Can I use a POSP 6x24 on a 5.45

[tStreets 1]

I am currently looking into a POPS 6x24b scope to mount on my 5.45, but I wanted to know if its even worth it considering the scope was designed for 7.62 play (I think?). My main concern is that I will have the scope zeroed in at 100m and then the range adjustments will no correspond correctly because of the 5.45 straight shooting trajectory.

 

Any thoughts?

[CPF 80]

Its fine. Just learn how your gun works with the markings and zero it well and you'll be fine. The rangefinder will work, but the secondary reticules for longer ranges probably won't correspond to their proper ranges.

[beefcakeb99 572]

It might make it seem less of a ghost town if you posted this in the right place

[psl sniper 963]

i use a 4x pls scope on my 7.63x39 ak th scope is set up for 54r but works fine for the ak rnd, like somone said just get to know where you need to set it for different ranges.

[tStreets 1]

Thank the lawd that 5.45 is cheap! What post then would be specifically designed for a 74?...

 

@beefcake... Suck it!

Edited July 17, 2011 by WhoDat504

[TX-Zen 287]

What post then would be specifically designed for a 74?...

 

 

Maybe you need to spend more time in the optics forum, it might not be as much of a ghost town as you think

 

http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?/topic/68054-1p78-kashtan-28x-optic-review/

 

 

Z

Edited July 17, 2011 by TX-Zen

[tStreets 1]

What post then would be specifically designed for a 74?...

 

 

Maybe you need to spend more time in the optics forum, it might not be as much of a ghost town as you think

 

http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?/topic/68054-1p78-kashtan-28x-optic-review/

 

 

Z

 

Z you can correct me anytime... Respect through the roof!

 

BTW that post might draw me more to the optics (your section and expertise) section. +1 and a beer!

[psl sniper 963]

What post then would be specifically designed for a 74?...

 

 

Maybe you need to spend more time in the optics forum, it might not be as much of a ghost town as you think

 

http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?/topic/68054-1p78-kashtan-28x-optic-review/

 

 

Z

yeah i know ive left some info there.

[rifleshooter474 2]

I am currently looking into a POPS 6x24b scope to mount on my 5.45, but I wanted to know if its even worth it considering the scope was designed for 7.62 play (I think?). My main concern is that I will have the scope zeroed in at 100m and then the range adjustments will no correspond correctly because of the 5.45 straight shooting trajectory.

 

Any thoughts?

 

I installed a 4-24 POSP on both my SGL-21 7.69x39 and my SGL-31 5.45x39 both shot great groups and I am very happy with the 4-24.

[tStreets 1]

I am currently looking into a POPS 6x24b scope to mount on my 5.45, but I wanted to know if its even worth it considering the scope was designed for 7.62 play (I think?). My main concern is that I will have the scope zeroed in at 100m and then the range adjustments will no correspond correctly because of the 5.45 straight shooting trajectory.

 

Any thoughts?

 

I installed a 4-24 POSP on both my SGL-21 7.69x39 and my SGL-31 5.45x39 both shot great groups and I am very happy with the 4-24.

 

What's the furthest you used one on a 5.45? I mean I would like to get a Kashtan, but when the optic costs more than the rifle, I find it a hard investment to partake in.

[rifleshooter474 2]

I am currently looking into a POPS 6x24b scope to mount on my 5.45, but I wanted to know if its even worth it considering the scope was designed for 7.62 play (I think?). My main concern is that I will have the scope zeroed in at 100m and then the range adjustments will no correspond correctly because of the 5.45 straight shooting trajectory.

 

Any thoughts?

 

I installed a 4-24 POSP on both my SGL-21 7.69x39 and my SGL-31 5.45x39 both shot great groups and I am very happy with the 4-24.

 

What's the furthest you used one on a 5.45? I mean I would like to get a Kashtan, but when the optic costs more than the rifle, I find it a hard investment to partake in.

 

The Russians used the POSP-4-24 with good results I can say it is a very good scope priced at under $200US I can sure understand someone questioning putting higher the the cost of the rifle optics on them. I have a AIMPOINT M4 on one AK-SGL-21 and a EOTech 553 on a AMD-65. But for under $200US you just can't beat the Posp 4-24 if you are shooting over 50 yards.

Edited July 17, 2011 by rifleshooter474

[psl sniper 963]

I am currently looking into a POPS 6x24b scope to mount on my 5.45, but I wanted to know if its even worth it considering the scope was designed for 7.62 play (I think?). My main concern is that I will have the scope zeroed in at 100m and then the range adjustments will no correspond correctly because of the 5.45 straight shooting trajectory.

 

Any thoughts?

 

I installed a 4-24 POSP on both my SGL-21 7.69x39 and my SGL-31 5.45x39 both shot great groups and I am very happy with the 4-24.

 

What's the furthest you used one on a 5.45? I mean I would like to get a Kashtan, but when the optic costs more than the rifle, I find it a hard investment to partake in.

look into getting a romanian one from a psl. they go anywhere from 50.00 to 125.00 they are tough scopes that hold zero very well.

i scored one for $64.00 think i mentioned it one of the sections here..... hmmmmm

Edited July 17, 2011 by psl sniper

[rifleshooter474 2]

I am currently looking into a POPS 6x24b scope to mount on my 5.45, but I wanted to know if its even worth it considering the scope was designed for 7.62 play (I think?). My main concern is that I will have the scope zeroed in at 100m and then the range adjustments will no correspond correctly because of the 5.45 straight shooting trajectory.

 

Any thoughts?

 

I installed a 4-24 POSP on both my SGL-21 7.69x39 and my SGL-31 5.45x39 both shot great groups and I am very happy with the 4-24.

 

What's the furthest you used one on a 5.45? I mean I would like to get a Kashtan, but when the optic costs more than the rifle, I find it a hard investment to partake in.

look into getting a romanian one from a psl. they go anywhere from 50.00 to 125.00 they are tough scopes that hold zero very well.

i scored one for $64.00 think i mentioned it one of the sections here..... hmmmmm

 

I sure would like a link to that scope.

[psl sniper 963]

sure. http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?/topic/68697-just-scored-a-nice-romanian-scope-off-ebay/ dont know what good itll do you as i already got it.

Edited July 18, 2011 by psl sniper

[psl sniper 963]

well apparently he has more heres the new one

http://cgi.ebay.com/ROMANIAN-PSO-SCOPE-POUCH-SUN-LENS-INSTRUCTIONS-/280710788749?_trksid=p4340.m263&_trkparms=algo%3DSIC%26its%3DI%252BC%26itu%3DUCI%252BIA%252BUA%252BFICS%252BUFI%26otn%3D5%26pmod%3D280704866496%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D1420083476588510821

[CPF 80]

I thought you can't use a PSO on a Saiga...wrong mount if I'm correct. Doesn't the PSO have an SVD mount and the Saiga have the AK mount?

[TX-Zen 287]

The mount can can be changed between SVD and AK clamps. The POSP's that we usually talk about are the versions with AK mounts.

 

 

 

Z

[psl sniper 963]

you can also use the svd mount (i do) it just sits lower on the rifle, which for me is a good thing. does not interfere with dissasembly.

[tStreets 1]

you can also use the svd mount (i do) it just sits lower on the rifle, which for me is a good thing. does not interfere with dissasembly.

 

I did not know that an SVD could fit on a Saiga... Son of a bitch. I found a cheap russian POSP at the gun show a month back ($60) and the guy told me it would not fit an AK and I believed him.

[psl sniper 963]

you can also use the svd mount (i do) it just sits lower on the rifle, which for me is a good thing. does not interfere with dissasembly.

 

I did not know that an SVD could fit on a Saiga... Son of a bitch. I found a cheap russian POSP at the gun show a month back ($60) and the guy told me it would not fit an AK and I believed him.

yep check this out. its my saiga 7.62x39 made to look like a tabuk...and whats that on the side? go down a few pics and you will see a close up.

http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?/topic/68310-tabuk-clone-reborn/

Edited July 18, 2011 by psl sniper

[TX-Zen 287]

Actually the PSO doesn't fit an AK rail. There's a reason why they make the AK mount version, if it were universal they wouldn't need to split them into AK and SVD mounts. Think about it.

 

 

 

The reason they don't fit is because the PSO has a center guide/pin that slides down the center groove of the rail. AK rails don't typically have this center groove, so the PSO and the LPS won't mount properly.

 

 

The Tabuk uses an SVD style rail that also has the center groove cut out and that's why a PSO will fit, and why the LPS does too. But if a PSO or LPS fits a typical AK rail it's because the center guide/pin has been ground off or removed from the scope somehow.

 

 

Here's an example of the Tabuk rail

 

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_7k9dVrKCNRI/ScBxTmYDfBI/AAAAAAAAAKg/7r2dW3fBqoE/s1600-h/scope+rail.jpg

 

 

 

 

And the SVD rail

 

 

 

Common AK74 pattern rails (AK74M on top and early 80's pattern on the bottom). There are many variants but they are functionally very similar, I'm not aware of any that have the center groove like the SVD though. Could be just haven't seen any that I recall.

 

 

 

 

 

What this means is that the PSO's and POSP's actually don't fit AK rails in practice. They fit rifles like the PSL and Tabuk because even though those are AK pattern rifles, the rails are actually SVD pattern with the groove down the middle.

 

 

 

 

I did not know that an SVD could fit on a Saiga... Son of a bitch. I found a cheap russian POSP at the gun show a month back ($60) and the guy told me it would not fit an AK and I believed him.

 

 

Actually you could just buy an AK mount base and swap them. Kalinka has them for about $30 bucks plus shipping. It's not too hard to change them over but it can sometimes require a bit of fitting due to the difference tolerances in nationality of scopes and rails etc.

 

Here's my LPS with AK mount

 

 

 

 

 

 

Z

Edited July 19, 2011 by TX-Zen

[psl sniper 963]

Actually the PSO doesn't fit an AK rail. There's a reason why they make the AK mount version, if it were universal they wouldn't need to split them into AK and SVD mounts. Think about it.

 

 

 

The reason they don't fit is because the PSO has a center guide/pin that slides down the center groove of the rail. AK rails don't typically have this center groove, so the PSO and the LPS won't mount properly.

 

 

The Tabuk uses an SVD style rail that also has the center groove cut out and that's why a PSO will fit, and why the LPS does too. But if a PSO or LPS fits a typical AK rail it's because the center guide/pin has been ground off or removed from the scope somehow.

 

 

Here's an example of the Tabuk rail

 

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_7k9dVrKCNRI/ScBxTmYDfBI/AAAAAAAAAKg/7r2dW3fBqoE/s1600-h/scope+rail.jpg

 

 

 

 

And the SVD rail

 

 

 

Common AK74 pattern rails (AK74M on top and early 80's pattern on the bottom). There are many variants but they are functionally very similar, I'm not aware of any that have the center groove like the SVD though. Could be just haven't seen any that I recall.

 

 

 

 

 

What this means is that the PSO's and POSP's actually don't fit AK rails in practice. They fit rifles like the PSL and Tabuk because even though those are AK pattern rifles, the rails are actually SVD pattern with the groove down the middle.

 

 

 

 

I did not know that an SVD could fit on a Saiga... Son of a bitch. I found a cheap russian POSP at the gun show a month back ($60) and the guy told me it would not fit an AK and I believed him.

 

 

Actually you could just buy an AK mount base and swap them. Kalinka has them for about $30 bucks plus shipping. It's not too hard to change them over but it can sometimes require a bit of fitting due to the difference tolerances in nationality of scopes and rails etc.

 

Here's my LPS with AK mount

 

 

 

 

 

 

Z

ummm no offense but did you even actually look at my tabuk set up? its not an actual tabuk, its just a long barreled saiga 7.62x39. uses your standerd run of the mill ak rail.

 

if it doesnt work than how is mine attached?

 

it does not need the groove. just flip up your rear site, slide the scope on from front to back and clamp down.

 

they make the 2 different styles of mounts because they sit at different points on the reciever, the ak rail sits low while the svd sit about the middle. now there may be some optics and rail mounts out there that will sit too low. but the posp isnt one. they work fine. so yes in practice it does work. no need for removal for dissasembly either. the dust cover has plenty of room to clear

 

like i stated earlier it will sit slightly lower on an ak rail than an svd rail.

 

trust me on this i have a psl (duh) a siaga 7.62x39 and a saiga .308. have 2 romanian scopes and one russian scope. i use the svd mount on all three for all three rifles. the psl scope sits just a little higher than on the saigas.

 

again check out my tabuk "lookalike" thats a standerd romanian scope on a standerd ak rail.

[psl sniper 963]

heres a pic of my set up.

Edited July 19, 2011 by psl sniper

[TX-Zen 287]

if it doesnt work than how is mine attached?

 

it does not need the groove. just flip up your rear site, slide the scope on from front to back and clamp down.

 

 

 

Actually it does need the groove. They aren't designed to slide on from the front and doing it that way is incorrect whether it fits or not. The reason is because the center guide/pin is what stops the scope from moving forward under recoil. When you slide on from the front the center guide is in front of the rail and then the only thing that stops it from sliding forward is clamp tension.

 

It might seem like it works if you slide it on by hand, but during shooting it will either fall off or you will have problems returning to zero at some point. You might be getting lucky with the PSO, but it's more likely that you aren't shooting it alot or I think you would have probably come to this conclusion. A long time ago I wasn't lucky and my PSO's had problems that were pretty frustrating, so I took the time to figure out why. After researching the issue I realized it was because I wasn't mounting the optic correctly...SVD mounts don't go on from the front. That center guide pin isn't there by accident, it is part of the system that allows the scope to be removed and put back on while keeping zero.

 

 

Since other people are reading this I think it's a better idea to get the facts straight.

 

 

 

Z

[psl sniper 963]

if it doesnt work than how is mine attached?

 

it does not need the groove. just flip up your rear site, slide the scope on from front to back and clamp down.

 

 

 

Actually it does need the groove. They aren't designed to slide on from the front and doing it that way is incorrect whether it fits or not. The reason is because the center guide/pin is what stops the scope from moving forward under recoil. When you slide on from the front the center guide is in front of the rail and then the only thing that stops it from sliding forward is clamp tension.

 

It might seem like it works if you slide it on by hand, but during shooting it will either fall off or you will have problems returning to zero at some point. You might be getting lucky with the PSO, but it's more likely that you aren't shooting it alot or I think you would have probably come to this conclusion. A long time ago I wasn't lucky and my PSO's had problems that were pretty frustrating, so I took the time to figure out why. After researching the issue I realized it was because I wasn't mounting the optic correctly...SVD mounts don't go on from the front. That center guide pin isn't there by accident, it is part of the system that allows the scope to be removed and put back on while keeping zero.

 

 

Since other people are reading this I think it's a better idea to get the facts straight.

 

 

 

Z

 

 

well by the same reasoning the ak mount would be useless as well as it does not have a center post. the ak mount relies on a raised section at the back. and how do you know about my shooting habbits? ive used this scope exclusively on this saiga from day one. ive put i a few thousand rounds down range, (7.62x39 is cheap). ive NEVER had the scope move. its never lost zero. even when i was doing work recently and took the scope off. put it back on and was still hitting where i left it.

 

 

so lets get the facts straight as you say.

i can see the the need for svd type mnt and rail in the higher recoil rnds. the 7.62x54r has much higher recoil than a x39. so that is why those rifles have the center rail setup. on a 5.45 or x39? no. maybe if you dont tighten the clamp properly.

 

now my .308 is still being worked on, as such i have not shot it is much. it may be possible that it will loosen up, with repeated shooting. well have to wait and see.

 

but in "practice" as in ive actually done this and still do this. it will work.

[TX-Zen 287]

This discussion came up a few months ago on theakforum.net, this was Doug Ford's response. If you're not familiar with him check out his site at http://tantal.kalashnikov.guns.ru/optics1.html

 

 

All of these side-mounting scopes (of all types on all rifles) slide on at the back of the rail and go forward until they contact metal and stop. All stop pins, stop lips and stop rivets must contact at their foward edge with rail base metal to keep them from walking FORWARD upon recoil.

 

No SVD optics slide on the rail from the front of the rail to the back.

 

 

Both the SVD and the PSL will physically allow you to mount the scope that way, but it's not how they were supposed to be used and circumvents the bulletproof zero retension built into the design. I'm glad you had success with it, but most people eventually found that no matter how tight they set the lever tension or how much force they put into locking the lever down, it would slowly move forward just enough to mess up zero (since the rails are almost always slightly canted from the bore axis) and eventually, in the extreme, allow the scope to fall off the rifle.

 

However, with the stop pin ahead of the stop lip on the rail, even after tightening the clamp to the extreme (and in one case I remember a customer cracked his clamp frame), the scope still tried to walk on the rail.

 

The forward stop pin position ensures your scope is in the exact same place each time you mount it, even under the harshest recoil, even after years of service and thousands of rounds, even with a slightly worn or loose clamp lever. The stop pin on the siderail clamps does the same job as a "stop bar" on a weaver or Picatinney rail mount, it keeps the sight from walking forward in the rail and ensures the sight is always in the same location on the rail. People have tried in he past to mount them where the stop pin was ahead of the stop lip on the rail, but that just never worked out.

 

 

 

 

 

Again I'm saying that I think the best idea is to get the facts straight on how these optics really work. I spend a lot of time with Russian optics to try and understand them, I don't make things up to prove I'm right on an Internet forum. I've also collected a number of optics so that I could get first hand experience with them, again because I'd rather be putting out correct information and helping other enthusiasts get the most out of them. If your PSO works for you that's great but that doesn't mean it will work for others, therefore I think it's wise to point out that it may not be mounted correctly.

 

In this case I am comfortable with someone like Tantal posting his experience and educating me, it matches up with what I have seen first hand as well. I doubt I'll ever know as much as he does about optics but I try and help things along where I can, this is a case where I think that certain things need to be clarified.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Z

Edited July 19, 2011 by TX-Zen

[psl sniper 963]

no disrepect was intended whatsoever. while i do concede its not the "optimum" mounting option, it has and does work for myself. so when i said it can be done, i was in no way falsifying information. when you stated it would not work, i didnt believe you where using all the facts. as i have been using mine for the last 2 years or so with this setup.

 

 

i have however come up with a very ideal solution. because of the information you posted, i started thinking

"what about my .308?" it works for the x39 but the 308 has more recoil. i like how low the scope sits so im not going to swith the mount. the solution? fix the rail. took all of 5 min to make a slot for the psop scope to slide in properly as you described. i did this before work this morning so i dont have a pic yet. i will post them tonight when i get off. ill post a full tutorial in the optics section with pics tonight.

 

see what "constructive" arguing can do? instead of us getting ugly we both presented valid points which led to a contructive outcome.