[USMC_LB]

PLEASE READ EVERYTHING BEFORE YOU DRILL & CUT YOUR SAIGA ! ! !
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----

If you have something to add please send me a Personal Message (PM)
or email me at USMC_LB@hotmail.com and I will update this page.

IF YOU SEE SOMETHING THAT IS INCORRECT OR COULD BE
WORDED DIFFERENTLY PLEASE CONTACT ME

SAIGA-12.com PISTOL GRIP CONVERSION STEPS & TIPS
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------- --

This is a guide to help those who want to convert their Saiga shotguns to
the pistol grip version.

********USE AT YOUR OWN RISK*******

This is not solely my own words, it is a compilation of many of the steps that the members of Saiga-12.com shared with everyone after
they converted their own shotguns.

Hopefully, the consolidation of all this helpful information into one location will be useful for others wanting to do the same.

Thank the many members who treaded where no one had before and cleared the way for the rest so that this conversion
could be completed with minimum cursing.... =)

hartzpad, inparidel, Salmonaxe, Siagalova, JBONE, Tomac AND many others !

This will remain a living document that will update whenever someone offers any new or innovative proceedure or item.

IF YOU HAVE SOMETHING TO ADD PLEASE DO NOT REPLY IN THIS THREAD

Just email me at USMC_LB@hotmail.com

This is strictly a TECHNICAL document and will not delve deeply into the rules & regulations pertaining to the Saiga shotgun & 922r
except to let people know the proper parts counts and the correct number of US parts to be compliant with the law.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Your Saiga shotgun has a parts count of 13. This means you need to replace 3 parts to be compliant with 922r.

1) Trigger
2) Disconnect
3) Hammer

If your Saiga shotgun has a removable choke then your parts count is 14 and you will need to replace 4 parts to be compliant.

1) Trigger
2) Disconnect
3) Hammer
4) Buttstock

The last addition to your parts count is your pistol grip.

If you DO NOT have a removable choke then you can use either a imported Pistol Grip or a imported Buttstock. One has to be
US made and the other can be imported.

If you DO have a removable choke then you have to use both, a US made Pistol Grip and a US made Buttstock.

*** In either case, IF you have your Saiga barrel re-threaded to use common
US made shotgun chokes then you CAN USE either a imported
buttstock or a imported pistol grip, but not both.

Here is a complete parts count for a Saiga shotgunwith a removable choke and a pistol grip:

(1) Receiver---------------------------------------------------------------------Russian
(2) Barrels-----------------------------------------------------------------------Russian
(3) Barrel extensions ---------------------------------DOES NOT EXIST ON SAIGA
(4) Mounting blocks,trunion -------------------------DOES NOT EXIST ON SAIGA
(5) Muzzle attachments-------------------------------------------------------Russian
(6) Bolts-------------------------------------------------------------------------Russian
(7) Bolt carriers-----------------------------------------------------------------Russian
(8) Operating rods -----------------------------------DOES NOT EXIST ON SAIGA
(9) Gas pistons----------------------------------------------------------------Russian
(10) Trigger housings -------------------------------DOES NOT EXIST ON SAIGA
(11) Triggers================================ US COMPLIANT
(12) Hammers=============================== US COMPLIANT
(13) Sears ---------------------------------------------DOES NOT EXIST ON SAIGA
(14) Disconnectors============================ US COMPLIANT
(15) Buttstock=============================== US COMPLIANT
(16) Pistol grips============================== US COMPLIANT
(17) Forearms, handguards--------------------------------------------------Russian
(18) Magazine bodies---------------------------------------------------------Russian
(19) Followers------------------------------------------------------------------Russian
(20) Floorplates ---------------------------------------------------------------Russian

*** It is possible now to install US COMPLIANT handguards that are
made for AK rifles. Take a look at Cobra 76 2's FAQ regarding this proceedure.


Below is a online Saiga guide that alot of us used to do our conversions but, keep in mind, the above guide is for Saiga rifles
and there are a handful of things that you DO NOT have to do on the shotgun that you have to do for the rifle.
I suggest you use the his website in conjunction with this guide:

http://www.cross-con...rsion/index.htm

Keep in mind, the above guide is foir Saiga rifles.

Our guide will let you know which steps mentioned in the rifle conversion need to be skipped in the shotgun conversion

============END OF SECTION ONE===========

more coming.....

This post has been edited by USMC_LB: 14 April 2005 - 07:35 PM

[USMC_LB]

============== SECTION TWO ===============

A) TOOLS YOU WILL NEED
-------------------------------------------------------------

Ak's are made of some "hard ass shit" - ( a quote from a fellow member regarding his experience
drilling on the Saiga-12 )

Remember to buy some decent drill bits.

Mine sucked and every single one of them is dull now.

Use a little oil to lube the bit to keep it from wearing out.

**** UPDATE**************

I got this helpful tip from someone that has experience drilling through that
tough Russian metal:

USE BEESWAX INSTEAD OF OIL.

A friend of mine was a jet engine mechanic in the Air Force. He routinely
had to drill through metals like titanium, iconel, and unobtanium ;-).

Seriously, he had access to ANY cutting oil available. Beeswax worked BEST!
I bought my beeswax at Home Depot. It came in stick form. It worked
when drilling hard Soviet 91-30 rifle receivers :-). If the Saiga receivers are anything like the 91-30 receivers.
I'd also recommend titanium or cobalt
drill bits. They don't cost much more >and are cheap insurance.
The beeswax will also extend the life of your drill bits.

**************************

Some people use a mini-mill.

If you do not have access to one then you will need one or more of
the following: (1) a drill press, (2) an hand drill, (3) a DREMEL tool with cutting discs and grinding discs, or hand tools.

If you don't have some form of dremel with various grinding wheels, it will be almost impossible because you'll wear out
your arm and your flat files in no time.

You will need a good set of drill bits. You will be surpised how fast the metal will wear out a drill bit.
Make sure to use some oil.

They don't have to be titanium or anything, they do have to be quality bits. that can go through
stainless at least, with oil of course.

My mini-mate workbench was indispensable! I would think this job would be ten times more
difficult without a vice!

AS YOU CAN SEE FROM THE ABOVE EXCERPTS, YOU WILL NEED QUALITY DRILL BITS !!

If you rivet in your triggerguard then I suggest you do some research
on that subject before you make up your mind one way or the other.

I do not have any detailed info about using rivets other than some
people have made a rivet tool out of a bolt cutter. The info is
out there you will just have to look for it.

If I can ever get any decent feedback on this I will definitely
share the info here in the FAQ.
============= END OF SECTION TWO ===============

This post has been edited by USMC_LB: 14 April 2005 - 07:24 PM

[USMC_LB]

=========== SECTION THREE ==========


US MADE FIRE CONTROL GROUP ( FCG )
----------------------------------------------------------------

You will need to get your US complaint parts now.

First get your US-made trigger group (hammer, disconnector & trigger).

You will want to use a single hook trigger. I have heard of some ppl using a double hook
but Russia switched to the single hook many years ago because the double-hook was a unnecessary fail-safe.

You can leave the Saiga hammer so long as you can keep the imported parts 10 or less.

The Saiga hammer has a slight cant to the right instead of being 90 degrees with the axis pin
sleeve. This is because the bolt hold-open requires the axis pin sleeve to be shorter on the right
side.

On the US hammer you can also dremmel-grind one side of the axis pin sleeve to get the
right striking geometry.

US FCGs can be had all over the 'net. Use "AK US trigger group" as a search term
and price shop. (offhand: TAPCO, RPBUSA, Centerfire Systems, Florida Gunworks, K-Var, Global Trades, Guns n' stuff, etc.)

If you use the Tapco A2 single hook FCG and the only thingyou will have to modify is the hammer.
Basically, trimming off the triangular portion at the base of the hammer, and trimming down the
sides of the hole where the pin goes through, so as to make room for the bolt hold open.

I used the FSE european single-hook FCG from RPBusa.com

It was one of the less-expensive on the net.

You might have to dremel-grind a little to get the angle right on the top of the trigger hook. Once I did this my FSE fire control group worked great. I also had to grind the front of the hammer as well, like everyone else has had to do.

WARNING: I have heard that the RED STAR ARMS adjustable FCG will not work in the Saiga
( Please correct me if I am wrong )


==========END OF SECTION THREE =========

This post has been edited by USMC_LB: 14 April 2005 - 07:36 PM

[USMC_LB]

=========== SECTION FOUR =============

REMOVING ORIGINAL FIRE CONTROL RIVETS
-----------------------------------------------------------

***** ATTENTION - If you have any information on using the "original" Saiga
tension spring that retains the normal FCG pins ( normally the shepards hook
performs this function in a normal AK ) please contact me so I can add
that option in this document so others may choose that route. Email me
at USMC_LB@hotmail.com ************

-----------------------------------------------------------

It took forever to drill out the original FCG rivets (you know the ones towards the rear of the stock.)

I finally realized that they were taking so long because they spin freely.... how annoying.

1. Time to remove the sporter trigger and hammer rivets.

This is done by carefully removing the expanded shoulder on the side opposite the head. Use a drill and a 1/4 inch bit.

Be very careful not to drill into the receiver!

Drill on the right hand side, and drift the rivets out from right to left.

You can support the receiver at the trigger guard and right side (bottom) with blocks of scrap wood. This is to keep the
receiver from rocking while you drill. Only drill enough to remove the expanded shoulder of the rear rivet, and not into the receiver.


2. Punch out the rivets and remove trigger and transfer bar parts (save the springs!).

The rear rivet is the trigger rivet and the trigger will fall out as soon as the rivet
is removed.

The forward pin holds the bolt hold open (BHO) lever spring, and the spring will put tension on the pin as you drift it right to left. Just get the forward pin started, and if it binds, just pull it out from the left side with a pair of pliers.

When the rivets are out, discard them.

3. Remove the standard fire control group axles and remove the hammer, disconnector, and springs.

After the trigger falls out, you will have to remove the front pin retention
spring, It may take a little elbow grease and needle nose pliers, but be
careful and do not deform it.

4. After the retention spring is out, you will have to remove the safety lever. It will take some wiggling and
twisting to get it out, but do not force it. Rotate the safety lever up. From the inside of the receiver, you
can see how to work it through the keyhole.

5. Remove the permanent fire control rivets by pushing them out right to left. You should not have to force
them. If they bind a little, pry or pull them out from the left side. Once the two permanent rivets are out,
and the rest of the fire control parts are out, basic disassembly is complete and it is time to move on
to the more complex aspects of disassembly.


=========END OF SECTION FOUR===========

This post has been edited by USMC_LB: 14 April 2005 - 07:36 PM

[USMC_LB]

===========SECTION FIVE==========

TRIGGER GUARD
---------------------------------------------------

**************************************************************
WARNING: If you remove the weld and both rivets the WHOLE plate
and trigger guard will come off.

By doing this you have also lost your safety lever stop.

If you remove this stop the safety lever will not have anything to stop
against when you are push it to the down position.
**************************************************************

• If you have already drilled the welds and the WHOLE plate AND trigger
guard has been removed DO NOT DESPAIR !!! Just skip down
to the section titles Bulgarian Trigger Guard installation.

If you want to use the existing trigger guard AND selector stop WHICH I HIGHLY
RECOMMEND then lets keep going.

NOW TO THE REMOVAL OF THE BOTTOM PLATE

First we are going to remove the trigger plate from the bottom of the
receiver. This plate is a piece of sheet metal that is riveted to the
bottom of the Saiga receiver.

Because we have removed the internal working parts, we are able to grind/drill/mill the rivet heads down to remove them and the trigger plate.

There are 2 rivets and 1 spot weld. The rivets are
located (#1) at the rear of the trigger guard and (#2) the front of
the coverplate near the mag release.

Save your trigger guard unless you are going to go with the Bulg. Trigger Guard.

Leave the rivet near the mag release alone and use a hacksaw to slowly cut across the cover plate. All you are wanting to leave is the rivet and the selector stop that curls over the side of the receiver.

You are done !


NOW if you removed all the welds and the rivets before reading the above section then please continue to the Bulgarian Trigger Guard installation.




BULGARIAN TRIGGER GUARD INSTALLATION
---------------------------------------------------------

******WARNING********
**********************

UNLESS YOU ARE FAMILIAR WITH RIVETING & AKs then I
recommend you use some kind of machine screws or nuts & bolts to
attach your trigger guard and selector stop.

You can purchase a
(1) Bulgarian trigger guard that has 5 rivet holes

(2) a selector stop that has 4 holes ( NOTE: this selector stop
did not make contact with the Saiga selector properly. It can be
modified by thinning it using a dremel but might be easier to
make a completely new one.

(3) and 3 rivets. ( use screws if you do not know how to rivet )

K-VAR sells these items as well as others on the 'Net.

I did not want to get in the habit of posting pictures so I just used a bunch
of astrerisks to show where the trigger guard & selector stop needs to
be cut. GOTO K-VAR to see what they look like and then my pictures
will make perfect sense


You will need to remove 2 of the 4 holes on the BIG end of the trigger guard
to make roon so it will not interfere with your Saiga's shotgun mag release.


*****|******
*O***|**O**
*****|*********************************
*****|*****TRIGGER GUARD************O**
*****|*********************************
*O***|**O**
*****|******

CUT ALONG THE DOTTED LINE, heh

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

You will need to do the same with the Selector Stop

You will also want to cut the 4 holes selector stop ( almost in half )
to fit under the remaining two holes on one end of the trigger guard.


*****|******
*O***|**O**
*****|*****
*****|***** SELECTOR STOP
*****|*****
*O***|**O**
*****|******

NOW YOU ONLY NEED 3 RIVETS TO ATTACH THE TRIGGER GUARD AND THE SELECTOR STOP

I didnt have any way to use rivets so I drilled my receiver and tapped the
holes and then used machine screws to attatch the trigger guard and selector stop
directly to the receiver.

I bought some nuts that fit the screws I decided to use for my trigger guard.

Once I drilled and tapped the holes I fastened the screws as far as the could go
and marked the screws to figure out how much I could cut off the screw so it
would not interfere with the hammer.

I removed the screws and put the nut all the way on it then cutoff with
a hacksaw. Using an allen wrench and a adjustable wrench I removed the
nut and that fixed the threads and was able to re-fasten the trigger guard
and the selector stop with the freshly shortened screws.

DO NOT ATTACH THE TRIGGER GUARD TO THE RECEIVER AT THIS TIME

YOU STILL HAVE SOME WORK TO DO BEFORE THE RECEIVER IS READY

-----------------------------------------------------------------------


===========END OF SECTION FIVE==============

more coming later......

This post has been edited by USMC_LB: 09 July 2005 - 09:26 PM

[USMC_LB]

============ SECTION SIX ==============

SAIGA Pistol Grip Hole
-------------------------------



I used a drill to cut out most of the material for the P-grip nut hole.

I laid it out, drilled the four corners and then drilled a center hole which I gradually worked bigger.
Then I tried to use a grinding wheel inside the hole, but that turned out to be a bad idea since
it wasn't small enough. It's better to just use coarse files.

A good center punch would be nice. If you don't have one be extra careful to keep the bit
from walking. I also started every hole with a smaller bit to lessen the chance of it walking.

Trigger Hole
--------------------
My saiga had the square cut hole in it for the trigger, but when I installed the trigger, the front
part of the hole was too small. This made it so that the trigger didn't move freely, it just barely
moved. So, I had to flat file the front edge of that hole to give the trigger clearance.



OVERVIEW OF REFINISHING CHOICES & POINTS: by NCShooter


It seems MolyResin and GunKote absolutely need to be completely baked at the
recommended temp for the recommended time.

Heat lamps aren't going to cut it for these type finishes.

In the troubleshooting of problems on these finishes I've read that they can
remain "soft" in places if the temp is too low. By soft, here, I mean slightly
softer than regular spray paint, and susceptible to partial removal by regular
cleaning chemicals or abrasion (holster wear, etc). If you go to the trouble
and expense of this type finish - get it right.

These two finishes are certainly recommended for use over bright, blasted
metal, or Parkerizing, with no adhesion problems - assuming thorough
degreasing and paint removal.

They are not recommended for use over paint.

More conventional paint systems are definitely more likely to be successful
over an existing Parkerized or well-adhered primer/paint system, but will need
an excellent primer over bare metal.

As to the integrity of factory finishes at the bare metal level - my Bulgarian
Arsenal SLR101SG (forged receiver) surprisingly has the finish flaking off down
to bare metal starting in the area of the mag well. I will definitely be
sandblasting that entire gun back to shiny metal and refinishing with MolyResin.

Deglossing chemicals used before painting should be used sparingly and
carefully as they actually dissolve the surface of the finish.

Too much, and they can have more of the effect of remover, softening and
loosening the finish you are trying to degloss, except that it will probably only
occur in certain places and could cause an adhesion problem between the
paint and the Parked finish. How do I know this?

Parkerizing is not susceptible to damage by common solvents as, like bluing,
it is actually part of the metal (iron phosphate?).

I'd use the wet sanding method for deglossing - and gain the added benefit
of smoothing the finish.


The "old locker over a burner" oven sounds like a winner - I was hung on
the idea of using electrical elements. Its only for a few sessions of an hour
each. It makes sense to forgo the controllability of electrical elements with
a thermostat, and just use a camp stove. A small window with an oven
thermometer inside could be used to help manually control the temp for the
requisite hour - w/the addition of a couple beers, voila!, I am a human
thermostat.

From what I've read and seen, (please note I do not have actual personal
experience with any but the last two here) the four main choices fall out like
this:

* If you want to strip all paint, or sandblast back to bare metal, and can
bake it @ 350F for one hour, MolyResin or GunKote are the ultimate finish. They
are only a fraction of the thickness of conventional paint and so can be used
on "working parts" like bolt carriers, FCG parts, slides, etc.

* If you want to strip all paint, or blast back to bare metal, can't bake it,
and can keep your hands off it for two weeks, Alumahyde II offers a finish some
would say is as durable as MolyResin or GunKote.

* If you only want to degrease and sand existing finish, the use of a
two-part "hardened" paint system like Duracote will offer a finish that is
smoother and exceeds the factory Saiga paint system in durability. This
requires premixing and so should be applied with an airbrush or refillable
"aerosol" can.

* "Spray Today & Shoot Tomorrow" w/Hi-Temp Spray Paint:
Degrease area to be refinished - as in just the pistol grip conversion area,
or all metal. Wet sand lightly with 320, then 400 grit wet/dry paper to degloss,
dry well (hair-dryer or heat lamp?), wipe off dust w/tack cloth, mask areas
not wanting paint, spray one or more coats of Hi-temp barbeque paint
from Lowes/Depot. Baking with halogen work light optional. Go to the
range and shoot that bad-mo-fo the very next day!!

Whatever product you choose, follow the manufacturer's technical
advice and a little common sense and it will come out looking sweet!
Don't forget to refinish any metal mags while you're at it.

============ END OF SECTION SIX ==============


more to come....

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This post has been edited by USMC_LB: 14 April 2005 - 07:39 PM