Eric Pate
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Posts posted by Eric Pate
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Then Have I got the gun for you:
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2018/01/31/shot-2018-new-bullpup-semiauto-shotguns-adler/
Adkal based? turkish bullpup shotgun, also some true horrors that came straight from a video game random element gun generator.
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There are a few things you can do, but none are really satisfactory.
1. Buy a new gas block with the rail intact (expensive)
2. Buy a clamp-on rail (would put the VG pretty far forward, may have trouble reaching it)
3. Get a handguard with a rail (I'm guessing you want to keep your custom wood furniture)
4. Screw a rail to your handguard (not great for custom wood furniture)
5. Forego the VG, as the problem it is creating is disproportionate to the perceived benefit of its use.
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Well, just got the official data back from the suppressor metering and sadly the results look just as ugly as they sounded.
All credit goes to NFA Talk.org for organizing the event and hosting the worlds largest database of independently verified suppressor tests. Special thanks to Plunky and ArevaloSOCOM for putting in all the hard work to make it happen. Detailed testing data and methodology can be found here.
Left Ear:
Unsuppressed = 162 dB.
1m @ Muzzle:
Unsuppressed = 165.4 dB
Short version for the mathematically challenged: you're looking at an average sound reduction of roughly 9-10 decibels.
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I put an ALG AKT into one of my AKMs, and despite my initial skepticism I've actually been pretty impressed. Not an expensive unit but performs very well and even comes with an accessory spring if one prefers a somewhat heavier pull with a nice clean break. I did have to fit it to the safety on that particular rifle. I'd like to put them in all my AK-type actions. Only complaint is they have a non-traditional contour which I could do without.
IMHO, the argument for decent triggers in an AK is not ultimate precision, but quick follow-ups.
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Is it still $1000 a month for vendor status?
ETA: My bad. $1200/year.
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The 7.5" Kitty Kat is definitely the loudest firearm I own, more so than the 8" 12 gauge or even the 30" .50BMG (yes, really). It really does clear the bench at public ranges and, as mentioned, you feel it in your sinuses. Minor hearing damage is assured, even with plugs and muffs.
I don't know if anyone is "impressed" by its loudness. Annoyed, maybe.
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45 Colt/44magnum HEAVY FRAME revolver using heavy Win 296 or H110 loads. Fireball machine.
If you're not into reloading, an AK pistol is pretty loud in 7.62x39.
Almost any rifle caliber handgun is going to be insanely loud.
This 7.62x54R handgun would fit the bill nicely. That caliber is loud out of a Mosin Nagant, let alone a handgun.
RPK handgun:
Wow so Black Horse is back? Last I remember, they burned a bunch of customers (and Atlantic Firearms IIRC) over non-existant parts/firearms and went out of business. Anyone know the story? New ownership or something? Looks like they're still making a bunch of the PSL/SVD stuff that would certainly be desirable if functional and/or obtainable.
Concerning the (photoshopped) 54R pistol, are we not still threatening to burn manufacturers at the stake for making a 54R pistol and getting surplus ammo banned?
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Loudness is usually related to muzzle pressure. Guns that generate high pressure at the muzzle (AR15s in general, SBR AR15s in particular) are usually seen as "louder" than guns with lower muzzle pressure, as the crack will be much sharper. If that makes sense.
Why would anyone want a revolver chambered in .30 carbine? I'm failing to see the appeal.
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Looks good man.
Thanks Bob, I really appreciate it. You guys made me a great base gun to build on! Its been dead-nuts reliable since day one.
Try some Federal Top Gun with that can. The Salvo 12 is absolutely hearing safe with Top Gun coming out of a 13.5" barrel. At least with that ammo in an 8" barrel you can eliminate sonic crack and get down to how well the can is suppressing the explosion.
I've been running these loads here. Required the reduced power recoil spring and gas system set to "3". They are definitely subsonic out of my barrel.
Nowhere near hearing safe unfortunately. I'd like to play around with a Saiga-adapter-equipped Salvo sometime.
The only other thing I can do to increase suppression is to run the can wet, which is not under warranty but works fairly well anyway. I don't have any dB numbers for that though.
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If you're serious about doing plastic welding, one of these welders will do most anything and runs $70 at HF. They are essentially pinpoint-tip variable-temp heat guns. I used these extensively filling voids from the molding process at Jackson Kayak.
Plastic welding is a real skill and takes a little practice to perform competently. Different plastics will behave differently at varying temps. You need to match your donor material, and get it just hot enough to bond, usually when the plastic takes on a shiny "wet" appearance. Do not get the plastic hot enough to bubble. GunFun laid out the general idea pretty well, but there are a lot of little secrets to making it work right. Like using a piece of waxed film (not paper) from the back of a decal to get a nice smooth finish without scorching your fingers. Add a dab of Tire Shine (no really) to the film to prevent sticking and allow you to rub it smooth. Flash with a torch to eliminate scuff marks after sanding.
After a while, I got good enough to weld plastic with my fingertips. Gotta be quick!
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Well it is a well known and documented fact that if you irritate the alphabet gang, they will irritate you right back.
Armalite, check into the XCaliber suppressor. It has an indexable front sight and reports indicate slightly better reduction numbers than the Salvo. Its rated for 20ga too.
Oh and the 10" measurement on the Mitigator is the added length.
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So how's the can sound with it?
I checked them out.
I like the price but not the length at 12 inches.
that would bring me to 22 inches just in barrel with my 12 inch gun.
Someone could avoid a extra stamp though with a S17 gun like yours with that perm. attached, and still maintain a decent OAL.
Rich
Lol, it sounds terrible.
J/K, not really. Well, kinda. I'll try to explain:
It does not suppress to the degree that your average suppressor is capable of in most other calibers. Keep in mind that an 8" 12 gauge is excessively loud by any standard, so you're only going to get so much performance no matter what. It does an excellent job of knocking off the blast and concussion, as one would expect. It does not do an appreciable job of taking the measurable decibel levels down any significant degree. For example, the unsuppressed reading came in at 165dB, and with the can attached we were only getting readings in the mid 150's. Not terribly impressive by-the-numbers, but anyone who does metering will tell you there is more to it than that. The tone was noticeably lower and lacked the typical sharp crack. Use of a can like this typically causes the sound levels to drop off more quickly as one moves away from the shooter as well. So while the numbers are still high at the shooters position, it will (theoretically) get progressively quieter as one moves away from the shooter. There should also (again, theoretically) be almost no muzzle flash, but I have not tried night shooting to verify.
IMO, the problem with shotgun cans is the excessive volume of gas. With centerfire rifles, its all about handling crazy high muzzle pressure. But I think a shotgun creates waaay more volume of gas (albeit at a lower pressure) than a reasonably sized tube can handle. I believe one could make a great full-sized integral if one built the gun around it.
BTW, the above can is 10 inches in length and brings my 8" gun up to approximately the same length as my 18" perm'd gun. A single-stamp gun could be done with a perm'd tube, but I'm thinking I actually appreciate the "shortness" I'm getting out of the SBS more than the "hushness" I'm getting out of the can. YMMV.
Size comparison:
Overall, I'd say "Mitigator" is a pretty fair name. It does noticeably suppress the report at the shooters ear, but it sure won't make your gun quiet. Forget going without ear protection.
You can do about the same with the salvo and not use all the pieces. It can be assembled in a short and a long format.
Funny thing is; when I got in on the preorder for this thing, Tom was intending to make this a modular can similar to how the Salvo is made. He never could get it approved by ATF-FTB. Odd how they are now allowing all of these modular cans we're currently seeing on the market.
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Sure, why not?
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Birdshot and target loads are still as tame as ever. Buckshot and slugs are a bit of a wild ride though. Not too bad as long as you don't go for a tight cheekweld. The steel buttplate doesn't particularly bother me. I made it through a box of shells before the handguard started to warm up.
I will be metering this combo today so it should be interesting to see some actual dB reduction numbers on the old CGW Mitigator.
Believe it or not, I actually got this thing to run the Federal Subsonic shotshells by turning the gas up to 3 and dropping in a reduced power recoil spring. Weak ejection but functions 100% from the shoulder. I was able to induce some ejection failures by firing one handed and limpwristed. Still runs the bulk pack target loads in this configuration without excessive recoil.
winninngg.jpg
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Stock was modded by welding up the huge VZ-58 stock screw hole and drilling it to ACE hole pattern. Handguard just needed the edges trimmed to fit around the gas block then a hole drilled for the HG screw. He may have relieved the inside a bit, haven't checked. He did clean up the front for aesthetics, though not strictly necessary.
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Doing well thanks. Went through a lot of life changes in the past couple of years. Took me a bit to get back on my feet. Now I'm playing with guns again and having a great time.
Thanks for the kind words guys. And yes... shooting it is not for the faint of heart.
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Hey guys. Took a much needed break from the Forum for a little while. Been almost two years since I logged in. I see that its pretty much the same guys hanging out, some with a few thousand more posts, lol. And sure enough, a thread on double stack mags first thing.
Anyways, I just stopped by to show you guys the makeover I had done to my S17. I know yall appreciate this sort of thing and what with the flood of aftermarket bolt-on upgrades in recent years, I know I like seeing something original and well executed.This is what it looked like before. Pretty much a standard Tromix S-17.
The funky triggerguard and inability to use standard AK grips has gradually become... distracting to me. Nothing against Tony, he does amazing work and this has been one of the most reliable weapons I've owned; not a common trait in mag-fed gas-operated 8" shotguns!
I had some inspiration for a much sleeker minimalist build from parts I collected at Knob Creek, so I collaborated with Leland at Sierra Ordnance Co. to adapt a VZ-58 folding stock and AMD-65 handguards.
He also replaced the triggerguard with the standard AK-type and removed the Tromix-style PG post and nut with the standard AK T-nut.
Didn't really require too much fitting work actually. Refinished with cerakote over park.
It gained just a little bit of weight over the plastic stock and handguards.
feelsgoodmang.gif
LOP is 13.5" and folded OAL is 18.5".
I could almost holster this thing.-
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DistalRadius next you will try to tell me that the UCC is not what we actually live under. Ask any banker. The moment your birth certificate and beast number are issued. You become a commodity in the international market place. The common law court people do have it right. However, I can tell that you know the "system" will do whatever it takes to protect itself.
You lost me at "beast number".
All I'm saying is you guys should do a little research for yourself, I don't expect anyone to take my word for it. Yes, the powers that be suck and want to control us and take everything we have, absolutely true. But this stuff you're bringing up is borderline delusional, and since the FBI does in fact consider Sovereign Citizens to be "extremists compromising a domestic terrorist movement", I felt the need to speak up before someone gets inadvertently caught up in a dangerous ideology by believing a blatantly false doctrine of imaginary legal proceedings.
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WARNING
Indy, HB, Spartacus, Vepr:
You guys are getting firmly into Sovereign Citizen territory with the Admiralty court/gold fringed flag/contractual court documents bullshit. It is simply not true. This is way beyond the typical tin-foil conspiracy stuff and flying head-first into the tier-one domestic terrorism category. Please be extremely discerning with what you read on the internet, this particular brand of anti government rhetoric is extremely dangerous to be associated with and is not based in reality at all. It is an erroneous, dangerous, and fundamentally flawed ideology that has been propagating itself throughout prison systems, militias, and the internet over the past ten years. Please do some research on it from actual non-extremist sources, and see for yourself.
I know you won't like being told this, but I actually care about what happens to you guys and I don't want to see you fall for some cult-like BS just because we all hate the guv and surround ourselves with like minded people.
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Yeah, its all dependent on body chemistry, that quirky genetic luck-of-the-draw. Everybody is different and not everyone responds to the same thing.
One more note about gout is that it occurs in "flareups", meaning that you can go a long time without symptoms but there is a sudden "tipping point" when the uric acid builds up to a certain level and triggers the inflammatory response. So just be aware that it probably is not truly gone when it stops hurting. Sucks I know, but thats just how it is.
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Everything that has been stated is correct. Stay away from red meat, beer, pickled or rich foods, and peanut butter (thats a big one).
My patients always gave glowing reports from cherry juice/extract.
Yes, that crap hurts like hell. Indomethicin or allopurinol are most commonly prescribed. Like all medications, their efficacy is dependent on your particular body chemistry.
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It'll become worth it once the overseas supply of AK parts gets cut off. Till then; combloc milsurp all the way.
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There will always be about a century of lag with commercial fixed-casing ammunition technology because consumers demand reverse compatibility in their firearms. Thats the only reason 12-gauge and .22 is still being made to 100-year-old specs, both are horribly outdated cartridge designs by modern standards.
Change will only come when the benefits will obviously outweigh the compatibility issue, as with the development of .45 ACP and 7.62x51NATO.
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So, is everybody still there?
Nobody suffocated under their tinfoil, I hope? 
What is your favorite Saiga 12 build ever?
in Saiga-12
Posted
My S17 "Para".
Details in this thread.