BattleRifleG3
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Posts posted by BattleRifleG3
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All good points. Here's what I have to add in addition.
There are two reasons that pistol grips came with semi and full auto guns. They have nothing to do with the pistol grip facilitating the rate of fire, as antis claim.
1.) A bolt action doesn't need to be any longer than the magazine and the trigger assembly, all of which go in front of the grip. With an autoloader, the action has to be at least twice as long as the cartridge, because the bolt has to cycle its whole length back in order to feed another round. On a bolt action, the bolt moves behind the receiver, through the position where the hand would be, but it's the same hand cycling the bolt, so it's been moved out of the way.
A pistol grip placed beneath the action of an autoloader allows the grip to be moved as far forward as the trigger group will allow. Otherwise you would be holding your front end out farther and more awkwardly, which is even worse with the added weight of a semi-auto. Certain autoloaders, particularly the M1 Garand, are so well designed that they overcome this weakness. Cruder semi-autos like the AK in Saiga form make this shortcoming more apparent.
2.) The natural position of the hand is indeed more favorable to a pistol grip. So the question is really why DIDN'T guns have pistol grips until autoloaders? Here's why - Because manually operated arms used in war did a heck of a lot more than shoot. Their design wasn't optimized for comfort - it was optimized for use as a polearm and beating implement. Notice that the first firearms were straight and took a plug bayonet right in the barrel. In time they developed more of a buttstock as we know it, styled similarly to straight gripped leverguns. With better shoting techniques and faster reloading tools, they made a socket bayonet that didn't blug the barrel. When repeater firearms came along, you started to see grips evolve, even when the bayonet was still a primary battle implement. Basically the barrels got shorter, the magazines got bigger, the rates of fire got faster, and the grips developed, all along side of each other.
It should be noted that some people call the curved grip on any firearm a pistol grip. Such a grip was found on sporting rifles over 100 years before it found its way onto military ones.
So the bottom line is that a pistol grip distinguishes a rifle that was intended to be... gasp... fired.
Now some people prefer the ergonomics of a classic stock, and there are certain shooting situations where it is preferred. A pistol grip does protrude, so when there isn't a magazine protruding farther, some people don't want too much grip sticking down. A classic shaped stock can provide a better aim on a moving target by placing the rear hand higher with respect to the center of gravity of the gun. And with regards to Saigas, the angle of trigger pull of a classic stock can be better suited to the longer trigger than a pistol grip. When people ask about P-grips for the S-308, I strongly advise a more classic or sporting style to be used with the stock trigger, and the FCG conversion if they want a pistol grip.
Bottom line is there are mechanical and ergonomic advantages of each. Different versions for different uses and different people.
Here's an article written by me that discusses some of the mechanical and ergonomic details in a manner intended to debunk AW bans.
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They will fit with necessary machining, which I can do. I have several take-off handguards for this purpose. Anyone seriously interested please message or E-mail me.
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Pittsburgh is actually only mildly blue. It's Phili that's all blue, and probably the current capital of voter fraud. Now where does our governor come from?
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Will offer $50 for the 20x buttstocks. Please advise.
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BPS is the only affordable 10ga repeater out there as far as I know, and you're lucky to get one for $400. I would pick the synthetic version myself. I was watching one on Auctionarms for under $300, but it had some sort of prominent "residue" as they called it over the gun. Perhaps in retrospect a smith refurbishment job would have fixed it. I would like to get one some day.
Yeah, I was thinking the same thing about S-10. QS-10, maybe?
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Once in a while somebody says how cool they think a Saiga-10 would be. Just because 10ga is the biggest shotgun round out there that's allowed for hunting in the US.
And of course the reality is that NO, the Russians will not make us a Saiga-10. But that's not stopping us from making one, with changes to the design that make it more feasible to make in the US.
Not that anyone really NEEDs one at all. Although there are folks who like the 10ga for hunting, and some of us would just plain want one. Most 10ga repeaters out there are autoloaders, due to the recoil reduction achieved by that system, due to weight and reciprocating mass.
My concept would be this:
Make the receiver from 1.5 x 0.12" square tube. Yes, that would be heavy. That's the point.
With this much weight, plus the weight of the larger parts for the larger round, and the 30" barrel that the 10ga deserves, It would have to have the P-grip configuration in order to keep some resemblance of a good balance. Need to move that weight as far back as possible. The buttstock would probably be shorter since the action would take up some of its space.
Only Saiga/AK parts would be the trigger group.
Since 10ga rounds have a pretty narrow variety, no gas adjustment should be necessary. Heck, it might even be able to use an AK piston and gas tube, if the longer action didn't mandate a longer piston.
2rd magazine. Let's face it - few people shoot the 10ga in any quantity. Since most 10ga use is for hunting, and almost every region limits shotguns to 2+1 capacity, a 2rd mag would only make sense. Now for the controversial part - I'd make it a fixed 2rd mag. Why? To utilize a certain mag design, that of the SKS. A lever controlled follower with a spring that you can wind up tighter or looser. Ok, so maybe a box mag the length of the cartridges would be better. Maybe. I'd consider both. A fixed mag would help it avoid DD status, considering that its weight would be pretty high and that's not a good thing in the eyes of our favorite government agency.
Perhaps a recoil absorbing buttstock design specifically for this shotgun. I don't think anyone would want to use this with a scope, so something that let the entire gun recoil back a bit may be in order. But if the buttstock's too loose, no one would be able to shoulder it firmly, and the p-grip hand would receive too much of the recoil.
A site rib - long and high. I think some Saiga rifles have them, with a truss-type support. This would keep barrel heat far away from the line of sight, not that you'd shoot a 10ga enough to generate that much heat.
Price tag? Come on, guys, you know it wouldn't be cheap. You'd be lucky to get it for $1000. Other 10ga semi-autos would probably cost a lot more, but partly due to their high grade. Basically trade high grade for reliability and ergonomics. Come to think of it, that's the Saigas right there.
This is just brainstorming, but hopefully the more realistic type. What do you think about this idea?
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I'm currently doing a good bit of review of my operations, time, and expenses. Eventually I expect to make a "state of the union" type of post, but the gist of things is that I will be estimating turnaround times according to a projected schedule. I'm going to try to hold pricing as much as possible, but some items or options may go up. There's a possibility that I may tip the pricing balance more in favor of production items and charge more for custom orders than at present. Or possibly offer an option for a lower price at a longer lead time, which would allow me to make stocks in assembly line fashion.
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Certainly wouldn't want to trash on innovation, and I'm all for study exercises. Sometimes something developed for one machine will have an unexpected advantage for another.
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AOW includes smoothbore handguns of any caliber. DD includes "nonsporting" shotguns.
If the bore is under 50 cal, it is rifled, and it never had a buttstock, it could be a regular handgun.
Me, if I had a slug barrel on something, I'd want a decent length and a shoulder stock. If I had an affordable ammo solution, I might really go for a rifled barrel conversion of a Saiga 20 or 12ga.
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I've made "blank" furniture that has the connection points and inletting doen for the Saiga but is otherwise a block for the buyer to shape as he desires.
E-mail me if interested.
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Cvasqu03 was an excellent buyer for a niche item with customized details. His timing was excellent and he was very helpful with giving me as much information as he could about what he wanted.
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Even better, you have a 5, a 3, and... wow... a 1! I'd emphasize that one in your shoes.
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I know you said you're not interested in 922R issues, but I can't think of any way you can get your Saiga US compliant with that stock and not replacing any FCG parts. A US made FCG modified for Saigas would be $65 from me. In fact that's exactly the price difference you listed.
With the ACE stock, you'd still need to replace 3 more parts with US made ones, but at least it would be doable. The Ace stock + FCG + piston would do it.
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You can thread the muzzle all you like if the rifle is US compliant, just make sure your muzzle attachment is US made or that you put a US piston in there to offset it while keeping the stock handguard.
My Saiga X39 has the factory handguard, K-var buttstock, SAW grip, and Polish synth mag that all match in texture. It's a really neat combination.
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A furniture set for the Saiga 100 would start at $140 shipped. This is one step up from the price for other Saiga rifles due to larger size and a more complicated attachment point on the buttstock.
If I did a mag + furniture compliance package, it would probably include a couple mags and a price break for the package.
Can't say how soon, except that it would be at least a few months before I could even start, and even then I would have to R&D a bit.
As I said, I would estimate the investment value at about $4000, and I would have to sell about a hundred mags before it starts to make economic sense.
When you think about it, 100 mags really isn't that many at all. People just have to buy the rifles first. So this thread is about getting people to take the rifles seriously if they want any mag and accessory manufacturers to take the rifles seriously. Not the other way around.
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THANK you for restoring the editing feature. Let's everyone show our apprectation by making the most sensible contributions to this forum's discussions.
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Check this thread for general overview.
http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=9471
And PM me to discuss an order.
Pricing would be more than using an NHM stock, but it will be made in the US to your specs and will count for US parts compliance.
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Well now you've given some more key criteria - your price range.
From this point it's simple. If you want hi-cap mags and best accuracy, get a Saiga X39. 20" barrel if it's your preference. Probably about $300 after fees. Add about $100 and your labor to do the P-grip conversion and mod for hi-cap mags. Then you can buy optics, other accessories, and ammo.
Any dimensional/structural advantages of the thicker receiver will be most likely offset by the current manufacturing quality of the Saiga vs the used military condition of most other models.
I have to say that I think you're thinking too hard about a few details of the rifle and not enough about how all the details fit together. A Saiga X39 will cover your bases pretty darned well, and if you practice adequately with it you will be better off than if you spent your time and money trying to custom build your first AK.
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Bingo. That's if you don't convert (which you can, even if you don't go all out like Tromix.) That's a drop in package with an improved stock and fresh mag, which would be legal with the factory mag too.
But people who want to save the most $$, prefer synth furniture, or just don't like mine could finish their parts compliance with a $20 piston.
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If you want top accuracy and are willing to go with a 16" barrel, a milled SLR modded to take hi-caps is the best deal out there, even though no longer produced. Perhaps comprable prices and quality would be had with a professionally built threaded barreled model on a Firing Line receiver. You'll probably pay a fair majority of a grand on that.
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Keeping ads to contributors only, on high and low levels, is something I consider to be a step forward. One that will help people to give this forum its due and drastically improve conduct in the For Sale section, all in the same action.
Keeping this forum going up and not down is everyone's business. That includes being part of the solution instead of jumping on a negative bandwagon. It also means speaking your mind to management POLITELY and with an awareness that what you and they have in common is wanting to make this forum a good and attractive place for good people, and make sure that the details add up to just that.
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Chvymann's concern for buyer satisfaction is impeccable, as was the timeliness of his shipping and quality of his communication. He does honest business and stands behind what he sells, even though just an individual, not a business.
The one area where he fell short in our transaction was in the area of knowledge of what he was selling. The details are between us and everything is resolved. He is very patient and willing to communicate and offer favorable terms to those considering his items, so take the time to research and ask thorough questions before finalizing a deal, instead of expecting him to have all the answers.
That said, I suspect he will be much better prepared in the future, and people will wonder what a nut I am for saying he's anything less than perfect.
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I am looking for the most accurate rifle in 7.62x39 that I can get. With 20.5 inch barrel which can take high cap mags.
That would be the AR-15. Yes it is chambered for X39, requiring different magazines. But you probably want something AK or SKS based, right? The most accurate with that barrel length would be an Arsenal RPK on a milled receiver. Expect to pay over a grand. You do not want to use hi-caps in an SKS, unless it was originally made to take AK mags. You can get them in 20" barreled versions, but expect to pay a bit. Even then, reliability is still better in an AK. For SKS reliability, keep the original mag.
THe problem is that I am no gunsmith, but would love any and all help in building such rifle. What equipment do you need to build the rifle. Where can you get a Saiga front end and fr/rr trunnions and ejector? I would love to build such rifle. The question is. How and where to get the parts?You are not ready to build an AK if you do not have experience owning, stripping, non-critically modifying, and other AK related knowledge beforehand. What equipment do you need? Power tools, and if you plan on rebarreling or using a different bolt, a 12 ton shop press. And you need to use a lot of care. Some slips of the hand are no big deal, others will cost you huge chunks of the project, and you need to know which ones are which before building a firearm.
For an entry level hi-cap X39 that will give excellent accuracy for that round, a Saiga X39 would be the way to go. After you have examined and understand it, and study the tutorial linked in the FAQ section, you can do the P-grip conversion. It's very forgiving of inexperience as long as you remove and protect critical components.
Then you will have a full length X39 rifle. If you then want something Yugo based, you can consider building a Tabuk clone using M70 parst and a new US made barrel. But maybe you'll want a carbine to complement your rifle. You could build any variety of AKs or modify a Saiga. But do that AFTER getting serious exposure to the AK system.
If you want a rifle you can build without prior experience with the model, you need an AR-15. AKs are a level or two up.
Raffle for forum fund raiser?
in General Discussion - Any topic is welcome here!!!
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You could want Miss Saiga, but the 13th Amendment prevents you from owning her.
I'd be amenable to contributing items for a raffle in place of sales-based contributions (in whole or in part). One forum I list on preferred that method.