Is the Saiga .223 or 5.56?

[Flapjack 0]

Hey guys...Just had a quick question that I'm sure has been asked many times before..

 

Is the .223 Saigas chambered for the .223 as the name suggests, or 5.56??

[IndyArms 10,186]

They are chambered for the .223

 

HOWEVER... as most of us know the two cartridges are totally interchangeable, with only the chamber pressures , and the bore specs of some target grade shooter rifles differing. With the overbuilt aspects of the Saiga, I would feel confident using 5.56 Ammo in my Saiga.

 

Personally, I would use 5.56 in my Saiga with no worries.

 

[danny boy 0]

They are identical physically and my Saiga seems to like the Lake City M855 very much.

[LARRY326 0]

They are chambered for the .223

 

HOWEVER... as most of us know the two cartridges are totally interchangeable, with only the chamber pressures , and the bore specs of some target grade shooter rifles differing. With the overbuilt aspects of the Saiga, I would feel confident using 5.56 Ammo in my Saiga.

 

Personally, I would use 5.56 in my Saiga with no worries.

 

 

 

REALLY? I WANT TO BECAUSE I HAVE READ SOME GOOD STUFF ABOUT THE 5.56. BUT I HAVE ALSO READ SOME SCARY STUFF ON AR15.COM ABOUT WHAT WILL HAPPEN TO YOU AND OR YOUR GUN IF YOU USE 5.56 IN A GUN MARKED .223 REM.

[Sikat 0]

The difference is not in external case dimentions, the difference is in the leade. This is freebore portion of the bore directly before the chamber. Although, it should be noted that .223 chambers (not cartridge cases) in bolt-actions tend to be tighter than the chambers of semi-automatic rifles which are just every so slightly looser in order to facilitate reliable feeding.

 

 

Back to the leade...5.56 has a longer leade. This means the bullet "jumps" further before it engages rifling. On a .223 it is shorter. Shorter leades are useful in that they are more accurate. The reason being is, and any handloader can tell you - the shorter the path the bullet takes till it engages the rifling, the more uniformly the bullet will engage from shot to shot - thus building consistency, which equates to accuracy. Most benchrest guys seat their bullets a specific length so that the bullet is as close to the rifling as possible - nearly touching, or barely touching (so long as the cartridge can still chamber).

 

 

5.56 has a longer leade - that's the part of the bore that has no rifling grooves..this means the bullet moves a lot faster out of the case at the moment of ignition. This means it is further out with less resistance than it would be in a .223. That lowers or at least compensates a little bit for chamber pressures.

 

 

5.56 ammo is loaded much hotter than .223. The pressure is much higher in 5.56. How can this be dangerous? Let's say you put a 5.56 in a tight .223 chamber. It will have less room to expand thus raising pressures significantly. Let's also say that the rifle barrel is hot - really really hot, the shooter has been shooting very quickly and the barrel is too hot to touch. Then leaves a 5.56 in the chamber for a while before shooting it. Ammunition that has "cooked" in a hot chamber causes the pressure to increase even more. Note, it is already high pressure round, and the .223 rifle will have a very short leade. So it has little to no chance to get relief during the height of the pressure spike. Finally...factory ammo - especially military surplus 5.56, is not loaded consistently. Every once in a while - you get one that can be as many as 75fps faster.

 

 

This could...if a number of conditions are right - lead to a KABOOM.

 

 

That's why it isn't recommended to shoot 5.56 ammo in a .223. I doubt an auto-loader like a Saiga will be dangerous.

 

 

There's good ways to determine whether or not you are pushing the envelope. You should inspect the cases ejected from your Saiga. Look for signs of over-pressure. #1 place to look is the primer. Does it look flattened? The dimple made by the firing pin in the primer...is it cratered? That means that the primer dent has a ridge around it, rather than being flush. For more information, search the web and various gun forums which have photos depicting the difference between normal brass and brass/primers that are showing over-pressure signs.

[AKMIKEFMJ 0]

I fired 8 rounds of Radway Green 5.56 X 45 SS109 through my new Saiga this weekend and no Kabooms !!! I guess it is safe..............

[Ronswin 26]

The same argument exists with 7.62 nato and .308 win. We can lecture over the engineering of the cartridges and firearm construction till peace occurs in the mid-east. The facts are that shooters over the decades have safely fired .223/5.56 and 7.62/.308 in modern firearms with little risk to health. Surplus ammo and questionable handloads cause more "Kabooms" perhaps than accepted cartridge interchangeability.

Still not convinced? When was the last time you were on a range and heard or witnessed an AR-15 or M1A self-destruct due to 5.56 in .223 or 7.62 in .308 win. Yup, me neither. And with the abundance of these firearms and ammo combinations you should see "kaboom" more often if interchangeability was dangerous.

Edited August 29, 2006 by Ronswin