Surefire Mag Feeding Problem

[Got Glock 0]

Hi guys,

I have been lurking around here for a bit and have learned quite a bit from the various posts. I tried using the search function and did not come up with a fix for my problem.

 

It seems that my 13rd Surefire mags is placing the shells nose too high in the gun. It is hitting on the top feed ramp on the gun causing a jam. The way I see it I have two options. The first option might be to bevel the top feed ramp on gun to allow more room and smooth the transition for the incoming cartridge (markup in red line) The second is to cut the mag follower to a more acceptable angle.

 

I am using the #8 shot Estate brand Heavy game loads in 2 and 3/4. The picture shows a shell marked 3 1/2 but that is the dram equivalent.

 

 

Thank you in advance for your help.

[sudaevpps43 31]

Hi guys,

I have been lurking around here for a bit and have learned quite a bit from the various posts. I tried using the search function and did not come up with a fix for my problem.

 

It seems that my 13rd Surefire mags is placing the shells nose too high in the gun. It is hitting on the top feed ramp on the gun causing a jam. The way I see it I have two options. The first option might be to bevel the top feed ramp on gun to allow more room and smooth the transition for the incoming cartridge (markup in red line) The second is to cut the mag follower to a more acceptable angle.

 

I am using the #8 shot Estate brand Heavy game loads in 2 and 3/4. The picture shows a shell marked 3 1/2 but that is the dram equivalent.

 

Is this happening with just the Surefire magazine, or does it also happen with the Russian 5 round magazine that came with the shotgun? Are the shells getting hung up on the underside surface of the shell guide, or are they actually getting hung up behind the shell guide (i.e. the front of the shell hits the back of the shell guide)?

 

If its the latter then the simplest solution is to just switch to a different brand of 2-3/4 in. shells that are a little longer (if you line up next to eachother the unfired 2-3/4 shells from various manufacturers, you will see that some are actually a bit shorter or longer than others). This will solve the feeding problem because the longer shells just aren't short enough to be able to get caught behind the shell guide. If you want to get these particular Estate shells to feed reliably though, then you will have to adjust the follower angle, as beveling the back of the shell guide won't solve the fundamental problem of the shells being too short to feed properly at the current angle the Surefire magazine holds them. You can do this by filing the follower, or if the follower from your Russian 5 round magazine is compatible with the Surefire magazine, you can try swapping it in to see if it makes the Surefire mag hold the shell at a low enough angle that the shell can't hit the back of the shell guide when the bolt pushes it out of the magazine. If this works then I think you can buy Russian 5 round magazine followers from R.A.A.C., and then just use these to replace the followers in your Surefire mags.

[bloodline 0]

I have the same problem. Same ammo too. But, it has happened on other ammo too.

[freewilly 0]

My surefire does this with Federals, but only if I yank the trigger as fast as possible. (almost a bump fire). Otherwise with Federals, it works perfectly. My Saiga won't run at all with the Winchester crap, though, so it's not the mags fault.

[sudaevpps43 31]

I have the same problem. Same ammo too. But, it has happened on other ammo too.

 

It can happen with any 2-3/4" ammo that is short enough to be able to get behind the shell guide.

[sudaevpps43 31]

My surefire does this with Federals, but only if I yank the trigger as fast as possible. (almost a bump fire). Otherwise with Federals, it works perfectly. My Saiga won't run at all with the Winchester crap, though, so it's not the mags fault.

 

Yes I have heard this from other people too, where a certain type of ammo will feed fine unless they shoot very fast, and then misfeeds start occuring, but I don't know what causes that particular misfeed problem.

 

As far as the Winchester ammo, if you are talking about the Winchester Universal ammo then yes you will almost always have problems, as that ammo is notorious for having misfeeds in not just the Saiga 12, but even in pump guns like the Remington 870. Winchester Universal is made as cheaply as possible with very soft plastic, so the shell will bulge and deform easily. If read line 4 of the Saiga 12 tips page on the Tromix website ( http://www.tromix.com/saiga-servicetips.htm ), you will see Tromix states to not ever use Winchester Universal in a Saiga 12 because it will cause nothing but problems.

Edited March 19, 2009 by Frogfoot

[Got Glock 0]

Thanks for the responses guys. The shell is getting hung up behind the shell guide. Right, wrong or indifferent I beveled the front part of the shell guide to a 45 degree angle. I thought that melting this portion in would increase the likelyhood that the shell would go into the chamber (or spear the shell real good). I did not remove any overall length of the shell guide or change the angle at the tip of the guide where the nose of the shell would ordinarily hit, just made the 90 degree a 45 degree or so. I then polished the bevel and interior of the shell guide. I stepped outside and test fired a full mag and everything worked.

 

So in short maybe it was the right thing to do. Only time will tell. If it jacks up again I will post my screw up so nobody makes the same mistake.

[bloodline 0]

I noticed that with the surefire mag I was able to easily reach in the chamber with the bolt locked open and lift the front of the shell up in to the position shown in your photo. It was much more difficult to lift the shell to that position from the factory 5 round mags.

 

I also noticed that the natural position of the shell is slightly higher in the front on the surefire mag too.

 

the last time I shot the gun I put a box thru the 12 round mag and it worked fine until I shot from the hip and it did exactly exactly as your picture shows. Once.

 

?????