bamabound
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Posts posted by bamabound
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Be careful with a low powered recoil spring if you decide to shoot some slugs or other magnum loads. I know someone who got a nick in their forehead from doing that and the dust cover having flown off and smacked him. If you can't turn the gas down enough using the plug, you should keep the original front spring handy to swap out whenever using higher powered loads.
Good advise, folks!
I will change springs when shooting high brass or slugs. I am just overjoyed to have it cycle with low brass. My shoulder is pleased too!
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I have been following everyone's advice and suggestions on getting the 12 to work with low brass. The only thing I did not do was drill the gas port holes bigger. But the thing that made it finally work was replacing the recoil spring. I bought the #1 and #2 from CSS, not knowing which would work. They both work and it will almost eject low brass on the #1 setting on the gas plug.
So, if you are having trouble with low brass not cycling, a easy fix might be to replace the recoil spring
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Try ordering a special build from Kimber! 7 months and never an email until it finally shipped. But, like the man said it was worth the wait! The one thing I am fascinated by and fully support is all the small businesses that have been created from a Russian product. Irony!!
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DO NOT MIX FIRE CONTROL PARTS! Re shape the hammer to clear the bolt like the original. AK's have a much smaller bolt than a S-12, so flatten the hammer face accordingly. Have you fired a couple hundred high brass rounds to break the gun in? If not then do so immediately.
OK! Thanks
I have fired about 150, with 30 being low brass.
Would you bore out the gas ports or shoot the brass first?
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Hard to tell whether you have mechanical bolt(and or hammer/spring) problem from your posts but we get the light load cycling question all the time.
There is a basic summary of how to make light loads cycle at
http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=45743
To Answer your question directly about the TwisterPuc, If you lack complete cycling the TwisterPuc wont solve the problem by itself. The TwisterPuc works mostly by keeping the Gas Tube clean. We do have them in different configs for light vs heavy loads, but that has more to do with keeping the cycling rapid and matching the amount of initial Gas (air) volume before ignition. Once you get things tuned, the TwisterPuc will give you a LOT more rounds before failure due to gas tube fouling.
About the comment to replace the hammer spring, we get a lot problems with the OEM hammer springs and there are some very good aftermarket spings out there so replacing it is always a good idea. As the above referred post states, one trick is the recoil spring Strength which is SO simple to replace.
Of course as Waffen S has pointed out if your geometry is messed up everything else is academic
Thank you for the info.
I am putting the stock hammer back in and reshaped the conversion hammer. let's see if either works.
I also have a new hammer spring, but I don't think that is the culprit.
I should have checked the size of the ports when I had the gas block apart, but live and learn.
The recoil spring will be the next adventure if none of the above works.
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Here are two more shots
Thanks for the photos. All three of your ports are now visible...Kudos!
I see two major issues immediately. The geometry of your hammer, and the size of your ports. You need to increase port size to 3/32".
You also appear to have a "crimp" in your receiver which may be restricting the bolt carrier from moving efficiently.
Thanks
Do I need to flatten the hammer? And where on the receiver do you see a crimp? Is it on the rails?
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What kind of forearm if any are you running? How does the gun hand cycle?
Stock forearm and cycles by hand just fine. However if I impede the the forward movement it hangs up 3/4" from going completely forward.
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Here are two more shots
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Here is the bolt assembly
And here is the trigger
And here are the ports
I can take a bunch more off the trigger, but I want to not take off too much and mess with the inertia thing.
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Evening all,
My S12 is still not cycling low brass and am wondering about the physics of various pucks (I'm watching hockey and this popped into my brain cell)
I have polished and ground down the bolt and feed ramps and trigger. I have uncovered all of the holes in the barrel (1 was completely covered-it has three now, but I didn't increase the size). It throws high brass about 10 feet and acts stupid with low brass. The bolt lacks about 3/4" in its rearward travel in being successful in cycling.
So... do certain pucks have different masses to force the piston rearward?
How does the twister puck work or help?
And, is the #2 setting the correct setting for low brass?
Thanks to all for the tutorials!!
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Will work on it tomorrow.
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Range Report
Ordered new spring from CSS, but the bending the leg of the spring works.
Found a box of high brass, mag shells and went to the range and the 12 cycled just fine. The grinding and polishing did not help with low brass ammo.
However after shooting the box of mags and then going back to the low brass, it seemed to have helped the cycling. The shells ALMOST made it out before being smashed by the bolt.
So...will work on the blocked holes per JeffD's work http://forum.saiga-1...showtopic=33836
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Spent a few minutes more observing and grinding with fine sand paper. I am working the action by hand with and with out the spring. It is beginning to smoothly move with a little effort. However, every once in a while it jams up tight and I can't move the bolt forward at all. And the problem is....the spring walks under the disconector and won't allow the hammer to move down as the bolt travels over it.
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Thanks for the pics
The hammer is definetly part of the problem. It's height is impeding the forward movement. I did notice putting this bolt in the 12 was difficult. I can do the x39 with my eyes closed
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Ok, do this test for me please.
Pull the bolt all the way back and SLOWLY ease it forward. If you get half way closed and then the bolt stops on its own, your hammer it too large.
Your hammer needs to be big enough that with the trigger pulled, the bolt carrier will push it down into the disconnector. just an FYI.
YIKES!
Did your test and...
With the trigger pulled, and hammer on the disconnector, the bolt WON"T go forward. It is time to measure original trig and new trig. And grind a bit.
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I have a pic of the one visiable hole but it is too big to upload.
We used to use photobucket to load pics, but that isn't working.
Will try later with different settings on cam.
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Here is a pic of two pics in the unseen holes
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First these guns tend to be under-gassed, just because you have three ports does not guarantee that they are the correct size .093". Second, you should be able to see all ports with the gas plug removed if not I would remove the gas block and open up the hole to expose the ports. How does the gun hand cycle? Is it binding? If so you may need to deck the height of both the hammer and bottom of bolt carrier to reduce drag. I would start by making sure the gas ports are the correct size and fully visible, it sounds like your gun hardly cycles at all which is a pretty good sign it is under-gassed. Shooting high brass and slugs will never fix a under-gassed gun, all that does smooth out problem areas that your polishing should take care of. Also how do the sides of the fired hulls look? Do you have drag marks? If so the extractor fix will really help. Check out the posts they may help.
http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=51183
http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=51368&st=0&p=482033&fromsearch=1entry482033
Thank you for the links.
I've read so much I have forgotten where to find what I need.
I will check the hammer (grind a bit, polish a bit) and check gas hole sizes.
Hand cycles just fine. Throughs shells a good ways.
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Did you grind the conversion hammer to the same specs as the original. It could be a clearance problem.
Hmmmm! Sure didn't. Will check
Thanks
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Thanks
Took it apart tonight to check to make sure the 3 ports are open and they are.
How snug a fit does the puck have to be?
Is gas supposed to escape around the puck and push the piston rearward or does just the movement of the puck striking the piston the only force affecting the piston and bolt to move?
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Hey folks, Took my 12 to the range and was disappointed/frustrated. It has 3 ports and I can kinda see 1 1/2 of them but can get a lock pic in the hidden one so I am assuming it is partially open. Polished everything, tromix parts.
It worked with high brass when it was unconverted, so...
Today I had only low brass and it would not eject at all. On #2 the bolt would almost get completely open, then hang. On #1 setting the bolt was completely closed and hardly began its cycle.
Will hit the ammo store tomorrow for some high brass and try again.
Thoughts?
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how about 1951
It's been lucky for me for close to 60 years
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Ironwood has some suggestions on finishing that I may try. I have never used Watco Exterior Wood Finish.
http://www.ironwooddesigns.com/IWDsite/IWDfinish.html
I have a 870 express 20 ga. I need to refinsh also so maybe I can compare and now that I know how to send pics I can share.
Thanks for the info
Thom
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What is the wood on yours? How did you finish it?
I got the Russian laminate AKM stock set in our Want To Sell Section from forum member Tokarz1.
They can be found elsewhere on the net, or US made by BattleriffleG3 through Dinzags website.
Post a Want to buy add in the private sales section & you are sure to get some options quickly.
Finishing the way I did it takes about two weeks. This is how I did it:
Sand it down to bare wood, then with 500 grit.
Then 1 heavy coat Minwax Red Mahogany stain, don't wipe off. Let dry 1 day.
LIGHTLY wipe off excess.
Then 1 more heavy coat Minwax Red Mahogany stain, don't wipe off, let dry 1 week.
LIGHTLY buff with .0000 steel wool.
Then 1 heavy coat Minwax oil based Spar urethane out door high gloss spray varnish.
Let dry at least 1 week before handling.
Gas fixer no help, what now,
in Saiga-12
Posted