my762buzz
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Posts posted by my762buzz
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These things are good to know and yeah shooting stuff is fun. This is why any one seriously stocking up has at least two grades of ammo, the everyday take out to the range or everyday load out and the more "humane" rounds. There is one caution, any bullet that fragments easily does not penetrate as well. You cant have it both ways the longer the thing stays together the more energy is retained to carry it though walls, level 3, etc etc etc. So don't put all the eggs in one basket.
There is nothing better to take to the range or form the backbone of your stores than the yugo. It wont last forever and someday we all will wish we bought more. But several hundred rounds of v max or soft point (Remington) cant be overlooked and one mag should be loaded with them on any load out.
Now if you really want to make holes I cant over recommend the 308 Saiga just happens to sell.
I been wanting to test out the various hp at steel and compare to fmj. Someone put up a video of 3/8 inch plate shot with wolf hp. I think any of these types of 7.62x39 can easily cut through a car door and stay mostly intact. For any serious penetration work, I think I would get one of my launching platforms that send off 405 to 500 grain .458 diameter bullets at 1500-2000 fps.
Still interesting to see a 3/8 steel plate pierced by a 7.62x39 hollow point.
The wolf hp description is shown on the actual page the video is hosted on.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zke2JLYWlMc&feature=watch_response_rev
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thanks my762buzz for straighting things out.
Your welcome.
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I used my S-12 to shoot a slug into some Class III Kevlar, no plates, just for shits and giggles, but there are some people I know (friends and family) who think it is survivable.
An LEO I know was shot while wearing soft armor with a .357 service revolver at close range and was bruised really bad. With no plate, its going to really hurt.
With a plate, the plate bears the impact and transfers any momentum to your body. The shove of momentum is no more than the recoil force of the gun.
A .308 win versus a plate doesn't seem to have much effect against the wearer. I guess I would be curious myself to see how a slug would affect the wearer.
Mythbusters did a knock down power experiment with a test dummy with a plate versus a deer slug and a military .50 caliber.
The slug impact tipped the test dummy over but about the same as a baseball impact they try just before. I suppose it could stun the person a bit
but not necessarily knock them over with overwhelming force. They calculated the slug impact moved the dummy 1 inch backwards and the .50 about 2.5 inches.
I guess most people would have expected the .50 to send the test dummy flying far back.
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OK just to help clear things up for an old brain.... general consensus wolf mc 124 grain in what looks like cammo box best option, then generic wolf jhps along with various bear types as long as they range 122 to 124 grain?
Russian made hollow points in this order
(Most effective) Wolf MC/camo box 8m3 > Brown/silver/golden bear hp > Wolf Black box hp (least effective)
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It looks from the water jugs that the 8m3 HP is about as devestating as the Hornady V Max. Close enough for me, especially when I am paying $4.39 per 20 for 500 rounds.
From examining the water containers and wet paper media tests I would think they are fairly close enough in performance.
From the famous 2006 testing thread on theakforum there is a decently focused wet paper exit hole picture at 200 yards with 8m3.
Pretty big hole to say the least for 200 yards. That hole at 200 yards is larger than the tumbling yugo fmj hole at close range in the video in in the first post.
I would say that with the advent of this well designed bullet the russian engineers have made the nastiest wounding intermediate range bullet that has ever been exported
to the US from Russia. The bonus is it works fantastic on deer and hogs also. If the whitehouse ever shuts down foreign ammo imports, its nice to know there is a US bullet and load for 7.62x39 that works just as well as 8m3. Buy it cheap and stack it deep in your ammo stockpile.
at 200 yards
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They say in the video 123gr HP.. they mean the BLACK BOX one and not the MC??.. great video though..
Anyone find a test on the 124gr MC HP??
I seen this video a few times before and can't figure out why he is calling wolf hp 123 grains? 123 grains is the bear ammo hp.
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Awesome videos. Do you guys know if the Brown Bear HPs are an 8m3 like the Wolf MC? Also how do the Bear FMJs with an air pocket compare to the HP rounds?
Not the same bullet as 8m3. The surplus yugo 7.62x39 fmj is suppose to be purposely made to tumble and even so a serious tumbling mil spec round like this accounts for only enough damage
to insert two fingers. The velocity is there but the mechanism is lacking to produce the most wounding possible. Increasing the frontal surface area that drags along in tissue will produce more tissue damage. Tumbling obviously increases the amount of surface area over an fmj frontal point but no where the same as with a bullet that expands widely or is torn open or into several pieces. An intact side ways moving bullet profile has a nice round cylinder shape that passes through tissue with less turbulence that a flat or jagged edge profile.
Consider if anyone would find it easier to extract an intact bullet from a wound or bullet that has been deformed and ripped. The bullet that has deformed or expanded while traveling through tissue will increase the amount of pressure imparted upon the tissue and cause more damage. FMJ works but never as well as expansion and fragmentation can.
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Those Brown Bear HP sure did a number...almost like the other rounds...
The brown bear hp used was video 2 shot 1. Better than wolf hp from video 1 but not near as much expanding/fragmenting as MC 8m3.
If things keep moving like they are with 7.62x39, Russian ammo importers will hopefully take notice and eventually get the Russian ammo makers
to produce a ballistic tip variety for export designed to work similar to vmax and hopefully at par price wise with other russian ammo.
Sellier & Bellot started this and hopefully it catches on.
http://www.sellier-bellot.cz/hunting-rifle-ammunitions-with-pts-bullets.php?product=19&view=all
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.223 vmax on second shot decent size hole but still not as big as the earlier fist size hole
5.45x39 is less mass so it will not likely do any more damage if a 5.45 vmax bullet was used
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Anyone find any ballistics tests of the 5.45 vmax?
Here is a start 7n6 I will look for some wet paper tests.
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someone else also did water container testing and for total depth
I guess I might get some wet phone books to test 8m3 at close range and make a video.
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Cool shit, but I do wish that you tested Wolf Military Classic 124 gr HP too. That 8M3 "Sapsan" bullet is supposed to be simply devastating, blowing all .223 loads out of the water. It's probably close to the VMax in performance at 1/10th the cost. I've been stocking up on that stuff lately. Any way, thanks for the entertainment.
I did on water containers. Yep it is close and less expensive
1st video shot 1 FMJ
shot 2 Wolf HP
shot 3 MC 8m3
shot 4 vmax
2nd video 1 Brown bear hp
2 MC 8m3
3 vmax
4 corbon hp 150 grain
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Damm its hard to believe a vmax can produce 10 times the damage that a yugo fmj does and 4 times the damage a wolf soft point produces within a short pathway through media. If someone could take one of these vmax or a russian 8m3 blowing a fist size hole in their chest and still pose a threat, they would be one serious badass. I can see how fmj might not do the job on the first shot but how many people could lose that much tissue with the more serious bullet design impacts with maybe a few pints of blood lost instantly and not fall over from sudden loss of blood pressure with liquified organs like heart, liver, and lungs. I know how people get so excited about FMJ tumbling but it is still not in the same league with expanding fragmenting bullets.
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I found this video and had to guess this guy might have seen one of my vmax threads earlier this year.
Yugo FMJ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3ZEfr-WcuY&feature=related
Wolf sp and vmax
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-iUZqinYv2Y&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL
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Any one found some ballistic gel test? I'm curious what the ball will do.
Under 1300 fps, a big wound path just like slugs form going through. Plenty of real slug wound profiles on this link.
http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=109958&start=40
At around 1300 fps, you can add the infamous "pressure wave" as termed by ballistics researcher Dr. Courtney
http://www.ballisticstestinggroup.org/ballistics.htm
At 1800 fps on up, all the above and now rifle like flesh liquifying with a new level of shock. The horrifying combination of fast and heavy. The only factory load I know of that achieves this velocity is Rem high velocity slugger at 1875 fps.
A 0.65 caliber soft lead ball handloaded to 1800-2000 fps could potentially act like russian 8m3 but with over 3 times the lead. To fast to hunt with because it will blow a portion of a deer's torso up and make a hell of a mess. Not good for deer but great for zombies.
Every time I think about fast and heavy this image resurfaces and its not mine but it was shot with a very fast and heavy load.
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I swear somewhere on this forum there was a thread about ball rounds being just as acurate as slugs but I dont know a whole lot.
If you think all of those rounds are cool google Dixie Tri-ball. God I wish saiga could shoot 3 1/2
$12 for a box of 5 dixie tri balls with .60 caliber balls. $2.20 a shot
I been wanting to pour, cast, and load my own balls or slugs with a cup. I keep seeing that tire wheel lead weights are being phased out to non-lead like for example zinc because of some
new environmental law. I guess the scrap metal yards might offer the next best deal on lead.
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Ok, I'm tired of the poison bullet Nonsense. It was called the poison bullet because, if you were shot with it, you still had enough juice to run away; however, you'd often later died from the wounds received a few hours-DAYS later. The wounds were fatal, yes, but not immediately after being shot- hence, poison.
I agree the poison bullet idea is rather silly. More people during the civil war died of wound infection days later. So I guess musket ball ammo is Mc Super Sized poison bullet.
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7.62x39 likes to make a big round hole and keep going.
All my 7.62x39 hp or bt ammo blows shit up and does not make a nice clean .30 hole.
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It costs a little more, but this ammo looks more interesting to me. 2 .65 balls per shell, rather than 1, made by the same company.
Once again thanks for pointing this load out. There is a thread at shotgunworld where someone used a wad wizard and his centurian defense ball and buck loads were perfectly centered with the ball in the middle. Now that two .65 ball loads exist to test, this could get real interesting. The larger the lead balls the less they spread apart and retain better velocity.
I got a wad wizard to test with so now I just need a few hundred of these loads.
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Holy crap! There's no way that stuff is supersonic...
I just seen on the package picture 1200 fps.
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It costs a little more, but this ammo looks more interesting to me. 2 .65 balls per shell, rather than 1, made by the same company.
Holy shit. You just made my week.
Each 0.65 ball is 394 grains. Not sure of the velocity.
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The Buck and Ball stuff is pretty ridiculous. It gives Winchester PDX1 a run for its money and is a lot cheaper too.
Speaking of HD loads the WInchester PDX1 is pretty nice. Buck and slugs mix and it's specifically marketed for Home Defense so it would be hard for someone to try and say it is "exotic"
Wow. I guess no problem for home defense. Any attorney can compare it to Winchester's load and show it is mainstream. This is good to know thanks.
Yeah, you could claim that you shot the perp with a flintlock musket
Yeah that is another comparison that can be drawn from. Your honor, he used colonial era style ammunition. A musket ball just like George Washington used to defend this great nation. LOL
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Got some of that buck and ball too. Good stuff.
Well damm, you must have had some fun with this load then.
I might need to buy a few cases.
winchester 7.62
in Saiga 7.62 X 39
Posted
I tried them before with no problems. The very old batches from years ago had soft primers that could set off by floating firing pins but the primers were changed to hard ones.