Can I shoot 5.56 in my Saiga .223?

[Highland Ranger 0]

Guess I should have taken more notice but, can I shoot 5.56 in my .223?

 

See this page for information regarding the difference: http://www.saami.org/Unsafe_Combinations.cfm

 

If you can site a source that would be great.

[Superhawk138 202]

Guess I should have taken more notice but, can I shoot 5.56 in my .223?

 

See this page for information regarding the difference: http://www.saami.org/Unsafe_Combinations.cfm

 

If you can site a source that would be great.

 

 

Previously discussed http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=23347

[Highland Ranger 0]

Thanks - saw it, seems to be some conflicting information.

 

Do we have anything we can reference perhaps from Saiga or the importer?

 

Saying that someone hasn't had a problem, doesn't mean everyone will have the same luck - a reference would be much better.

 

Thanks.

[Superhawk138 202]

The Russian American Armory website states the following about the rifle

http://www.raacfirearms.com/Saiga.htm

 

 

THE SAIGA IS AN AUTOLOADING RIFLE with a hunting buttstock and fore end (plastic). The Saiga rifles are intended for hunting big and medium-sized game under different climatic conditions. The rifles are developed on the base of the venerable Kalashnikov assault rifle and chambered for 7.62x39 and. 223 Rem (5.56x45) cartridges. Additional buttstock available with adjustable cheek rest.

[nalioth 405]

My God, this has been run over more than a dead possum in the road.

 

http://www.thegunzone.com/556v223.html

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5.56x45mm_NATO

 

http://therevolutionscript.blogspot.com/20...w-for-self.html

 

http://www.fulton-armory.com/556-vs-223-Chambers.htm

 

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=316211

 

and many many more

 

Bottom line:

 

In a modern firearm, you can use both safely. If you shoot 5.56 Nato in a target rifle chambered for .223, the most trouble you're likely to have is a stuck case.

 

The funny thing is: All .223/5.56 chambered arms are considered "modern".

 

Edited to add: The Saiga is marked ".223 Remington" to appear 'sporting'. It is a pretty much the same rifle (only with different furniture and no fun switch) as the AK-101 military Kalashnikov chambered for 5.56 Nato. It'll feed and fire any variety of .223/5.56 you want to feed it.

Edited November 15, 2008 by nalioth

[protected static 19]

Maybe this should be stickied (or whatever y'all call the permanent posts at the top of the forum)?

 

At any rate, Winchester's Law Enforcement division has the full story.

 

(Winchester link via the Kel-Tec Owner's Group forum)

[Highland Ranger 0]

Thanks for your posts. Again, I didn't need an explanation of the difference in the two rounds, its just that typically if a receiver is stamped .223 then that's all you can shoot "safely" according to SAAMI unless the manufacturer says it is ok to shoot either.

 

I did see that reference on their web site, it was the first place I looked - not sure what to make of it.

 

As far as many of the other links provided, some define the difference, some say it is not safe, I believe one review said it was a clever trick to maintain the guns "sporting" marketing.

 

i.e. leaves me with the same question.

 

Nalioth - I don't think I agree with this:

 

In a modern firearm, you can use both safely. If you shoot 5.56 Nato in a target rifle chambered for .223, the most trouble you're likely to have is a stuck case.

 

The funny thing is: All .223/5.56 chambered arms are considered "modern".

 

I do think it applies to the Saiga, but I know some modern AR's, for which it does not. Not sure about the current incarnation but at one point in did not hold true for the mini-14 either.

 

I was hoping someone had contacted the manufacturer and had a direct answer because that's the clearest way to settle this without shooting 1000 rounds and then counting fingers and toes.

 

If I have any luck I will post the data - also going to check THR.

[Bean.223 365]

Funny you should mention the manufacturer Highland. To this day it shocks me how they have ZERO presence here. After all the business we throw izhmash's way you would at LEAST think they would have a rep on occasionally....maybe even a I DONT KNOW BUSINESS MEMBER????

[Highland Ranger 0]

I noticed the same thing - was hoping they'd jump in. Understandable if they don't though - would kind of defeat the "sporting" marketing.

 

But they are probably busy making rifles - near as I can tell, even before the election they were selling as fast as they came in.

[protected static 19]

I do think it applies to the Saiga, but I know some modern AR's, for which it does not. Not sure about the current incarnation but at one point in did not hold true for the mini-14 either.

My understanding is that the only modern ARs that might have problems accepting 5.56 are those with match-grade chambers. The tighter fit between cartridge and chamber could result in a casing getting stuck due to the greater neck expansion of the 5.56. Since the Saiga isn't machined to that level of tolerance, it shouldn't be a problem.

 

Exploding rifles should only be a problem if a squib leaves a round stuck in the barrel. In that case, I'm guessing you'll have more problems if you're using a cast receiver than a stamped, milled, or forged receiver.

 

But no. None of this is from the manufacturer.

 

(As for Izhmash being a business member of the forum - I'd expect to see someone from RAA before Ishmash, and then not in any official capacity. It probably raises too many liability issues, particularly with a rifle that has such a large homebrew/DIY cult community surrounding it.)

[renegadebuck 16]

I do think it applies to the Saiga, but I know some modern AR's, for which it does not. Not sure about the current incarnation but at one point in did not hold true for the mini-14 either.

My understanding is that the only modern ARs that might have problems accepting 5.56 are those with match-grade chambers. The tighter fit between cartridge and chamber could result in a casing getting stuck due to the greater neck expansion of the 5.56. Since the Saiga isn't machined to that level of tolerance, it shouldn't be a problem.

 

Exploding rifles should only be a problem if a squib leaves a round stuck in the barrel. In that case, I'm guessing you'll have more problems if you're using a cast receiver than a stamped, milled, or forged receiver.

 

But no. None of this is from the manufacturer.

 

(As for Izhmash being a business member of the forum - I'd expect to see someone from RAA before Ishmash, and then not in any official capacity. It probably raises too many liability issues, particularly with a rifle that has such a large homebrew/DIY cult community surrounding it.)

 

 

Ditto. I've ran 3k or more rounds of nato ammo through mine. It's just hungry, not picky about what's for dinner.

[Snuffy Smith 0]

Ditto. I've ran 3k or more rounds of nato ammo through mine. It's just hungry, not picky about what's for dinner.

 

LMAO...I liked that somewhat about: "it's just hungry, not picky about what's for dinner" I asked RAA about the SAAMI rating for the Saiga 223 Remington, since the receiver is stamped 223 REM with a 5.56 caliber rating. They could/would not give me a definitive answer. The owner, as well as an employee, said they'd get back to me with an answer. It's been six weeks with the clock still ticking. I'd bet a dollar to a donut that I'll never hear from them.

 

The Russians might of been born at night, but they weren't born yesterday. Loose lips sink ships. If it's a hunting rifle, keep your mouth shut if barrel and receiver are 5.56 rated...no liability problems either. It's only my 0.2 cents worth.

 

Snuffy Smith