Cryogaijin
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Posts posted by Cryogaijin
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Look at the post above yours. That is (one of) the reasons they AREN'T used. Next up would be that anesthesia takes longer to go into effect than a Hot Lead Injection. Finally the subjectivity of any "chemical." Consider that not everyone reacts the same.
So no, I can't give you an example of a tranquilizer gun killing an intruder, but I can provide you with a metric shitton of examples of professional, certified anesthesiologists doing so in perfectly controlled situations.
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Knowledgable on the subject eh? lol, who the fuck uses "tranq guns" for defense?
No one, for the reasons I stated. My coworkers watched too many wildlife videos.
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My Witness 10mm with 2 spare mags in a belt holder, my s12 with 2x md20 drums and 1x 12rd promag drum, my s.308 for mid-range, and 30-06 hunting rifle for anything requiring accuracy.
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In recent conversations with my co-minions at work, several people have expressed interest in heading out to the gun range and getting the basics of gun safety and marksmanship from me. They've also expressed an interest in getting a defensive weapon, but only "less than lethal" defensive weapons.
Now I'm fairly knowledgeable about the subject, and I pointed out that some "less than lethal" weapons are actually more likely to kill your target than popping 'em with a handgun (Tranq guns are notorious for this.) I further explain that in a defensive situation where a civil suit crops up against the defensive shooter, they are generally in for MUCH larger liability if the person survives than if they are killed in the commission of their crime.
Generally the people that get this far in the conversation suddenly have a kneejerk "he must not know WTF he is talking about" at about this point. Is the concept so hard? I mean this is up here in Alaska, not California or soviet nauJerzistan.
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There is a luck component. The last 25 I put through my 16.5" saiga all fell into one ragged hole about 1.5" across. Now I was benched down with sandbags, but that is still damn nice. Doubt I could repeat it.
OTOH my hunting rifle will do that at 300 yards in windless conditions.
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Ehh, nearly year old article with some baseless conjecture. The UN has no right or even ability to "police" within a sovereign country, and I don't see the US loosing its sovereignty any time soon. The "unique marking" and country code is TBH a non issue, as nearly every new firearm already has a serial number. (and much ammo already has that data on its headstamp.) Now what wasn't clear in the article was if this law was supposed to apply to "Legacy" or "Curio and Relic" firearms. If so, then to hell with 'em. Otherwise I see it as a non-issue.
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I hate getting as off topic as we are, but I have to respond a bit to the cries of "Anti-LEO" sentiment.
The situation of LEO and Citizen interaction is far more complex than we really have time for in a venue like this forum. To start off with, the vast majority of police/citizen interaction is trivial and positive. This involves things like simply being a visible presence, chatting with people, and the like. This happens often, and is usually completely forgotten quickly due to being so mundane. The next most common citizen/police interaction are trivial things like traffic stops which put someone on the defensive. For example, I was stopped about 8 months ago for a burnt out tail light. (I had no idea it was burned out.) Coincidentally enough, that was the same day I bought my s12, which was sitting on the back seat (in its box) of my car. The officer was cooly professional, but a bit aloof and haughty. He gave me a "fixit ticket" but did deign to look over my car to make sure no other lights were out. All in all it was a fairly negative interaction, and because it had that initial surge of adrenalin attached to the pullover, I'll remember it with much more detail and for far longer than any of my more positive interactions.
The situation is further complicated in that the media and police departments themselves treat the police as a Protected Class. It is not uncommon for police to be told that they would rather 10 citizens (or whatever) die before one cop does. (In other words, go into dangerous situations only when you have overwhelming supperiority) This can help set up an "us vs them" mentality that reflects negatively on the profession as a whole. Further, many officers view people as "potential criminals" rather than "innocents in need of our protection. . . until proven guilty." It is that mentality and the network that leads to it that results in advice like that put forth in this video:
http://youtu.be/6wXkI4t7nuc WATCH this video.
Now those of us that are blessed to be working with the police fairly often, as I am at work (Graves in a hotel), I know the vast majority of police I deal with are fairly nice people who got into the job from a sense of wanting to use their strength and talents to protect and serve the population as a whole. I demonstrate my respect for them by doing as complete a job as possible preparing for what they need when they come on property. (preparing keys without being asked, noting time chops on our security of incidents, giving exhaustively complete and accurate descriptions) They, in turn, show their respect by keeping me better informed than they would just some random citizen. They recognize that as a professional I am accountable for the property I work at, and need to be able to report to my superiors in the same level of detail I give to them.
TL:DNR: Basic psychology tends to make people dislike people in authority, through no real fault of their own. This can be eliminated partially by being approachable and friendly.
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Would definately be interesting to see other people's responses to those at the range. People get weirded out enough by my s12 and especially s.308 so having an ar-15alike in 12 gauge would provoke some serious eyebrow raising.
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Awesome, Tony! Any idea what the retail will be on 'em? and any idea for Tromix designs?
How's the trigger?
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How low does something need to be voted before it gets nuked?
Oh, and Judge Dredd? Check out nutnfancy's KSG vs S12 video. How are we supposed to take you seriously when you get one of the thesis points wrong in your OP?
BTW, the KSG seems like it would fit your needs better than a S12
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And there, clear as day on the tiny bit of steel still visible on it "Saiga 12"
So there you have it. Jayne's very favorite gun, with Extreme Sentimental Value, Vera, the Best Gun Made By Man. . . is a Saiga 12.
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I'd get one for certain. My primary hunting rifle is an aught six, and I like it just a hair more than the .308. And I have all the reloading dies and such. . .
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Carolina Shooter Supply should be on that list as well. AIM Surplus as well, in my opinion.
Never dealt with them. From what I've heard on the forums, I'd probably like 'em.
What amazes me, honestly, is the difference between the small Arms shops and the small Computer shops.
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. . . every American business were as quick, reliable, friendly, and reasonably priced as Dinzag, MDarms, and MAA. Living in Alaska as I do, I have been purchasing bits and bobs off the 'net longer than Paypal or Amazon has been around. I've had problems here and there, and I've had good stories here and there, but dealing with the small vendors here is an outright pleasure.
People can say what they will about gun-owners, or merchants of death (I'm looking at you, Brian, Mike!) but if every American business were run in the manner of Dinzag or MDarms things would be looking a lot better in this country.
I am quite pleased.
Now I just have to figure out what stock and foregrip to put on my s12. . .
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Sounds like the order I just received. 2 drums, the pistol grip, V-plug, and gas puck.
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Both orders I put through there shipped the next day.
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Dinzag does excellent work. Between Dinzag and MDarms, you have virtually everything you'll need.
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The only reason to not trust a s12 is if you haven't worked with it enough.
Some people will say that you shouldn't buy a firearm that isn't 100% from the factory, but the fact of the matter is that nothing is 100% perfect 100% of the time. That does not mean that it cannot be made to be the next best thing to perfect. Don't settle for anything less. These guns are great for tinkering, so tinker until it is perfect.
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Most of the conversion FAQs and guides tend to gloss over reattachment of the final stock. I'm curious what the various techniques and options are. I'm looking to do a s12 conversion within the next month, and want some sort of folding stock (Ideally an underfolder, but a sidefold will work if I can't find a good underfolder for it.)
So, any advice?
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I got my .308 first, largely because I wanted something that'd go through a class II vest.
The bug bit me hard, and I ended up putting about $600 into the gun that originally cost me $450.
Last october I finally got the s12. . . and yesterday I bought 2 md-20 drums for it. (haven't gotten around to the conversion yet. Probably in a month.)
I voted s12 due to the prices raising faster on those than the .308.
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I have a standard russian steel quick release scope mount for mine, and while heavy, it is nice and solid.
As for what you need, you need only the scope mount, and the scope+rings+mounting tools.
The mount doesn't require any tools to lock into place, it slips on and has a tightening lever. (At least the russian quick-release one does) YMMV with other mounts.
Just mount the scope to the rail, and you're set. Be sure to tighten everything down sufficiently though, as a .308 has enough recoil to it to knock a poorly fastened scope off its zero.
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Why would a driver be upset at having to deliver to you? I mean seriously, the couple times I've dealt with y'all you've been great. Hopefully it isn't an "OMFG!! Gunstore!! Scareey!!" issue.
Yanno, I bet the s12s are just sleeping of a Corky's coma.
Mmmmm Corkys.
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So. . . I'm looking for stocks for a s12, and ideally pictures of S12s with the stocks on 'em.
Have you even looked around here a little bit?
Every subforum has a stickied picture thread. The nice thing about Saigas is that the same stock fits all of them, so you can look through ALL the different picture threads for "the right stock".
Here's the S12 thread to get you started: Picture Post, Lets see your Saiga 12! - Saiga-12.com
Been around for a year and a half, including converting my .308 based on one of the faqs here. So. . . yes? Issue I have with the general photo threads is that often there isn't a lot of information about what was done. If someone shoehorned an underfolder from a different gun system in, it isn't really all that useful for me with limited space and tools. Thus asking.
Paulski: That is indeed a pretty s12, and if I were planning on doing something where weight and size weren't as much of an issue, I would seriously look into comissioning one of the members here to make some furniture for me. But as I said in the OP, I'm considering making this a pack-gun, which leaves out heavy/long wood furniture.
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After having my s.308 for a year and a half, and having done a very successful conversion, I finally got my s12. I'm mostly wanting it as a "for fun" gun, though if I can get it short enough, I might end up making it a pack gun.
So. . . I'm looking for stocks for a s12, and ideally pictures of S12s with the stocks on 'em. Ideally I'm looking for an underfolder, but side or topfolders would be useful. Aside from that. . . any other stock that is useful/interesting on converted s12s.
Any experiences with mounting or using these stocks would be appreciated.
Am I the only one here who hates the concept of "Less than lethal&
in General Discussion - Any topic is welcome here!!!
Posted
And maybe you need to get your head out of your ass and read what I actually wrote rather than claiming words I did not actually type. "Targets" and "Intruders" are different. The area where tranq guns are used (mostly by naturalists) they rightfully have a bad reputation for EXACTLY THE REASONS LISTED. WHICH IS WHY THEY ARE NOT USED ON HUMANS.
That was my coworker's idea of an ideal home defense weapon, not mine.
I made up nothing. Again, get your head out of your ass. I never said they were used in self-defense situations, merely that they tended to kill their targets often. They're finicky even in areas where the target's weight can be reasonably guessed, are not quick, and do not act the same on every target. Are you a vetrinarian that has experience using them? Game warden? Anesthesiologist? Do you in fact have ANYTHING to refute that using a tranquilizer gun as a defensive arm is a bad idea? No? Well, your hat is getting your hair brown and stinky.