inparidel
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Posts posted by inparidel
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Don't know where to find a replacement but as a WAG you should be able to make 74/100 series FP work in it. Maybe.
WAG??? PLease interpret. I suspected that a '74 pin MIGHT be able to be modded to work. Have you any real-world inf on that?
Thanks.
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Gentlemen:
I don't know if this topic has been done to death or not, but. . .Cobra (buddy) or anyone else: What firing pin on the AK market is a viable replacement for the Saiga .223 pin. I have just found out ( in the middle of a match, no less) that mine is toast and won't strike a primer sufficiently anymore. It is not broken, but after 20,000 + rounds and many, many won matches, the pin is worn out and too short to properly strike the primers. PLEASE anyone let me know of a source for the pins, or a substitute, even if some filing is required.
Thanks much.
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If you're set up to use the Galil orlite mags, will these work without any modification? I'd like to get some, but I don't want to have to make any mod that renders my orlites unusable or unreliable.
Stick with your Orlites.
The Weigers require your mag latch to be ground.
Some folks grind just enough to get the Weigers to fit, which leaves them with loose (but functional) Orlites....
Have fun.
Slightly wrong. The mag catch stays as is, but either the mag gets a trim to allow it to fit under the extended bolt lugs (a charming way of making a non-high-cap importable gun), OR grind the aforementioned lugs to what amounts to normal, bulgy or SAR 3 height, which is what I did (the latter) so all my .223 mags fit all my .223 AKs (Romy, Bulgy, Russian, etc.). I have posted pics on this thread so may times, you should be able to dredge them up in threads or my gallery.
Enjoy the wondrful world of "conversion" and Americanization (don't forget the 922 parts).
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Welcome back. Boy did you drop back in at a busy time...
Ya need to make sure the images are not bigger than say...800 pixles, or 100KB I think it is. You should be getting an error message saying that.
One way to post them is to upload them to a hosting site like "Photobucket", then link to them using that Image tag button.
The way I do it is click the "Browse" button, and then upload the already resized images straight from my hard drive.
I use a program called Picasa (free download) to import, edit, and resize them.
I'm moving this post out of the 12 ga section. I think we even have a sticky already about this.
Thanks bro. But I have not exceded the size you mentioned, and I cannot figure out to save my life how to post on photobucket. I have an account, but there is NO link for "upload." So, I can't figure out how to upload without a link. Thanks though. If you can help, please do.
Thanks much
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Hey, Cobra. . .or whomsoever, I have been trying to upload pics to my own album, but the pics won't upload. It's been a while since I have been on the forum, so. . .is there something I need to do that I didn't a year ago? I click on the "add image" button, the I select the image from my computer, and then, after a bit of a wait, I get a blank page and no image was uploaded. Has the process changed?
I apologize for posting this dipzoid post here, but I could not find a link for such problems. Please help.
Thanks bros.
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Ok, as the title says, I want to do a S12 conversion, but I'd like to keep the FCG where it is. What is the pro's and con's of moving the the FCG and installing a pistol grip in that location verses the stock location and a pistol grip behind the reciever? I really would like to know more of this conversion, and yes I did a forum search and found lots of great info. I just wanted to know about why the move, is it function, asthetic, or what? Thanks for any info, I'm at that stage that I have to decide which way I need to go?
The linkage supported trigger that comes on an "as is" S-12 is really mushy and not conducive to competitive performance shooting such as myself and many people here do. If you just want it for hunting or home defense, then leave it as is, but if you do IPSC and other run-and-gun stuff, you can improve it greatly with a conversion.
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I too have been looking for the railed forends. Does any one know when more might be imported or made?
If you don't mind a little grinding and fitting, I am working on a rail I modified from a mini 14 rail
I had to remove the gas block and gas tube, then fit the gas tube inside the rail by grinding out an area for the site block to fit into, and the end of the rail for the cover to fit under as well, then leave the gas tube in the rail, slide them both on and refit the gas block. Its on and off with the gas block a few times but for a hundred dollar rail , I like it
I am also thinking of using an old scope ring to clamp the front of the rail to the gas piston area
I 'm trying to decide where to trim the over hand off, probably just above the rear of the safety at an upward angle to make it easier to install the bolt
CAA makes a similar deal that is made for an AK. It will also need fiddling with, but being that it's made for AKs, it may need about the same amount that standard AK forends need as done by Cobra and others here. The only hook it that the CAA, AK forend & full rail costs about $400. If the Mini-14 deal is much cheaper, then, go with that.
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Not to be a dick. but,Is it ok to remove or deface an import mark? I see you had no choice but to remove the section for the side folder.
I am in the process of doing one and thought this would be an issue.
Nice looking project. I cant wait to see the latch install. It seemed to be difficult with the trunion in the way.
You are the guide in my project and thanks for posting this step by step build.
It's fine to remove any marks except the serial number.
So far, so good man! She's coming together nicely. You may want to do some research on that forward latch. The S-12 is different where the trunnion and magwell area is concerned. From what I understand, it doesn't just drop right in, you have to do some custom work on the latch itself. There is a thread about that somewhere in here with good pics and details.
Cobra:
What's up guy? I hope all is OK with you. Long time no visit the site, but. . regarding your response to this guy. . .I am pretty near completely certain that the importer MUST be on a gun that has been imported. That's why it's on every gun of any kind that has been imported. The BATFE would like to know from whence the thing comes. The SN and the importer are pretty much carved in stone as far as I have seen/heard/researched.
Later dude.
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Mike
Can you enlarge the opening to kind of funnel the mag into position not too too much but a bit more of a flare might help us competitors out a lot and make the design stronger.
Well I wasn't going to mention it just incase someone else was working on one but staying low key about it. I thought it might help give me an edge. This is one of the improvements I was talking about. Not saying I'm a step ahead of ya, just stepping with ya! Got you boys covered. Any other hints what comp guys might like. I think I have it all covered but you never know.
OOPS, guess I goofed on that one, but your right it will be a selling point. There are after market funnels for ARs and pistols, having one on a shotgun just makes sense.
It's no problem and not a big deal. like you was saying the concept has been used over and over and It wasn't like you exposed a secret or anything like that. The flare will make a big difference in the amount of side to side off ness you can be. I had mentioned the flare to 1911 and Kmoore and they both seemed to think it was the ticket as well. I am very excited about the magwells!
Mike:
Please indulge me if this has been addressed before, but. . .to make the AGPs or factory mags work in your well, does the front mag hook/tab need to be removed, and what else, such as various ridges, needs to be removed?
Thanks
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Dean didn't use it in the match. He used his Benelli instead and had quite a few problems with it. He claims that many times he will out cycle it and have to pull the trigger a second time. He tested the Saiga, and as hard as he tried, he could not out cycle the S-12 action. Many competitors came by and tested the S-12's custom trigger. All said it was MUCH better then their 1100's or Benellis.
Dean's Benelli also malfunctioned on at least one stage with the bolt bouncing out of battery. I had previously test fired the S-12 with about 500 rounds and it ran flawlessly. Dean fired about 3 boxes out of it, and it ran like a champ with even the lightest of loads.
Tony
Tony:
I just had a chance to seew one of these new things used at a local IPSC rifle/shotgun match this past Tues eve. Interesting critter, Tony. I have a few questions:
First, what size are the barrel ports, and is there any formula/reason for where on the barrel they are drilled? Is any particular ammo, with respect to powder burning speed that would be preferred, or determine where you drilled the ports?
Second. . .I like the charging handle addition so it can be charged by the left hand easily (for us righties).
Third: the comp/brake on the muzzle. . .how would you stack it up against the Shark in terms of efffectiveness? Also, is it much heavier than the Shark (which I have on mine)?
Fourth: the amount of metal you removed from the bolt to allow easier closed-bolt mag changes seems like alot. It does aid in mag changes, but. . .any reason I should be worried about magnum loads or other stress issues?
Lastly: The guy that owned the gun also had a mag-catch extension that I am not sure is on the one shown here. I have one comment FYI for future mods on what seems to be a fine (AND FAST!) S-12: The mag catch extention seems to have been welded/brazed on the forward side of the mag catch. That created a problem for the guy when he tried to run the Wraithmaker drum in the gun. The problem is that the WM drum top would not clear the extension due to the additional tab of metal. The owner said that he plans too buy a WM and grind the front tab/hook on the drum to get it past the catch extension. I mentioned to him that that might result in some forward and backward slop, but he wants to do it anyway.
We are in South Florida, and I suspect thhat you probably have not sold many of these new things down there yet, so, you may even have an idea who this guy is. Perhaps you and he need to chat. But. . .all in all, a very interesting AND FAST (can't mention that enough) piece, Tony.
Please address my questions when you get a chance. Thanks in advance.
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If you buy this combination folding stock and pistol grip and just tack it onto a Saiga rifle or shotgun, does this not make your foreign parts count and pistol conversion somehow not legal? Or are there now US made add on combo parts?
Like the other guys said. . .you wanted a simple yes or no. . .YES, that Russian stock and PG IS good for a pound (that's five years for those not familiar with the prison vernacular) in the Fed Pen. It is a collection of MORE than ten total imported parts, and therfore enittles you to be bought for a carton of cigarettes by your new husband, Bubba, in the fed pen in West Va.
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Like the flectar style cammo, howd you do that?
THANK YOU so much!!! I am glad that you recognized the camo as what I intended: Flectar.
I have an extended post on how I did the Flectar on the S-12 forum (where I did an S-12 in the same pattern of camo) that explains the process point for point. If you can't find it, I may re-live the explanation again. But, THANKS much for the compliment, and noticing that its my version of Flectar, again!!!
Here's her new appearance after got my quad rail for her. I have some OD green low-profile "ladder" type rail covers coming real soon. But until then. . .here she is, in all her sexy beauty!!!!
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I've actually got a couple Orlites myself, but I've held off on doing the bullet guide mod even though I've got the kit. Procrastination is a wonderful thing. I come to find out that Bulgarian waffle mags will work without installing a bullet guide, so I've planned to buy some of them to see. For me, less work = more fun. Any experience with the Bulgarian mags? Pros, cons?
I have buddy that has a 20" Saiga .223 (which I am about to buy from him for a .223 RPK project build) and he also had some that worked SOMETIMES (operative word). They will not work as reliably as you would want, having bought an AK rifle. DO the bullet guide for TOTAL flawless performance.
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I've actually got a couple Orlites myself, but I've held off on doing the bullet guide mod even though I've got the kit. Procrastination is a wonderful thing. I come to find out that Bulgarian waffle mags will work without installing a bullet guide, so I've planned to buy some of them to see. For me, less work = more fun. Any experience with the Bulgarian mags? Pros, cons?
I have buddy that has a 20" Saiga .223 (which I am about to buy from him for a .223 RPK project build) and he also had some that worked SOMETIMES (operative word). They will not work as reliably as you would want, having bought an AK rifle. DO the bullet guide for TOTAL flawless performance.
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Looks great!
Thanks much gentlemen. It's only a labor of love.
Thanks again!
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Im looking for a good metal rail I can drill holes into a standard plastic handguard and attach it to the bottom.
I dont like the halo handguards because they replace my sights, The custom jobs where someone modifys a standard existing handguard would be good if I could buy it already made. I just dont have the time to work on that myself.
The plastic rail handguard in my picture, the rail broke while firing it and I was left holding my m900 flashlight in one hand and my saiga in the other. I would really like to have that flashlight on my saiga and mounted solid.
I also think that HALO rails are WAY TOO HEAVY, and otherwise plain SUCk (I have seen guys that split their lips using the ridiculous things). The TDI rails are glass re-inforced polyamide for ARs, and are super strong, and work really well. Just use common sense when judging the screw head with relation to hitting the barrel on the inside of the forend. You may need to grind the screw head IF you place it too far forward. If you do not, well. . .then no problems. All this will become obvious when installing them.
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Has anyone ever pressed a s12 barrel from the trunion before, I was thinking about a winter project.
I've done several AK's and was wondering how hard the press is, and if a 12 ton would handle it?
My biggest concern is cracking the trunion on the way out.
Here is a simple jig you can use to remove the Saiga 12 bbl. I have a more complicated jig, but the simple one is good for infrequent barrel removals.
DONT FORGET TO SCRIBE BBL, IT MAKES IT EASY TO REINSTALL BBL.
Jammer:
what is that short piece of steel that you have inside the trunion?? Obviously not a barrel. What is it?
Thanks.
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Bob,
I am with you I don't see how it can be done, SBS sure, but not select fire. Perhaps they are going after the law enforcement community?
At any rate good luck finding those magazines,
The US Military has already selected and mfg'd a select fire shotty for US mil use. There will be ZERO ned for any select fire or drum toys for the S-12, unless it is to end the importation of the S-12. Watch Futureweapons for the select fire 12 guage (with miraculously ZERO recoil) for US troop usage. ANy discussion of S-12 drums or select fore is merely the death song for this wonderful gun.
Please see Futureweapons on the issue!!
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Found this on a accessory search....
http://alliedarmament.homestead.com/saiga_..._op_800x296.jpg
Pictured above is an extremely modified Russian (Izmash) Saiga 12, 12 guage shotgun, modified by Allied Armament. The modifications include installation of a pistol grip, trigger guard, magazine well and 8 rd magazine, Quad Rail system by Halo Manufacturing, forward pistol grip, and new synthetic butstock. The sytstem allows the already venerable shotgun to be suited for close combat situations. Currently the gun comes in a semiautomatc configuration. We are also working on a civilian transferrable destructive device version that will run fully automatic. Please see options below.
Gun as pictured above $1400 one in stock.
What?. . .are you guys TRYING to get this thing delecared a DD???? WTF??? PLEASE. . .CHILL and just enjoy these wonderful things as they are!!!! Are you guys TRYING to put an end to these coool guns????? The US has already chosen a SELECT FIRE shotty, the AA-12. The S-12 is NOT in the running. Watch and learn.
http://www.defensereview.com/modules.php?n...cle&sid=892
http://www.defensereview.com/article741.html
http://www.futurefirepower.com/introducing...tgun-with-video
I repeat. . .ZERO RECOIL!!!! Makes the . . .MY beloved S-12 look like a stone axe!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0mO0qsdSqA&NR=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3v8AN_fJlQ...n%20Rifle%20gun
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Found this on a accessory search....
http://alliedarmament.homestead.com/saiga_..._op_800x296.jpg
Pictured above is an extremely modified Russian (Izmash) Saiga 12, 12 guage shotgun, modified by Allied Armament. The modifications include installation of a pistol grip, trigger guard, magazine well and 8 rd magazine, Quad Rail system by Halo Manufacturing, forward pistol grip, and new synthetic butstock. The sytstem allows the already venerable shotgun to be suited for close combat situations. Currently the gun comes in a semiautomatc configuration. We are also working on a civilian transferrable destructive device version that will run fully automatic. Please see options below.
Gun as pictured above $1400 one in stock.
What. . .are you guys TRYING to get this thing delecared a DD???? WTF??? PLEASE. . .CHILL and just enjoy these wonderful things as they are!!!!
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As title says, I just picked up a new IZ-109 19" Saiga 12G shotty. I must say it looks and feels nicer than I thought. Has the threaded barrel with protector, factory BHO, and a 5round mag.
Here in CT we still have the AWB so can't convert it with a pistol grip, etc, but I was wondering about a few things.
(I am also reading everything I can about the saiga 12 off this forum right now).
I want to add a thumbhole stock.
I want to add a good compensator on the threaded barrel.
I want to change to a different front hand guard with rails.
I want to add a red dot so it.
In leu of these additions, what parts count do I have to worry about for 922r?
Anyone have lists of these or how I could go about to keep parts count legal and still make the rifle
look like the evil black rifle it SHOULD look like without the pistolgrip?
Thanks all in advance
FYI. . .IF Conn. has the AWB as it existed on the federal level fo all of us before the "sunset," the thumbhole will be a violation of the ban. . .again, assuming, as it is in many states that kept a state version after the federal ban went bye-bye, a thumbhole IS EXACTLY the same as a PG as far as box-fed shotties go. The thumbhole will place you in violation, just as it did for all of us DURING the fed ban. Just FYI
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Well here is what she looked like before the conversion
I bought the rifle NIB for $380 and put $150 into it for conversion parts.
I added
-Ace stock and receiver block
-SAW style pistol grip
-Tapco trigger group
Since I don't have the tools or knowledge to do a conversion I contacted Jesse over in Albany, Oregon to do the conversion (web page here http://www.762llc.com/index.htm ). I got quite a few recommendations about his work so I gave him a call. The price of the conversion was $100 and included refinish of bare metal areas after conversion. He did an awesome job! I am about an hour away so I decided to drive down there but he said to ship there and back would only be around $35-40
So what do you guys think?
Close up of conversion work
Pistol grip is very snug. There is no play at all (I have heard some conversions leave the PG loose?)
(The flash made the bottom look a little light. The color matches original finish.)
I have a folding piece on the way for the stock so that will add an extra .7" LOP to the shotgun.
Total price was $630
One comment. . .you'd probably be happier with the 1" recoil rubber ACE recoil pad. I know I am, as well as are most of the guys in my club whose S-12s I converted for them.
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Take out the recoil spring to find the hidden screw underneath.
Umm...yeah, I feel stupid, just found that one. Thanks guys! I just need to get on my SAW grip now...
BTW. . .in case you did not know, your Russian PG stock is illegal in a federal BATF sense unless you somehow added enough US parts to reduce the imoprted number--form the BATF list--to no more than ten. So, get that thing off ASAP, buddy.
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the website doesn't have any in stock and I've searched several places, but can't find any.
Help?
Bro. . .make one, or have one made that is MUCH better than any one you can find on the web or any shop. Check out my "tri-rail" model and my "uni-rail" model. It's really better than buying one with one half-assed bottom rail that the lights will slide off of with the recoil. I bought the Russian one with one botom rail and the light jumped the rail stops when I shot the damned thing. PM me for instructions.
The following is a newer pic after I drilled out the rail holes for cooling and lightening:
Saiga .223 Barrel Twist & Ammo Questions
in Saiga .223
Posted · Edited by inparidel
Just FYI. . .both 62 and 55 work real well in the S-.223 (almost the same, which lends to the conclusion that it is close to 1 in 9). I find that match, or my handloads, in 55 gr. work best. "Best" equates to 2 MOA in my S-.233.
I hope that helps.