dubya 198 Posted February 15, 2013 Report Share Posted February 15, 2013 Im going to be picking up my first S12 here in the next week or two once funds are available and have been looking at pics to get an idea of what i want. Ive seen a few with a shorter barrels and they look really good, what's the legal minimum for shotgun barrel length? And from wuat i understand, if the minimum is 16", for example, i could cut the barrel to 14.5" and permanently attach (weld) on a 1.5" brake/FH? And would shortening up the barrel affect reliability at all? I know these can be finicky and ive never had to play with gas settings on any of the semi auto guns I've owned so I'm starting from square one pretty much. I have AR's, 2 S762's, Browning BAR for semi autos so im not completely in the dark but shotguns are new to me for the most part. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
brickfield mfg 86 Posted February 15, 2013 Report Share Posted February 15, 2013 Minimum length for a shotgun barrel (without registering it as a SBS - or "short barrel shotgun" - with the ATF) is 18". If you are only cutting 1 1/2" or 2" off, and permanently attaching a muzzle device, it should not affect anything. This is assuming that your gun is functioning well BEFORE the barrel mod! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dubya 198 Posted February 15, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 15, 2013 Right, i think i will eventually cut it down and weld a FH to it but that's next winter probably. I've thought about getting a stamp to build an SBR but with firearms under the scope currently im not sure if it'd be worth trying to get the stamp. Anyway, when i get this thing home im guessing the best thing is to leave it stock and shoot a few different loads from 8 shot, buckshot,slugs to check function and go from there? Or would it be okay to convert it then deal with reliability? Ive seen thing's like Saiga reliability kits for sale, is there a certain one that's better or worse? I have feeling I'm just going to have to get it and figure it out somewhat on my own since my two Saiga 7.62 rifles and my buddy's 7.62 are all different! Obviously they're the same model and what not but my first one is a 2003 model and my new one is a 2009 model and I starting to realize that not all Saigas are the same. Issues you have may not be present in my S12 or vice versa. Any pointers are well received Dubya One more for now.. what mags should i look for and which to stay away from? Im going to start buying some now so i have a few when i get the S12. Thanks again! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
true.believer 10 Posted February 15, 2013 Report Share Posted February 15, 2013 Here is a link to an article on the ATF website that summarize/describes firearms included in NFA registration. http://www.atf.gov/publications/download/p/atf-p-5320-8/atf-p-5320-8-chapter-2.pdf In short for a shotgun, if the barrel (including any permanently attached muzzle device, which is qualified in the above article) is under 18" in length or if the overall shotgun is less than 26" (i.e. back of receiver to front of the barrel), then it is subject to NFA registration. With respect to the Saiga shotguns, there are some issues with how much gas is passed through the gas ports back to the bolt cycling action when you shorten the barrel (the pressure gradient is affected, so some changes to the gas port size and/or possible the piston are needed)...I won't even pretend to know any of the detail of how to tune this, but there are some exceptionally knowledgeable and skilled people in the business community that have "perfected" this (Tony at Tromix and Jack at JT Engineering come to mind, but there are several others). If you do want to shorten the barrel any from the factory configuration (I think that the standard barrel lengths coming from the factory are either 19" or 24"), I would recommend using one of these business members to do the work so that you get the best results. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HighPlainsDrifter 466 Posted February 15, 2013 Report Share Posted February 15, 2013 (edited) Living in Minnesota you may want to reconsider attaching a permanent flash hider or door breacher. In doing so you will limit the versatility of your firearm. Personally I want the ability to swap out muzzle attachments. In a "shit-hits-the-fan" scenario I want to be able to use the firearm for home defense or add chokes to hunt waterfowl or take them out and hunt moose with slugs. I am actually from North Dakota. Even the thought of going pheasant hunting while visiting the relatives is appealing. For me versatility trumps all other needs. edited: To answer the question about which magazines to purchase? Well, I suggest anything of high capacity. I bought SGM magazines because they have a reputation for great product and equal in customer service. Don't get me wrong, you might want some of those Russian 5 rounders as well but they should be on the market well after any high capacity magazine ban goes into effect. Right now nobody knows what's going to happen on the Political side of things. Prepare for the UNKNOWN... Edited February 15, 2013 by HighPlainsDrifter Quote Link to post Share on other sites
brickfield mfg 86 Posted February 15, 2013 Report Share Posted February 15, 2013 One more for now.. what mags should i look for and which to stay away from? Im going to start buying some now so i have a few when i get the S12. Thanks again! I have a bunch of these... http://www.keepshooting.com/saiga-12-gauge-5rd-magazine.html They have never failed me yet, and are inexpensive!!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dubya 198 Posted February 15, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 15, 2013 HPD, you're probably right. I do want as short a barrel as i can easily (and cheaply) have but saving 1.5" isn't all the big of a deal. Like you said, i also wouldn't mind bringing my S12 out for pheasants or grouse since i sold my Benelli this will be the only shotgun i own. Ducks are another story, i believe we have a 3 shell max capacity while duck hunting so id either need to find a 3 round mag or alter a 5 rounder and put a block in it which wouldn't be hard I'm just not sure if it would be legal to block (DNR are pretty thick up here!). TB, thanks for the insight. Ill have to look into reliability vs barrel length more in depth. I definitely know i don't want the 24" model and could live with 17"-18" + 1"-2" flash hider /brake. Something down the road though, I think my main concern will be making the gun cycle everything reliably which will be a project in itself after reading a few threads. If Benelli's weren't so expensive and had as many aftermarket parts as a S12 does id already have one but 75% of the joy of owning a Saiga is being able to convert/build it yourself however you want. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
M49907 3 Posted February 16, 2013 Report Share Posted February 16, 2013 3 round magazines are sold on several sites I just dont know if there are any in stock right now. Check the e-store out. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KTM 72 Posted February 16, 2013 Report Share Posted February 16, 2013 I cut my barrel down a hair over 18'' including the RJF door breach. Never caused any reliability issues. SGM mags are good and CSS has them in stock right now, but probably not for long. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HighPlainsDrifter 466 Posted February 16, 2013 Report Share Posted February 16, 2013 SGM mags are good and CSS has them in stock right now, but probably not for long. I have noticed they are becoming more available around the web. I don't believe the panic buying is over. It's logical to think the buying will pick up again when Congress begins to vote on the proposed gun control bills. More or less I feel we are in the eye of the storm. This is a golden opportunity for you guys that don't have the ideal number of high capacity magazines. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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