Montana3gunner
-
Content Count
153 -
Joined
-
Last visited
Content Type
Profiles
Forums
Gallery
Blogs
Calendar
Store
Posts posted by Montana3gunner
-
-
Original post edited to reflect the Handguard and HEOS sold pending funds.
-
Edited Price of Lower...
Since it appears that there is no page for members to post items for sale, I guess I will do it here. Mods, please move this as needed. I wanted to post here before gunbroker etc. May post on Brian Enos as well. All prices DO NOT include shipping. You pay actiual shipping. Will only ship CONUS and the XN MKA will only be shipped to your FFL.
For Sale:
Brand new in the box, never fired, XN model MKA 1919. Bought it to build a Tac-12 with the below Firebird parts and have now purchased a Firebird A1. $550.
Also for sale:
Firebird Precision Tac-12 Aluminum lower, "in the white". I purchased this with the intent of plating or Cerakoting it. Never fired or mounted this lower. I will Cerakote it in Black, Coyote Brown, or Foilage Green for the buyer for free, if purchased for listing price. (Retail $375) my price $325
Firebird Precision HEOS High Energy Operating System- New, never fired - (Retail $105) my price $85 Back up for sale
Firebird short length handguard, never fired (retail $259) My price $225 Back up for sale
Firebird Lower Parts kit, never fired (retail $188) My price $90 (might have a few parts missing from the current version. PM if interested for exact parts. You can use the parts in your existing lower and this parts kit to finish building out the Firebird lower for a complete lower, with better (and U.S. made parts.
-
Finally, a word on Prarie Storm. Please..no. Step away from the Prairie Storm. I know what you're doing...it's your secret shotgun spinner ju ju so you can spin that spinner in one shot. I was doing the same thing 2 years ago,
I've not tried the Prairie Storm shells on a spinner yet. I picked up three boxes of this stuff for some nuisance coyotes. Only shot two rounds of it so far. It didn't seem as bad as some hot slug rounds I ran through it in the past.
I intentionally left my gun in 3" configuration (FB long handguard and no HES gas systerm) so I could shoot the occasional 3" load. But now that sounds like a bad idea.
Funny! I assumed you were using it for spinners because you were talking about 3 gunning...that's what I get for Ass-u-me. BTW, most of the problems I've seen are with the 2 3/4" PS. Can't imagine what a 3" is doing.
Seems like I can just barely get my MKA with a 15 rounder in a blue barrel? I will also dump the mag if there is a few feet of transition, but sometimes you are standing over the barrel when you stop shooting and would like to just dump it in there and for whatever reason, my 15s don't always drop free.
Good to hear you haven't had problems shooting the 23. I'm considering...
Starting with an MKA in a barrel is just wrong. Good time for coupled 10s.
-
Thanks for the kind words.
T & N - agree with you on the 23 rounders, relative to stage design and overcoming that gap with the Saiga drums. For that reason, I have some interest in both your 23 rounders and the 18 rounders. I currently sport two 15's, 4 FB 10's and 6 5rounders. Not all at the same time thank goodness.
There are two reasons I haven't bought the 18/23 round mags, but I look forward to more info and feedback on these issues:
1) They seem pretty unweildy to me. At some point, does it become a hinderance to have that big long mag hanging down there? How does the gun swing? Clays? What if you want to kneel and shoot a spinner at 50 y? (monopod! lol!)
2) As I stated in another post - I worry about spring tension on that 1st round. At some point, the longer a mag gets, does the spring tension create problems? One of the supposed advantages of a drum is the contstant spring pressure (I can't speak from experience on that topic - only basing that on others input).
With a self-rebuilt MKA running approx $1200 for all the bells and whistles, and a full custom built running $2k, if we can get a good 20-23 round drum, and we can collectively get the MKA platform to be more dependable (on average) than the alternatives - the MKA would become THE gun in the open division. I think a well built barrel would really help as well, particularly with recoil, FTF issues (round hanging up on the extractor slot) and slug accuracy. I honestly think that making improvements on all of those fronts is possible over the next 12-24 months, and thanks to the good vendors who have committed to this platform, it sounds like many of those improvements are on their way.
The race is on to get the MKA over the hump and put it in the same category as the other open guns before other platforms fill the gap....but it's very close.
-
It all depends on you application. I shoot 3 gun, so that is the prism that I view the MKA through. Others want it for blowing up pumpkins or home defense...whatever's your bag, but that will dictate what you need from that gun.
I'm starting my 3rd 3 Gun season on my original GEN 1 MKA (albeit with considerable amount of FB upgrades). This includes trips to the MGM Iron Man, Crimson Trace, and some other fairly big matches. The first year was a little rough, as we all tried to solve issues on the fly with an entirely new platform. However, last year my MKA ran pretty darn well. Did it have malfunctions - yes, but none catastrophic. Mostly just a FTF or FTE here or there. I'd venture to say that now my MKA is as dependable as any shotgun - box fed or not, that I see in 3 gun matches. That is saying something. Last year I shot the Crimson Trace and Montana Multi-Gun Championship (within a 2 week span) without a single malfunction...of any kind.
My original drive block is still going, although frankly I don't expect that MKA to last a whole lot longer. Typically, if you shoot a lot of 3 gun, your shot gun lasts about 3 years, regardless of the brand. They just aren't built to shoot 2-3k rounds, year in, and year out. About 4k-6k rounds (or less) you'll start having problems with it, and replace all the parts (which doesn't always work) or maybe you'll just get bored with it and buy the next latest and greatest.
For those who think the Saiga just runs and runs...It's not an AK...it's a shot gun. It still has to load those flat nosed shotgun hulls that were never designed for box fed shotguns.
I not only shoot 3 gun, but RO as well, and I've seen my fair share of Saigas (and Benellis too) that have plenty of problems when put in a 3 gun match...even the $3000 R and R's can go belly up. I've seen bolts break, pistons break, etc. I do know of a couple Saigas in this part of the county that run pretty well, but not any better than my MKA at this point. Neither gun seems to run that well out of the box (at least not in 3 gun) but the MKAs seem to be easier and cheaper to get where they are dependable.
Provided both guns run the main differentiating factor between the Saiga and MKA is if the Saiga guy has a 20 round drum that runs, they are going to be a little faster on stages with 20 rounds or less of shotgun. However, 21-30 round stage and the MKA will be slightly ahead. 32+ round stage and the MKA has a pretty big advantage. Also, woe be the Saiga shooter on a "gauntlet" type stage or a blind stage where you can't plan your mag out.
In 3 gun, if you are going to shoot Open, you're typicall going to either 1) shoot a stock MKA/Saiga which you've put a lot of time into OR 2) you are going to spend $1200-$3000 to upgrade and/or buy a quality Open shotgun. I think I have about $1200 into my current MKA. Heck, most Tac Ops shooters I know buy a Versa/FN/or maybe a 930 JM and spend $500+ modifying it (Opening the load port, swapping out parts with Bennelli parts, etc.) so what's the difference? I'm not saying you can't run what you brung at ANY 3 gun match, and have a GREAT time (that was me in 2005!) but it's not optimal. You're not going to see a lot of those guns in the hands of guys winning good local matches, let alone Regional matches. If the new FB A1 runs well, and is made with the same quality as their oher MKA parts, it's a bargain at $2k.
Finally, a word on Prarie Storm. Please..no. Step away from the Prairie Storm. I know what you're doing...it's your secret shotgun spinner ju ju so you can spin that spinner in one shot. I was doing the same thing 2 years ago, Control flight Turkey loads too, until I starting seeing what happend to those that danced with the Prarie Storm devil. Last year a lot of shooters where using it in matches..and oh the fun it created. I got to see all kinds of guns blow up. FNs. Versas. etc. Tired of that charging handle? Just run 4-5 rounds of Prairie Storm through it and watch as that charging handle flies over the berm to the next squad! What fun! Sometimes we crammed the charging handle back in the gun and it ran, sometimes it was toast.
I was RO'ing a shooter in Billings last April and as he rolled his gun over to load (using "load 2 technique"). His gun (Versa) went off with a PS load in the chamber, likely caused by a piece of his gear hitting the trigger. It blew the gun out of his hands, cartwheeling the gun 180 degrees so that it landed pointing back toward the squad, and the Match Director (who commenced cardiac arrest)...it sat there with a fresh, hot round in the chamber until I could figue out what had just happened. If that had been a "normal" round, we would have just had an AD. Bad enough, but not the same. Oh ya, it blew his charging handle out too.
Seriously, it is really hard on your gun. Any gun. Also, it's hard on the spinners. I think we'll start seeing more rules in 3 gun this year that limit shotgun loads.
I recommend Federal Control Flight Buckshot. It is soft shooting, accurate, and will definately spin a spinner in two shots if you hit it....and doesn't have near the wear and tear on your gun.
-
Jim, thanks for responding. I know you are super busy.
Does that little protrusion have a name? It appears that thing has two purposes 1) As the bolt is moving rearwards, tip the next round in the mag up so that it comes out of the mag tilted up towards the chamber 2) As the bolt moves forward, push the next round out of the mag. Is this correct?
I am really excited for the A1. Kudos to you guys for taking it on.
-
I have a suggestion on an improvement to the MKA bolt I'd like to throw out to forum members for discussion....
I tried to dig up a pic of an MKA bolt in the interweb but was unsuccessful and I'm to busy/lazy to take my MKA apart...so maybe someone has one laying around and can post a pic of one (preferably the bolt face and some side profile).
I'm wondering about a possible improement to the little piece of metal (not sure what it is called) that is just below the bolt face that picks up the next round from the magazine. As the bolt blows back under recoil, this piece of metal rides over the top of the next round. The problem as I see it, is that causes tension on the bolt...potentially slowing it down. This tension is increased with the more rounds there are in a magazine (due to increased spring pressure). To overcome this tension on the bolt, the gas system has run with have enough gas to dependably cycle on the 1st round in the magazine, and would need less gas to cycle the last round (I'm not sure what the difference between the two would be, but push on a 15 round mag sometime with 1 round and 15 rounds and note the tension difference). This means that we have to run the gas system with significantly? more gas than we'd like to, at least for half the magazine. This increases recoil, increases wear and tear, and may have an effect on dependability?
Would it make sense to have a bolt where the little piece of metal retracted into the bolt on it's way back, but locked into place as the bolt moved forward so it could pick up the next round in the magazine?
This might facilitate the abiltiy to tune the gas system to use less gas and possibily using a lightened bolt and carrier (similar to a JP Low Mass Carrier or others), which might improve recoil?
Hope I explained this clearly...probably not! I may need to post a video so I can explain what in the heck I'm talking about.
-
Wow, that will be fantastic. I typically clean my shotgun after each day of 3gun, especially if I'm somewhere like Parma at the Iron Man. I won't know what to do with the extra 45 minutes that will save me. Guess I'll have time for a beer now!
I'm also looking forward to increased reliability of the retention nut. That thing has been a problem from day 1. Not having the weight of the handguard under recoil should help with that.
-
Jared C - PM sent
-
I have a FB Tac-12a1 on order - can't wait. Jim, wondering if you would be willing to discuss how to dissassemble the T-12a1 for cleaning. I know the upper and lower separate with two pins (very cool) but how do you get the barrel and bolt out to clean it? Do you have any videos uploaded?
Thanks in advance for the info, and really looking forward to shooting the a1 this year in 3 gun.
Chris
-
See my solution on that same thread. Pretty similar to others for 10 rounders.
I don't think kydex holsters is the way to go for the 15 rounders, too long. I think belt clips will be the way to go for the 15s. I am going to try carrying shells up. I wonder if trying to rotate a 15 rounder that is carried shells down wouldn't be too unwieldy. If you carry it shells up, I think it would be easier to grip and pull it straight up into the magwell.
-
Montana 3 Gunner -
I noticed you have the FB short handguard but you have a full length, I think, Gas System?
Correct! That pic is actually from last year. Last year, I purchased one of the very first Firebird hand guards, prior to their new guide rod. That left the old guide rod sticking out and I used it to hold some weights which served to weigh the front of the gun down. Although it was totally ghetto in appearance, it actually worked pretty well.
Since that pic, I've added the new heavy guide rod and the FB HEOS gas system. Also had them put on the new ramps. The latter two mods made a world of difference in the guns reliability and ability to shoot low recoil loads - thus lessening the need to weight the gun down as much (although some weight definitely helps). The new guide rod adds some weight out there but allows you to use FB's retaining nut which is a huge improvement.
You may notice the slightly different color bolt. I coated my internals with Cerakote Microslick. I think it improved the action some, and makes it easier to clean.
I have an ACE stock I need to install. The transition from lower to stock is kind of a mess, I need to do something there, although I will probably put most of my efforts into my new MKA with the new aluminum lower. Here is the gun today:
Anubis "While we only offer them in black anodize, we have sent a few to customers in the white so they can do their own custom finishes"Hmmm...I wonder who that could be?.?? Moi? Others too I suppose. I've got big plans for that lower. If you are going to build an Open gun, might as well go big or go home. I'm matching it with XN upper to build a 2nd gun.
On my original gun, I painted my upper and lower last year with titanium Cerakote. It was disappointing. It kind of just made it look cheap. The plastic lower just didn't take the Cerakote well. A matte color like OD Green or Tan might be fine. The good news is that every time I send it to Firebird for upgrades, they know that gun!
I'm going to take a different approach this time. I'm outsourcing the finish work..which is not easy for a gun painter like me to do.
And BTW, I'm going to make the Firebird logo STAND OUT. Great story Jim. Thanks for sharing.
Here's a pic of my original gun (hey, it kind of looks like the POF .308 posted above)
I seem to recall seeing that gun in here not too long ago for some more modifications. Post a new pic!
Also, that chamber flag is one of Sterling's right? Super awesome dude.
You are correct Anubis! That flag is one of Sterlings. They are great flags. I got it at last year's MGM Iron Man. He gave them to all the RO's.
-
Anubis "While we only offer them in black anodize, we have sent a few to customers in the white so they can do their own custom finishes"
Hmmm...I wonder who that could be?.?? Moi? Others too I suppose. I've got big plans for that lower. If you are going to build an Open gun, might as well go big or go home. I'm matching it with XN upper to build a 2nd gun.
On my original gun, I painted my upper and lower last year with titanium Cerakote. It was disappointing. It kind of just made it look cheap. The plastic lower just didn't take the Cerakote well. A matte color like OD Green or Tan might be fine. The good news is that every time I send it to Firebird for upgrades, they know that gun!
I'm going to take a different approach this time. I'm outsourcing the finish work..which is not easy for a gun painter like me to do.
And BTW, I'm going to make the Firebird logo STAND OUT. Great story Jim. Thanks for sharing.
Here's a pic of my original gun (hey, it kind of looks like the POF .308 posted above) -
Sure you want an adjustable stock? I tried a couple with mine and did not like them at all. Not built for shotgun recoil. I felt like i was just asking for problems, probably at the most inopportune time. And for what? I dont wear body armor so i didnt figure i really nneded an adjustable stock. I didn't really like how they felt.
I am now putting ace and magpul's new fixed stocks on my MKAs.
-
I decided to make my holders with the shells up, because it would be my luck that when I pulled them out shells would go flying. It would also be my luck that it would be some stage where I had a very specific mixture of slugs and birdshot loaded in that mag...
-
1
-
-
Roulette tactical lists their 18 round mag for $186. Video of their mag in action:
-
Anyone know where the 5 rounders with the new follower are for sale?
-
One nice feature of the MKA is that you can insert a mag on a closed bolt. If the stage design, RO, safety rules, and your classification allows it...why not give yourself that extra round?
-
-
For those of you looking for Saiga 12 round mags to convert - My buddy forwarded an email flyer for VEPR 12 round 12 ga. mags from Centerfire Systems. They are advertising them for $45. Wouldn't they work too since we're just cutting off the top of the mag anyway?
I don't need any, but thought this might help the group out.
-
1
-
-
Typically you sandblast the item so that Cerakote will stick better. That would remove the hydrographic printing. I don't know how well Cerakote would stick to hydrographic without blasting, probably not well.
I have seen guys who covered their hydro with other clear coat, including clear bed liner type material. However, some of those materials can be somewhat thick, causing tolerance issues.
I am amazed at the level of detail the hydro guys can produce. They make some very cool patterns.
-
I've painted a ton of guns, so I have some experience In these matters... hydro graphic is great because of the level of detail, painters can't match that detail. However, paint/finishes (ie Cerakote) is much more durable. If a client wants a simpler pattern or one/two color - paint is the way to go.
-
Thanks guys.
Jim, I wonder if it would be worth your time to work something out with C of M to produce something similar that you could offer your customers? Just a thought. I'm sure other customers have a need - especially because many are competitive shooters. Just a thought.
-
Center of Mass makes nice stuff. I don't see MKA mag pouches on their website, but I'm sure they would make you some.
I made my own last year mainly because nobody was making them and I didn't have time to wait. Since I didn't know what I was doing with Kydex, it took a long time. My pouches are functional, but not great. C of M would obviously be significantly better than what I was able to produce, and I probably didn't save much money. If you can get a hold of Rick, I'd recommend going that route.
I am glad that I made a "single", and a "double" or "stacked" pouch. This gives me a lot of flexibility depending on the stage.
-
1
-
NIB XN MKA and Firebird Precision Parts for Sale
in MKA-1919
Posted
Thanks for the inquiries. Here are the parts included with the lower parts kit -