DNR
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Posts posted by DNR
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its catching on the 3 gun range here - but it is most expensive about $700 to $800 for a shotgun. It is also still hard to find - gun shops tell us - "better order it or it goes fast".
Price was $600 to $700 about a year ago, now I see $700 to $800 for same.
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given the only choice 1 - 20 rounder or 2- 5 round mags - you take the 2 mags in case one breaks. one md20 could fail...
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yea kind of a difference between a 'rig' or a 'molle'' vest. A rig is stripped down and does not hold SAPI or ESAPI plates - like Corbin's or Jpanzer's. the rig is more comfortable. The Molle' I use holds 2 - 13"x10" SAPI plates as well as the same gear your 'rig' can hold. If you don't plan on buying armor plates - you buy the rig. I train and shoot 3 gun with a molle' with the SAPI plates inserted, not much of a handicap. Since you upgrade to a rig - now you can remove the drop leg holster and mount the pistol on your chest above the mag pouches.
Check - Opsgear.com
MOLLE Quick Release Plate Carrier
the interior lining is important - it has to be mesh, breathable material, the shoulder straps padded, cummer bund, quick release (ya near water)
Anything that you can fit on a rig - you can fit on a molle'. Nice plus - emergency drag handle on the back so someone can pick ya up and drag ya out of fire.
Then get the proper undershirt - these shirts were made to be worn with molle' vests. Cotton t-shirt center - stronger cotton sleeves, with padded shoulders and pockets -
TRU Combat Shirt
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I saw MississippiAutoarms.com renting those thread dies
Saiga 12 Thread Kit - M22x.75 - Rental (Model: S12TDH)
Rental M22x.75 Die & Die Stock Handler Week Rental for use on the Saiga 12 Shotgun. Rates :$60 for one week.
http://www.mississippiautoarms.com/saiga-12-thread-kit-m22x75-rental-p-485.html
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buckshot was patterning about 12" at about 25ft, as most shotguns do. Slugs are grouping good - inches from each other -but shot very low for me out of the box at 50 ft.
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mine
not converted yet. Tapco stock and SAW grip, UTG quad rail forearm, MAA barrel shroud, Sightmark RDS (waiting on better sightmark RDS) I use the ProMag 20 round drums.
I do 3 gun matches in Port Huron Mi
Tapco Stock and pistol grip kit - $65
MAA barrel shroud - $99
UTG quad rail forearm, with short and long top rail choice - $99
ProMag 20 - $89 each
Saiga 12 - $689 (last price check at gun show - up to $800 now)
Sightmark RDS - $39, going to get better one $99
Not shown - flashlight/strobe on forearm
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using a pipe cutter will result in a heavy burr on the inside of the barrel so you WILL have to ream it.
some places you can rent the threader.
http://www.mississippiautoarms.com/saiga-12-thread-kit-m22x75-rental-p-485.html
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Get the more expensive sightmark - $119 or $99 on sale - it has a bigger METAL shroud to protect the lens. The cheaper sightmarks $45 - $39 has a plastic cover on the rear part of the sight - it can break off if dropped or bumped. The sightmark sight works - just get the beefier one.
Dunhams has them on sale for $99 your choice if you want QD or not
http://www.dunhamssp...-shot-qd-sight/
Note - the rear part of the sight - the top piece that covers the lighting part - is still plastic, but now you have more metal to protect it
Broke this bitch -
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UTG quad rail allows co-witness of iron sights.
How about 45 degree angle mounts?
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not sure how RIMMED rounds like the 12ga will stack next to each other on a double stack...
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how about a forearm quad rail system - you can mount a RDS to a short or long top rail. UTG.
UTG gives you both a short and long top rail to chose from. The long rail would almost reach as far back as your H&K rear sight.
Short rail allows the top cover to be removed.
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Pro-Mags work fine. The pro mag 20 just needed a little plastic shaved off with a razor (or sharp knife) about a 1/16th of an inch on the sides - leave the front catch along (its a metal insert anyways)
It is excess plastic on the back half of the mouth of the magazine, it prevents the magazine from clicking in the rear part. The front nub catches on the front of the mag well just fine.
If you 'press-fit' the plastic magazine you might see where the metal of the magwell marked the area of plastic that needs to be trimmed. I don't have my mags here so I can't upload a photo of it. But I have 2 ProMag 20s and they work fine. I read the same instructions. lol
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meh you can get a M4 tube kit for a Saiga 12. How much of the components interchange between the VEPR and the Saiga 12?
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I got my Saiga 12 for 3 Gun Matches. I do have a firearm for homedefense - it is more portable, easier to manipulate (ie the wife has to use it too), and kills just as dead as a 12 gauge.
I also had experience in tactical weapons in LE - the pump shotgun is still the most effective home defense gun if you can use it. The Saiga 12 to me as the same 'black gun' distinction as my AR15. If someone breaks in to my house, I know I am skilled enough to use a pistol to fix this. Some of us are aware of the legal ramifications of excessive force - criminal and civil - yes, criminals sue people who shot them. Avoid dime shot, dragons breath, and fleshettes - because a jury would likely agree with the criminal invader - you used excessive force to stop him and reward him with more hard earned money than if he stole your tv and pawned it. All the lawyer for the shot home invader has to do is show the jury your buffed up Saiga 12 with a MD20
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I know it was Saiga Related - but what about the bolt stop wearing out quickly as well, check for wear?
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what would I do with 250 rounds of ammo I can't fit in my mag!
Get 4 - 10 rounders for the price of one MD Arms drum and run anything you like or any combination of shells in one mag with a TAC-47 autoplug. You can also take advantage of the lower pricing on Euro shells which from what I've seen are always cheaper than the same round in a US shell and they run fine. Just another possibility...personal preference matters of course but I don't know of anyone who runs drum mags exclusively.
hey you know - since AR15 tactical shooting is about mag changes, I have no problem with 4- 10 round mags. Anytime I can swap a mag and not have to feed shells one at a time - its a good thing.
So - do those 10 round mags fit a Molle' pouch somewhere?
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yea the confusion was my part - I was trying to 'recall' the experience - so I had to re-do it all over again to figure out I was misinforming the measurement. so when in doubt use photos so everyone else can see too .
The list already saved me some money - I was going to check out RIO 2 3/4 on sale - I won't bother as the chart for MD20 says its a no-go.
what would I do with 250 rounds of ammo I can't fit in my mag!
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I use the FAB MagWell grip on the AR15, you'll find that position for gripping the AR puts it perfecting in the center of gravity, you can really manipulate the weapon well with the magwell grip.
With the Drum on the Saiga - not possible to do this. I can do this grip with the factory mag and of course the banana style mags.
I agree - if you get FTF due to this grip, you got mag problems that will happen anyways - flop.
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The real issue is the steel case - they do not expand like brass case to seal the chamber. So you get all this carbon crap in the chamber. If you load a brass cased round after firing a lot of steel case - the brass case will get stuck to all the carbon crap in the chamber after expanding due to firing.
It is not lacquer - that was the old stuff. As far as corrosive - you have to consider the cheap cost of the rounds and who makes it - quality might not be job #1.
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I measured - want a photo of it?
Here is the Duplek unfired measuring 2 1/2th..When I held a Dupleks up to a US made round , it was actually a quarter inch difference - very noticeable - so I measured with a ruler.
Really unfired 12 gauge shells are about 2 and quarter inches, when fired, the crimp rolls out to make 2 3/4ths total length of the shell.Winchester slugs measured 2 and quarter inches before firing, same as Remington shell - 2 and quarter inches with little variations - 1/32, 1/16th.
The Dupleks Monolit 28 UNFIRED is already 2 1/2ths long - WITH those quality control issues of being 1/8th or 1/16th longer than 2 1/2" .The duplek shell marked "2 3/4" is not 2 and quarter inches UNFIRED like Winchester and Remington.
The Pro-Mag expected that you will be putting UNFIRED shells into your drum rated '2 3/4th inch shells' - that were supposed to at unfired length of about 2 and quarter inches - NOT fired shells that measure 2 1/2ths with the crimp rolled out (more or less)
I also measured the ProMag Drum - the black round follower was taken out and measured - it was about 2 and a quarter inches - about the same size as a US made 12 gauge shell. The follower has about .5th of an inch of play. The actual opening inside the drum is almost 2 and 3/4ths of an inch. I did not use a micrometer or lab grade ruler - so give or take 1/32 of an inch. The Drum allows for out of spec ammunition - as long as it is between 2 and quarter inches and 2 1/2ths of an inch.So ProMag drums for 2 3/4 were meant to feed unfired shells that measure about 2 and a quarter.
If you want to use Dupleks 28 "2 3/4" - treat it like a 3" round - don't feed it in mags that say "2 3/4" shells.
I try to explain my POV, but it will always be subjective - "oh but it worked for me!"
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well picked up the Tapco plastic stuff - fitted with no problems to the non-converted Saiga 12 in minutes. For $64 I thought I give it a try.
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thats dram for powder -
"Some common sizes that you will see are 2 ¾ and 3. You may also find 2 ½ through 3 ¾. The higher the number of dram, the faster the shot travels. This also means that, the higher the number, the harder the gun will kick."
Since the FTE was with one person, I would check that you are holding the Saiga firmly - I notice people that hold the Saiga with a loose grip tend to cause FTE and FTFeed. (stove pipe, double stacked)
Tannite burns if you nick it, if you make a direct hit, you get a bigger explosion and no flameover. Avoid fireworks for lulz bad idea...
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spread sheet worked for me -
FIXED
I input :
MD20 accepts 2.25" shells, This is the length of a US made 12 gauge shell (Winchester, Remington) UNFIRED.
Duplek 28 marked 2 3/4" is already 2 1/2ths of a inch UNFIRED. Treat like a 3" shell.
I input:
duplex 32 as I measured 2 7/8" on 4 boxes. This was UNFIRED LENGTH - should be 2.25th of a inch UNFIRED to work in MD20/ProMag 20.
It is b.s. to claim that 2 7/8" is a european measure for 2 3/4" - they print on the box 2 3/4". That is sloppy tolerances.
to note the UNFIRED 2 1/2" shells will feed via factory 5 rnd mag, and cycle ok.
Newbie from MI!
in Saiga-12
Posted
hey man - PM me when you want to get a few guys to go out to Blue Water Sportsmen's - we'll set up some drills. I am member there - passed the NRA RSO class. 200 yard card. I can certify anyone for the 200 yard range ; )