bit, since they have yet to give Kalashnikov the monetary compensation they know he's due. And their comments about other manufacturer's quality not being as good is just B.S. they spout to try to get more sales, though I don't blame them for that so much, since aside from oil, caviar, vodka, and books by suicidal novelists, the rest of the world isn't interested in buying anything else from Russia except their arms. Like the line in Lord of War goes, "One thing's for sure, no one was lining up to buy their cars.".
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I still have the factory gas plug in my Saiga 12, and the Federal and Remington birdshot I buy at my local Wallmart works great. Both cycle just fine and I never had a FTF or FTE with either. If you are looking for inexpensive reliable cycling ammo to feed your Saiga 12 on range trips, I would highly recommend either.
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Wow no one knows if this can be found anywhere?
Unless you can take a trip to Russia I think your SOL. I've never seen that buttpad for sale anywhere here in the U.S. (not even on any of the auction sites like Gunbroker). Even rusmilitary in the U.K. doesn't list it. The only place that might be able to get one is Tantal. About half-way down on his mainpage ( http://www.avtomats-in-action.com/index.html ) he says he carries Saiga 12 parts (though it doesn't list buttpads as one of the Saiga 12 parts he carries), so you could try shooting him an e-mail.
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Anyone else have any more ideas.
One source=sold out.
Russmilitary=sold out.
Gun city=sold out.
All you can do is be patient. I don't know about One Source Tacitcal since Gabe Suarez himself doesn't know if he will ever be able to get more in, but Rusmilitary and Gun City will definitely get them back in stock eventually (though it might take up to several months). If you absolutely can't wait and no russian 8 rounders show up anywhere else in the meantime (like in the for sale section here or on any auction sites), the only other possible alternative is to 'frankenmag' a couple of russian 5 rounders together. People don't do this much (if at all) any more, but it was done by some back in the old days before there were any U.S. made magazines around. If this is something you are interested in but aren't sure you can pull off yourself, check with Shannon. I know he made a few frankenmags back in those old days, and he may still offer it as a service.
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Personally, I'd like to see something like the Russian 8 rounder for a nicer price point. Metal inserts, glass filled nylon, cool looking design, etc. I'd pay $60 for that.
I would to but I'm not sure a U.S. manufacture could make an exact copy of the russian 8 rounder and keep the retail price to within $60, otherwise it seems like one of the domestic Saiga 12 mag makers (AGP, Surefire, or Promag) would have already done it by now.
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The pictured magazines are marked 76mm ( 3" )
Okay I see, so Arsenal is selling it as being for use with 3" shells only. Still, I am sure there are some who do like to shoot 2.5" shells from time to time, and since the SGL 41 doesn't have an adjustable gas system, for those who do at least want the option of being able to shoot 2.5" shells, it is just another reason why a regular .410 Saiga would be a better choice.
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for 889$ not a bad deal...
well I should have said not a bad deal but not a great deal either...
Yeah, Arsenal is still price gouging with this .410, just not as bad as they price gouge with their rifles. A person could buy a .410 Saiga, get a U.S. made trigger group, pistol grip, and buttstock for 922R compliance, and move the trigger group forward themselves for no more than about $470 to $500 total (for a bare bones conversion at least). Though in fairness I must admit if a person wanted to take a .410 Saiga and both move the trigger group forward and also give it an AK-74 front end like this SGL .410 has, then they would probably end up spending around $850 to $900 total. So in that specific scenario the pricing on this SGL .410 is actually within reason. Still, because of Arsenal's quality control reputation (which is hit or miss to say the least), even if I ever did want a converted .410 Saiga with an AK-74 front end, I would still buy a regular .410 Saiga and all the parts and do the work myself, because then at least I would know for sure what the build quality would be (but that's just my opinion of course).
One other thing about this SGL .410 that might be an issue for some people, is that it uses what appears to be an AK-74 type gas block rather than a .410 Saiga gas block, which means its gas system is not adjustable. So it would seem this SGL .410 is intended exclusively for use with higher powered (i.e 3 inch high base) .410 ammo, since there is no way to dial its gas system to a number 2 setting (like can be done with a regular .410 Saiga) for lower powered ammo.
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Odd Mill mark on an S-12...
at least one I have not seen....
The RAAC mark was lasered on the underside on the reciever in between the foregrip and the mag well....
ROSJAGD GmbH ( http://www.rosjagd.de/cataloge/saiga12.php ) is an Izhmash distributor located in Germany, so my guess is this particular Saiga 12 was probably one of a run made by Izhmash for an order from ROSJAGD, and for whatever reason it somehow instead ended up in a shipment sent to RAAC.
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Ah, another thread on GlockTalk filled with a bunch of ignorant troll posts bashing the Saiga 12, what a surprise. Well, since making ignorant troll posts over there apparently isn't a problem, maybe I'll register there and start a thread titled: "A Glock??!! Only mall ninjas and gay austrian strudel chefs carry Glocks, so which one are you?!".
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Will doesn't trust factory threading the way he does Red Jacket and Tromix .......
I don't blame you one bit on not trusting factory threading because I still remember this thread:
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What about customs? It's for personal consumption, so send them through the mail and keep it under $200 to avoid duty. No extra paperwork required.
https://help.cbp.gov/cgi-bin/customs.cfg/ph...amp;p_topview=1
If importing for commercial purposes, however, you'd need to have a 4587 on file with the ATF, plus a form 6 for each shipment.
So no more than 1 mag per order, multiple mag orders would start to add up in shipping I suppose but at the lower per mag cost it evens out in the end to just under $150.00. Gun City sounds interesting also, I would suppose the same import rules apply ?
I haven't ordered from Gun City before, but I am sure they know how to handle shipping (including dealing with customs requirements) to the U.S. just like Rusmilitary does, and if you ordered multiple mags I don't see why they would need to ship the mags individually. I would just contact Gun City and ask them how they handle shipping quantities greater than one.
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For those interested in a screw on suppressor instead of integral suppression, yesterday in that thread on the AK Forum ( http://www.theakforum.net/phpBB2/viewtopic...asc&start=0 ) Will posted this:
OK guy's , been getting flooded with reqests for this can as a screw on , seperate unit . After drawing it out , going over it all . No problem . Same performance , still use a choke [or not, your call] . It will be the same size can ,16 in's x 1.75 in's . Only for use on SBS's made by me or Tromix . No warranty if used on anyone else's SBS's S-12 . Price is $900.00 -
Yeah, another rail question by yours truly.
Thinking about the quad rail and possibly adding some sort of red dot on time, but not sure about having the red dot that far out.
Or
Go with the tri-rail configuration and use the built-in side mount to address the housing portion for the red dot mount.
Anyone try these configurations and have any feedback with pros/cons for either?
The main advantage of using the side rail is that it is a bit cheaper since it is already there on a Saiga 12, and so you only have to buy a side rail compatible red dot scope, whereas if you want to mount the red dot further forward you would need to buy both a red dot and a railed forearm to mount it on (also a tri-rail would be less expensive than a quad rail).
The main advantage of mounting a red dot forward on a railed forearm is that you do not have to take the red dot off every time you field strip the Saiga 12 (though this isn't really an issue with a side rail mounted red dot either if you are using a a quick detach mount), and if you have a side-folding stock you can fold the stock without having to take the red dot off (except of course in the case that you have a side folding stock that folds around a side rail scope so the side rail scope can be left on when folding the stock).
The only other thing, which isn't really an advantage or disadvantage between the two but just a difference, is that with a side rail mount the red dot will be closer to your eye when sighting, while with a forward mount on a railed forearm the red dot will of course be further away. Some folks prefer their red dots further away while others prefer them closer. Its just a matter of personal preference, but if you do have a preference then of course you should go with whichever option places the red dot at the desired distance from your eye.
One final thing, if you do go the side rail mount option and still want to use the iron sights at the same time, don't get a low profile side mount, but instead get a higher profile mount which has enough clearance for you to still sight through the iron sights, like this one:
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Try this link I found last night http://www.onesourcetactical.com/index.asp...amp;ProdID=1677
Gabe Suarez at One Source Tactical doesn't have any right now and he doesn't know when he will be able to get more in (see Post #8 by jamesavery22 in this thread).
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Where do i buy one?
how can i buy one?
when can i buy one?
why haven't i bought one?
You are in luck. Indiana doesn't allow short-barreled shotguns but does allow suppressors. So if you can find a local NFA dealer to handle the transfer, and you have got the money, I am sure you can order one from Will anytime you want.
http://www.redstick-firearms.com/suppresso...uppressors.html
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Always wanted one of those though that does sort of ruin the close quarters performance of the SBS...
If he made a non-integral suppressor that fit more than one brand of shotgun he would sell more. I know I would buy one, I have a few SBSs that I would like to try it with.Will already makes screw on suppressors for SBR's, so a separate screw on Saiga 12 suppressor is something he will probably be doing sometime down the road. As far as this current integrally suppressed Saiga 12 of his goes, from what he posted over on the AK Forum ( http://www.theakforum.net/phpBB2/viewtopic...asc&start=0 ) it sounded like he had two main goals in mind when making it. The first was to make a suppressed shotgun that would be as quiet as possible (which is no doubt why the suppressor section of the barrel is as long as it is), and secondly to make a suppressed shotgun that would only require one NFA tax stamp to purchase/transfer (which of course couldn't be done with an SBS and a detachable suppressor).
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Does anyone know what happened to the rifle section on the Tromix website? I was checking the site today and the link and webpage for the Saiga Shotguns section is still there, but I can't find the link or webpage for the rifles.
Thanks,
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Anton Chigurh got tired of his other suppressed shotgun and ordered this up.
http://www.redstick-firearms.com/videos/Su...dJacketS-12.AVI
Though obviously the real reason Will made it was so a shooter wouldn't have to take the cigarette out of their mouth when shooting:
http://www.redstick-firearms.com/videos/Su...cketS12vsAR.AVI
checkout this k-var sale
in Saiga-12
Posted · Edited by Frogfoot
Just to make it clearer for the newer members who may not know all the details, Arsenal USA only manufactures AK furniture (stocks, grips, forearms), some magazine components (followers and floor-plates), and a few other miscellaneous AK parts, which they distribute (as Nalioth mentioned) through their sister company K-VAR. Arsenal USA does not manufacture complete firearms, nor for that matter any receivers, barrels, bolts, bolt carriers, or any other major firearm components. All the firearms they distribute are made either by Arsenal Bulgaria (a separate company from Arsenal USA) or by Izhmash in Russia. The SGL41 is not a clone of the .410 Saiga shotgun, it is a .410 Saiga shotgun. The SGL41 starts out as a 'sporterized' variant of the .410 Saiga ('sporterized' so it can be legally imported to the U.S.) made in Russia by Izhmash, which is then somehow acquired by Arsenal USA for refit and renaming into the AK-74ish looking SGL41 for resale in the U.S. I say 'somehow' because RAAC (the official Saiga rifle & shotgun importer) is supposed to have an exclusive import arrangement with Izhmash, and so no one else in the U.S. should be able to import Saiga firearms except RAAC, but obviously Arsenal USA found a way around this.
Arsenal USA has a rather inconsistent record on quality control with regards to the fit and finish of the 'SLR' series of firearms they distribute (see this thread http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=35793 , among others), which combined with their rather high pricing has earned them the ire of many members of this board. Obviously everyone is free to buy from whomever they want, but a regular .410 Saiga can both be purchased and have a basic conversion (moving the trigger group forward and installing a pistol grip) done on it by the shooter themselves for no more than about $500. On top of this a regular .410 Saiga has an adjustable gas valve and so can handle both 2.5" and 3" shells, whereas the SGL41 is a fixed gas system variant of the .410 Saiga and can handle 3" shells only. So to me at least, unless you must have an AK-74 front end on your Saiga .410 and don't want to be able to shoot 2.5" shells, the SGL41 doesn't seem to be a particularly attractive option.