Magazine catch filing

[DiminishTX 1]

So I'm here once again in the tech section, screwing up my conversion. I need some advice. I have installed the bullet guide, I ground down the magazine catch on my receiver to accept standard ak mags.

 

Here is where my problem arises, I ground it down at a parallel angle to the receiver not knowing what I was doing. So my mag catches it, but the angle of my magazine catch is not at all with the angle of the magazine. It only catches at one point on the magazine and thus, I have some wobble.

 

I really learned the hard way, but I was thinking that you should rather grind down at an angle that aligns with the magazine correct? This being roughly about 40 degrees with the receiver, that way the magazine catches at just more than one point.

 

It's not too hard to change out the magazine catch right? just drill the rivets and disassemble?

 

EDIT: I guess I should clarify, its a saiga 7.62x39

Edited March 13, 2012 by DiminishTX

[D.C.MORRISON 494]

not that hard to dissemble. a bit tougher to re-assemble. i have replaced my s-12 and Egyptian AK releases with extended /ambi ones.

if you want a replacement standard release. CSS has them. not sure if my stock maadi one would fit a saiga.

[DiminishTX 1]

I ended up buying this ( https://www.apexgunparts.com/product_info.php/cPath/107/products_id/1953 ) I'd think it'd fit fine on my Saiga. Can someone confirm with me, whether the catch needs to be filed at an angle proportional to the angle of the catch on the magazine itself.

[TJohn 8]

I just used a dremel with a tungsten carbide bit and held it at a 90 degree angle to the the mag catch. I would take a little off, then check with a couple or three different mags. You know your close when you hear the click when the mag snaps in. If the mag catch is hard to push to remove a mag, despite clicking when the mag was inserted, I would take a slight bit more off, and all was good. I compared the space between the mag catch and the receiver on my 7.62 Saiga to my Arsenal 7.62, and the Arsenal allows a little more play with the mags as the catch is slightly shorter where it engages the mag. I also just watched the angle of the mag catch itself when the mags were inserted. Don't know if that helps you any, but that was my experience.

[Agent Lemon 157]

The first time that I did mine, I filed some off. But then I decided that I didnt like the 1mm of play that seemed out of the ordinary, so I got some other mag releases. I have got the RAM tactical and an east german one. CSS sells the RAM tactical I think, and I think that they sell the rivet/screw/whatever to fit it. If not, check RAM tacticals website, as they have it for sure. K-var sells mag releases too, and the one that you have bought should fit as well, as all AK mag releases are the same I do believe. Also keep in mind that in my opinion and experience, the extended mag releases are more difficult to install.

 

Before you start, its good to take a good note of which end of the spring goes where, unless you have an extra AK to look at after you disassemble. Basically, you drill the rivets shoulder of the the mag release off, like you did when you converted the FCG. Then you put the new one in and rivet it in place.

 

As others have stated, taking it apart is ez-pz, but putting it back can be very fun, as it would be easier with 3 hands.

 

The RAM tactical comes with (and they sell these as extras, too, for like 3 dollars) a rivet, a ball bearing, a little metal rod, a bendy washer of sorts (not sure about name), and a screw that looks like like the rivet, but has a threaded portion for a second part to screw into.

 

What I do is first put the spring into the catch the way that its supposed to go in. Then, I put the small section of metal rod in (it is just the right length/diameter to fit in there perfectly without sticking out in either direction), and put a tiny bit of tape on one side of the mag catch to keep the rod from falling out. Then, I start putting the stuff into the receiver by bending the spring that resists against the receiver part. Then, I align the metal rod in the middle, and press the rivet in there, which knocks out the rod. Then, I use a small c-clamp (with a cup-like thingie on the end of the screw that screws in and out to tighten the clamp) to crush the rivet. Simply put the ball bearing into the cup shaped part of the clamp, then put the whole thing against the un-crushed rivet head so that the other side is touching the existing rivet head. Then tighten to form rivet head. Mine usually only do like half the rivet with the c-clamp, and I finish the rest with a hammer/ punch. The screw version is the same, minus having to form the rivet.

 

Some useful things to have while doing this would be some various sized punches and pliers. I use a punch that fits right into the undone rivet head, which helps to move it into place so that I can rivet it. Plies can aid in aligning the rivet once its in. Sometimes it helps to put a punch against the undone rivet head so that its like one long rod, and push it all the way through to stop it from mis-aligning.

 

This can be difficult to do since its all under spring pressure, and since the parts involved are so small. It would be handy to have a friend or two to help hold everything while somebody else does the guiding.

 

The most difficult pats is to align everything to be able to push the rivet all the way through.

 

Happy tinkering.

Edited March 15, 2012 by Agent Lemon

[DiminishTX 1]

Thanks for all the info Agent Lemon. Yea, i bought a standard ak magazine catch/spring/rivet pin. I'm still fairly confused as to how I will "rivet" it into place. The C-clamp idea makes sense, but I'm still confused what you meant. Would you put the flat part of the c-clamp directly onto the rivet and thus crushing it, or would you rig up the c-clamp so that it's actually fitting down into the "cone" part of the rivet (the way the standard ak/saiga rivet pins have that inner bevel) and crushing it outwards.

 

I only ordered 3 parts. A new spring(although I probably could have used the old), a new rivet (that looks exactly like the stock saiga pin), and a new catch. What size ball bearing would you recommend?

[Agent Lemon 157]

There are many ways of forming a rivet head. You could crush them with a hammer, squeeze them with a vice, with a shop press, etc. etc.

 

I was talking specifically about the rivet kit that you can buy from RAM tactical. It is a rivet made of copper or some other copper colored metal that is easy to form by hand. I don't know if this method will work with other rivets that are made of more tough material. It is what I went to before I had any tools to form other rivets. You won't need anything more than a c-clamp and the rivet kit/ a copper rivet.

 

Basically you put the rivet into the mag catch until everything is in and works properly, but with one end of the rivet not crushed. Then you put a small c-clamp over the whole thing, so that the head of the rivet touches one side of the clamping surface. Then, put the ball bearing (RAM provides a 1/4 inch with their 3 dollar kit) onto the hollow portion of the other, un-crushed rivet end. Touch the second clamping surface to the ball bearing. Then when you tighten the clamp, the round shape of the ball with bend the hollow part of the rivet outwards, giving it a nice shoulder, stopping it from coming out.

 

I can't post a direct link to the rivet kit, but heres some pictures of how to do it.

 

http://i.imgur.com/uArVh.jpg

 

http://i.imgur.com/v8s5j.jpg

Edited March 21, 2012 by Agent Lemon

[DiminishTX 1]

So I just ruined my 2nd magazine catch...I'm just not filing it right.

 

On my 2nd attempt. The angle was just a tad off, so it still only sticks good at 1 point. How do I file it, for it to catch on the incline of the magazine catch on the mag itself. What I have been getting, is a full snap back to base of the mag catch on the magazine and its loose on my 2nd attempt. I had it to a point where it caught on the incline if I forced it, and it was a very solid catch. It did not wobble and is what I am trying to get...

 

Is there a preferrred method to file it down? at a certain angle or using a certain technique?

[TJohn 8]

I just tried to keep the same profile that the catch had before I began dremeling/filing. Keep trying a mag or two or three every so often to check their fit and function, it helps reduce the risk of removing too much material. Not every mag is going to fit tight with no wobble, as there are variances between mags from the some manufacturer and country of origin and many mags will work just fine with some wobble. If it is a 7.62x39 use a steel or polymer surplus mag for the fitting, because if you use a US made mag you may very well make the fit too loose for your liking if you switch to surplus mags later. You really shouldn't have to remove more than 1/32 to 1/16 of an inch from the mag catch, at most.

Edited March 24, 2012 by TJohn

[DiminishTX 1]

I just tried to keep the same profile that the catch had before I began dremeling/filing. Keep trying a mag or two or three every so often to check their fit and function, it helps reduce the risk of removing too much material. Not every mag is going to fit tight with no wobble, as there are variances between mags from the some manufacturer and country of origin and many mags will work just fine with some wobble. If it is a 7.62x39 use a steel or polymer surplus mag for the fitting, because if you use a US made mag you may very well make the fit too loose for your liking if you switch to surplus mags later. You really shouldn't have to remove more than 1/32 to 1/16 of an inch from the mag catch, at most.

 

I tried as well to keep the same angle...I think somewhere along the way I went wrong.

[TJohn 8]

DiminishTX, how much wobble do the mags have? Is it front to back wobble, or side to side? I dont think the side to side wobble is as crucial an issue as the wobble from front to back as that changes the feed angle of the ammo. A little wobble won't hurt anything, these rifles are designed to have looser tolerances, if the mag still functions, in fact I think it may be fairly common. I don't think there is any way to file the mag catch to keep every mag from wobbling at all, too much variance between different manufacturers and even between magazines from the same manufacturers. Mags lock up tighter in my converted Saiga 7.62 than they do in my Arsenal 7.62, but I have mags that will wobble in both and still function just fine. The mags aren't going to lock up like an AR or Mini 14 for that matter.

[DiminishTX 1]

DiminishTX, how much wobble do the mags have? Is it front to back wobble, or side to side? I dont think the side to side wobble is as crucial an issue as the wobble from front to back as that changes the feed angle of the ammo. A little wobble won't hurt anything, these rifles are designed to have looser tolerances, if the mag still functions, in fact I think it may be fairly common. I don't think there is any way to file the mag catch to keep every mag from wobbling at all, too much variance between different manufacturers and even between magazines from the same manufacturers. Mags lock up tighter in my converted Saiga 7.62 than they do in my Arsenal 7.62, but I have mags that will wobble in both and still function just fine. The mags aren't going to lock up like an AR or Mini 14 for that matter.

 

It is a side to side wobble, there is no front to back wobble.

 

I understand that my gun is cycling fine with this wobble, but it's just kind of urking me that everything fits so tight and snug, then I have this wobbly mag attached to an otherwise "in tact" rifle. I'm just being an ignorant perfectionist at this point.

 

I was thinking if I filed the catch at such an angle, that you can have the tension of the mag catch spring working for you(as in, the mag catch putting pressure on the lower incline of the magazine), you can have a tight fitting catch with minimal wobble.

[Agent Lemon 157]

This is exactly why I choose to simply replace the whole thing together. Or, at the very least, take the thing out of the gun and then file it that way, since its easier to make sure that all is even this way.

 

When I filed my first one I was not satisfied with the slight wobble, and also filed some of the surrounding finish off since I'm sloppy like that.

 

ALSO: how did you 'ruin' the second one? I thought that it was an AK mag catch? Those are supposed to fit without any filing needed.

[DiminishTX 1]

This is exactly why I choose to simply replace the whole thing together. Or, at the very least, take the thing out of the gun and then file it that way, since its easier to make sure that all is even this way.

 

When I filed my first one I was not satisfied with the slight wobble, and also filed some of the surrounding finish off since I'm sloppy like that.

 

ALSO: how did you 'ruin' the second one? I thought that it was an AK mag catch? Those are supposed to fit without any filing needed.

 

I installed the ak mag, and it needed filing. It was not catching whatsoever. the filing was minimal, but it still needed to be done. I was expecting it to work right out of the box as well, but this was not the case.

 

edit: The only reason I say I ruined it, is because it's not catching the way I'd like it to. e.g. not snug with some side wobble. If this 3rd one doesn't work like I'm expecting it to, I'll just live with the wobble and have to deal.

Edited March 29, 2012 by DiminishTX