BpS12
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Posts posted by BpS12
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My Surefires work well, but I cant put them in a mag pouch and get them out in a hurry. Too much in the way of ribbing. The AGPs fit better and pull out much easier. and are just a bit shorter as well. Haven't fired them yet but they hand cycle fine.
Good luck,
LRoDV,
Mikel
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Thanks everyone, this is my first major mod(I did a .22 w/ a folding stock 20yrs ago, lol) and it took awhile to get it right for me. I am seriously thinking of doing my own stock kit though, so that you can add your preferred PG to it. I 'd rather it was more one peice than the KVar/Centuray arms kits.
I tend to leave the Foregrip in slanted back position because it sits in my safe most of the time and this makes it much easier to pull out and swing into place, if needed in a hurry. The BHO assist makes locking the bolt back with either hand a breeze. Either with the thumb of the right hand or the fingers of the left as I reach up under and hook the charging handle with my left thumb. You guys know, whatever works best for the individual, right.
Anyway heres a few more pics.
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"Anyway, we stopped by a grocery store and picked up a bunch of apples, to act as "clays" (because the land we were shooting on has a lot of horses running around at times, and figured the apples would be less worry, as far as clean-up, compared to bits of clays everywhere)."
If I may make a suggestion, you might want to use steel shot if you are expecting horses to clean up your mess. Horses are VERY delicate animals compared to cattle and pigs. I doubt lead poisoning someones horses would be high on your to do list, lol. And it may not take that much. The steel shot would likely have less of an effect on them chemically and most likely just pass through if it is ingested.
Otherwise, it sounds like a great idea and I'm glad everyone had fun.
LRoDV,
Mikel
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PS-As some stated in another post about Bullpups, the Bayo is nice for CQB as you tend to do "Elbow" type strikes with the Bullpup and it then becomes a more managable short spear for tight quarters.
Heh... I prefer the overhead cranial smash with the buttplate... you put your finger in the trigger guard and do an overhead smash, upon impact your finger causes a discharge (into the ceiling) and the added recoil helps with incapacitating your victim...
Lol, I don't like stray rounds in my house, but thats kinda neat.
My dad lives in Safford AZ, if I get back out there sometime, I'll bring ETy along.
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bullpups are neat, but i have problems with mag changes on them sometimes. it might just take practice. the Saiga-12 is a bitch compared to the non-shotgun saigas in this regard. installing the pistol grip made mag changes a HELL of a lot easier... it is just awkward as fuck with the sporter buttstock.
on the other hand, with a bullpup shouldered, your wrist does not need to support the whole weight of the weapon while trying to keep the muzzle up on as on a standard conversion... you are using your biceps to hold the muzzle up... so this might actually be easier.
maybe i will get to play with an S-12 bullpup one day
You're right on the money, it does take some getting used to, but the balance is near to perfect. On mine the mag change is a bit tight but with a bit of filing on the points of the mags and practice the PG and your palm heel become a guide that makes it alot easier.
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The bayo is a bit over the top though.. i mean, if i have a bayo, i want the gun to be longer so that i can poke people at range.
Yea, I'm just bein a slight troll. Bullpup style looks kick ass.
LOL, is ok. Both the bayonet and Scope tend to stay in the safe or on my SHF vest along with all but one 5rnd mag(in gun) and an extra 10rnd mag full of 00 buck which are in safe next to bed.
The extra shells on the side give one extra round per the first 5 mags or hold specialty rounds depending on the "Mission". Little 9LED lite works well in house and the laser works well for "hip" shooting if necassary. Got somenew AGP 10mags that I have yet to try. Their a bit sticky at the top but some dry lube might help.
This is my first Saiga/Shotgun, it was easy to go overboard, lol. And this it the final config. of I think 3.
LRoDV,
Mikel
PS-As some stated in another post about Bullpups, the Bayo is nice for CQB as you tend to do "Elbow" type strikes with the Bullpup and it then becomes a more managable short spear for tight quarters.
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Hey, I finally figured out the pic posting thing. This is Etin(Giant/Troll) Thrasher. A stock S12 with the Centuray arms Bullpup stock(modified) a light, laser, NcStar 2-7x32 Scope(likely to go on my long rifle once done) Flip-up sights, 5-position forgrip, Gunfixer's gas plug, Bayonet, Chaos Muzzelbrake, Limb Save slip-on buttpad, etc. It's at least one part over compliance without mags.
There are more pics in my album....http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?autocom=gallery&req=user&user=15573&op=view_album&album=334
Lifa Rettur og Deyja Vel,
Mikel
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Thanks guys,
I'm gonna try a few more things on my 'puter first and then start branching out. Cobra, if all else fails you my be getting an email from in a few weeks, lol. Thanks.
LRoDV,
Mikel
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Ok I finally got it done but the system wont let me post any pics, even to my gallery, it just keeps logging me off or saying the pic is too big. Any help here wouldbe GREATLY appreciated. Computers really arn't my thing, lol.
LRoDV,
Mikel
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I've been trying for a couple of hours now to post pics to my album(my first and only one) and I keep getting kicked back to the "Log In" page. I've followed the advice in the FAQ page and it'doesn't help. Is it me or the system?
LRoDV,
Mikel
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I pretty much did the same as Mike only I used a piece of brass tubing that I crafted into a tool just for the job. It lets you get a firmer grip on the spring leg and from different angles (so you don't have to remove the stock).
As for which leg to bend, I put it back in the way it was supposed to go. Long leg toward the buisness end, short leg toward the stock. I did bend the shit out of it to keep it from slipping off. There's enough slack to put a small bend in it with some needle-nose pliers. You might go ahead and file a notch in it too just for extra grip. I might do that myself now, it never occured to me to do that.
I noticed that when it does slip off, it's because the entire BHO plate has too much room to move on the trigger pin. I put a small hitch pin on it to keep it from moving around as much. I haven't tested it at the range yet, but the gun seems to cycle fine. Just a matter of whether or not it'll hold up under fire.
I did similar but used a nail set to back the pin off flush with the FCG and pulled it back out just enough to slip the Spring in and push the pin thru. I then used a paperclip with a tiny hook to it to pull the end of the spring onto the BHO.
I've also put a washer in between the FGC and the BHO to keep it from sneaking over away from the Bolt Carrier rail and slipping up too far and out of the reciver hole.
Lifa Rettur og Deyja Vel,
Mikel
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Somebody said the Kushnapup uses and external trigger mechExternal trigger mech?
Is that even possible?
The Russians use and external tube to run their linkage on their Bullupped Draganov Sniper rifle. If thier doing it.....why not?
Lifa Rettur og Deyja Vel,
Mikel
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Thanks. I ordered the Gun Fixer plug last week so I expect it shortly. I guess what I do understand is with the OEM plug shoot everything on setting 1...slugs, buck, high brass etc. Use setting 2 when you buy low brass or light loads and it won't cycle on 1. That's about the depth of my knowledge...I was kind of hoping for something equally as stupid simple for the four settings on the gun fixer plug and a initial setting??????
Sorry to be so thick...I just don't get it.
Good thread, I just ordered mine last week as well along with 2 Surefire 10rnd mags.
LRoDV,
Mikel
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Thanks for the range info. I've been mostly back woods "plinking" with mine and haven't been to the range yet. The longest range I can find in my area is only 300yrds anyway, lol. I've got a NcStar 2-7x32 scope mounted on mine with BUIS. The 2x works great for outdoor close range. Looking forward to trying it for longer. If I can get 200yrds out of these slugs I'd be a happy camper but, 100 may be the better bet.
I do agree that the shotgun is likely the good Civilian primary weapon. Easy to maintain and multi-use. I used to live in Arizona where a .308 would have had a good deal of use, but not here in Ohio, lol.
LRoDV,
Mikel
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Right now, I do, but that is mostly due to that fact that I can't justify haveing a .308 in a state where I can't hunt with it. I'm also really getting into the S12 though and have found slugs that are designed to reach 200yrds. I figure if they built for 200, I may be able to push out to 250-300yrds. This would put me on par with a stock M4 I believe and useful if needed. But since most lines of sight in my area are less than 200yrds, it's not much of a problem. Also the cornicopia of ammo for the S12 is astounding, can't wait to get ahold of some 12ga. HE and Frag grenades, lol.
Eventually, I would like to cut my S12 barrel to just in front of the Bullpup handguard(bout 13-14") and use it as a PDW with a Bullpuped .308 w/22" barrel as primary. Course, I may also need to eat a boat load more protein just to carry everything, lol.
Lifa Rettur og Deyja Vel,
Mikel
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Ok, here's my take....
On my SHF(Shit Hits Fan) Vest, lower front left, I have a drop pouch that will hold four 5rd. mags and two 10rd. .45 mags, plus my cleaning kit. I keep slugs in these 4 mags for distance shots as I should have more time/cover to reload in a hostile situation. On the lower front right, I have a Six mag pouch for 8-10rdrs of 00Buck for CQB. I carry a Taurus PT-145 with light and laser along with pocket tools, etc in a gadget pouch above the four 5rdrs. for backup/CQB and a .357 with 5.5in. barrel on my right hip for quick shots and handheld distance. I should also mention the .380 strapped to my inner left calf, lol. My Bullpupped S12 has an 5rd. shell holder on the right side and my vest has a 10rd. shotshell pouch over the six mag pouch on the upper right. Both of which hold extra shot/slugs or specialty rds. Door Breeachers, Flashbangs, etc., on back I have a pack and add-on bag for exra gear , etc. and an EMT bag. A Gas mask in pouch on my left hip(hold over from my Army days). And I have various other puches as needed.
Yes I'm one of those damned "Survivalist" that believe our society will eventually crumble. Hel, we all have to have something to look forward to, lol.
I'd love to have a 20/30rd. drum but imho, it would only be good for a starter mag and then go all stick after that. Also a lanyard on it would be more beneficial than a BIG drop pouch. Esp. something like those key reels that would pull it back out of the way once dropped. For a strickly defensive position several of them would be great, but if you're on the move, more than one(in the gun) would be too much bulk to carry for so little advantage as skipping one reload.
Well, thats my 2 bits. Good luck.
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I'm not buying the horizontal "spreader" coolaid. Chances are, you're going to be shooting at a vertical target in a defensive or offensive situation. You would want the shot pellets to run more vertically, to put more lead on your target, and less on the bystanders.
Tony
Well, here's another opinion......
"The point man of Navy SEAL teams(during the VietNam War) liked to carry the Ithaca M37 for the firepower it could bring to bear in the jungle where engagements were usually fought a point-blank range. The Navy also made up some modified Ithaca M37s for its SEALs. The magazine tube was extended almost to the muzzle of the 20-inch barrel and its latch lug was repositioned. The trench gun ventilated handguard was not used. The modified M37 could now carry two additional rounds for a total of eight. A shot spreader (commonly called a "duck bill") was attached to the end of the barrel. The shot spreader's purpose was to flatten the shot group exiting the barrel from a circular pattern to an oval pattern. The shot spreader gave more coverage of the target at usual engagement ranges. These guns are now quite rare. Since the end of hostilities in Viet Nam, combat shotguns in the military inventory have been augmented by militarized versions of the Mossberg 500 and Remington 870. Nevertheless, the Ithaca M37 was a proven, useful tool. They are probably still in the racks of Naval Special Warfare armories."
Would seem that in a hostile situation with either/and/or moving targets(crossways) or several targets in relative line(as if advanceing?), the duck bill(horizontal) would prove more effective. However you are correct that in a bystander ridden situation, it would be more of a liability.
LRoDV,
Mikel
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First, if 00 buckshot has an average spread of 1"/yard without a choke, what is the approximate average spread with a Full Choke?
Second, is there such a thing as a Horizontal Choke? IE, one that would keep the pellets tighter along the Vertical plane, but allow them to spread out along
the Horizontal plane.
Third, Has anyone come up with a "quick attach" choke tube that would fit after the muzzlebreak? My thought being that this may make the muzzlebreak a bit more useful, at least during shot shooting. Could be wrong, which is why I'm asking.
Lifa Rettur og Deyja Vel,
Mikel
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"Except for 3 gun matches, I haven't seen anyone that could accurately keep track of "was that 18 or 19 rounds?" while being shot at and or having to kill others and possibly deal with buddies that got wounded, or being hurt yourself. I'm not saying it can't be done. I'm saying that nobody in my Ranger unit was able to do it under the stress of actual combat...."
Corbin,
I think you're right on the mark. Under fire and with SHtF, round count is the last thing you're ganna be concentrating on. This is why I also suggested a "Next to last round" Tracer or Whislter round. For you guys shooting Hi Caps maybe the 5th and 4th from last round. Downside to the tracer is that the "tangos" may be able to trace it back to you. A Whistler can give you away, but if you're already shooting....? Question is, Will YOU hear it?
I realize the LRBHO has been the standard for decades, but there has to be something better. How many people have been shot, trying to shoot with an empty chamber and open bolt?
I am trying to come up with a simple mod that can be done to most any gun/mag. One thought being a "Smart mag" with a sensor strip that plugs into a gun mounted lead to a light, just under the rear sight, that changes from (as you mentioned) green to yellow to red as you empty the mag. Downside is.....That itty bitty LED light can be picked up by a sniper several hundred yards away. Hmmm, perhaps we need a rheostat(sp), lol.
My Taurus PT-145 has a mechanical "Round in the Chamber" Indicator, but that doesn't tell me when I'm down to my last couple of rounds. A mechanical indicator would be nice and I'm working on that too. Think OLD Loony Tunes, with a flag sticking up telling you "Hey dumb A$$, You're bout out of Ammo!!!",
LOL.
Thanks for the feedback,
Mikel
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I'm thinking about this as an under the barrel add on.
Why? Just because I still can!
http://world.guns.ru/grenade/gl05-e.htm
However, I like this one MUCH Better! I wonder if this would count toward the 922r requirement?
Why bother? Reload what you want, flares, HE, Thermite, whatever, all you have to do is learn how. Or wait till SHtF and pick up what the Military leaves behind. The S12 can shoot 12ga. grenades, etc. An extra launcher just adds weight and is slow to reload.
Just a thought,
Mikel
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"Having your hand on the grip finger on the trigger does you no good with no ammo. use your off hand to do the easy job of suporting the weapon, and use your strong hand to do everything it should do anyway."
Sorry but for the S12, I'd have to disagree. Train to count your rounds(5 and 8rnd mags) and reload(left handed if possible) with a round in the chamber, finger off the trigger but ready to rock. Also skips racking the bolt. If you've ever been rushed, Paintball/Airsoft, on the street or in combat, hel even in a video game, you know you're mostly likely to die reloading. Better to leave a round in the chamber, esp at CQ, than to have to pull another weapon in the middle of a reload.
This said, I'm also speaking from a S12 Bullpup configuration that is much like holding a heavy pistol. But I can stay on Target and reload at the same time. Which is always my preferance. I also have issues with the LRBHO concept(so your bolts open, big deal, if the enemy is still shooting and your not, whose gonna win?) and am trying to devise a method of "Last Round(in Chamber) Warning". Perhaps a next to last round Tracer or "Whistler" or something similar.
Any ideas,
Mikel
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I'd be happy with some long range FMJ slugs. I think I saw Remington with some JHPs awhile back. Should have pick them up when I saw them.
:-(c
Mikel
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I converted a Saiga .410 and gave it to my wife along with roses for Valentine's Day. Here's picture of me holding Big Bro (Saiga-12) and Donna holding Little Sis (Saiga .410).
Lucky man, I'd likely get shot with it if I gave my woman a shotgun(she has a handgun and thinks that is all she'll ever need). Now a horse would likely get me anything I wanted.
Mikel
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"I looked at the Tapco website(thanks for the update vbrtrmn) and found that their double hook trigger group is not supposed to fit in an S12. With a little work, it does but I DO NOT RECOMMEND IT!!!"
I stand corrected, here is the actual wording from the Tapco website FAQ page.....
"Will the TAPCO double hook trigger groups fit in a Saiga .223?"
"No."
I'm emailing Tapco about the S12 now.
Mikel
UPDATE:
From TAPCO...."Unfortunately it will not fit in the Saiga 12 either. The trigger groups
don't fit in an of the saigas that are not converted. "
I replied that I am doing a conversion...
"The double hook trigger group will work on the converted saigas. "
Not sure why he might think I was interested in one if I waasn't doing a conversion, but hey....
Asked about getting a replacement Disconnector but haven't heard back yet.
Thanks for the replies guys, it all may have just been a bad part issue.
Mikel
My lil girl all growns up...
in Saiga-12
Posted
Very nice.