Oldwheat 0 Posted December 19, 2004 Report Share Posted December 19, 2004 (edited) ..This phenomenon has been bugging me & I think I have come up with a partial, or hopefully, complete fix.....The problem is caused by the magazine follower pressing the shell up against the bottom of the bolt which over a period of time ( sometimes a very short time) squeezes the shell into an oval shape which will not feed!....A major concern to my way of thinking if you are going to leave a loaded mag in your gun for an extended period.....The best solution would be a complete redesign of the mag feeding setup so the above mentioned situation does not occur...Not going to happen anytime soon I fear.... ......The solution that I've come up with is by simply shortening the magazine spring to relieve the excess pressure.....I cut a mag spring in half & rebent the bottom of the spring to fit the base plate...Relieves the spring pressure considerably & still functions reliably....At least I put a box of shells thru it this afternoon without a boggle, well, one 'stovepipe' on the last round but that happened before I altered the mag also ... ....It is now also possible to fit 6 rounds in a 5 round mag but it needs just a tad more clearance to cycle....Would probably need a new, slimmer follower setup to properly function...... ....If anyone else attempts this tweak, I would suggest shortening the spring a little at a time & testing as spring pressure coud vary from mag to mag... ....This would be a good project for an after market manufacturer...Perhaps making a drop-in unit with a new follower, base plate & constant pressure spring....Or even better, make a redisgned magazine that holds more rounds......... Edited December 19, 2004 by Oldwheat Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted December 20, 2004 Report Share Posted December 20, 2004 i trust your judgement fully. however, I want to reitterate that like you said, trimming mag springs should be done in SMALL amounts. I prefer to not touch them myself, but I can see with these particular guns how there might be a discrepacy in the optimum spring length. for sure. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
G O B 3,516 Posted December 20, 2004 Report Share Posted December 20, 2004 I have been thinking on this subject. If you leave a mag in the S-12 it would be best to use a BHO (either the factory type or the notched safty lever)and leave the bolt OPEN untill use! This will keep the rounds round and let you know that the bolt has cycled . If there is any chance of anyone other than yourself and/or trusted spouse handling the weapon it should not be loaded anyhow. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
use2b 0 Posted December 21, 2004 Report Share Posted December 21, 2004 this is my fix. I use Rem 3" mag OO Buck [ chambered] and my top round is a clear S&B OO buck with the front reinforced with JB Quick. this is not crimped and it all flies out the front just fine Quote Link to post Share on other sites
avatar 4 Posted December 22, 2004 Report Share Posted December 22, 2004 (edited) Isn't there pressure on the rounds underneath the top one that would cause the second one down to oval or is the force pretty much spread over the rest in the mag? use2b, how long have you let a loaded mag set in there? The JB sounds like a good idea if it works. I wouldn't shorten the mag springs -- you might shorten the useable life of the mag. Edited December 22, 2004 by avatar Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TonyRumore 1,332 Posted December 22, 2004 Report Share Posted December 22, 2004 At first, I thought the stoppage was caused by the TOP of the shell getting deformed, but it is actually the BOTTOM of the shell that gets hung up on the barrel root when feeding. I simply cut a feed ramp in the bottom of the barrel root and it cured the problem. Tony Rumore Tromix Corp Quote Link to post Share on other sites
use2b 0 Posted December 22, 2004 Report Share Posted December 22, 2004 At first, I thought the stoppage was caused by the TOP of the shell getting deformed, but it is actually the BOTTOM of the shell that gets hung up on the barrel root when feeding. I simply cut a feed ramp in the bottom of the barrel root and it cured the problem. Tony Rumore Tromix Corp Tony could you post a picture or elaborate on just what you did? avatar - I have kept mine loaded for about a year and there is still a slight deformation in my JB fix , but it chambers and fires every time. I am most interested in what Tony has done because a combination of all of our ideas may completely solve this. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
use2b 0 Posted December 22, 2004 Report Share Posted December 22, 2004 Has anyone here tried the Bi-metal cased 12 gauge ammo from Russia in a Saiga? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TonyRumore 1,332 Posted December 22, 2004 Report Share Posted December 22, 2004 I'll try and post a pic tomorrow. I already left the shop or I would do it tonight. P.S. I got the G3 sights on the shorty today........its cool. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Oldwheat 0 Posted December 22, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 22, 2004 (edited) .....Well , I'm no John Browning, but I think what is really called for here is a completely redesigned magazine that feeds on a more horizontal plane so that the shell doesn't make contact with the bolt at all.....I don't believe that this would be anywhere impossible to pull off by some enterprising 'after market' manufacturer... ..It would no doubt require some sort of built in feed ramp as per my attachment & the reworking of the guns ramp that Tony suggests would no doubt prove very useful as well..... While they are at it, it might as well be a 10 rounder (It is illegal to IMPORT mags over 5 rounds according to EAA ) but I would be well satistied with 5 rounders that function & load well............... BTW: Where can you find the bi-metal stuff? If it does the trick it would sure be a helluva lot simpler. (Still don't like the concept of the rounds pressing against the bolt tho. )...... Edited December 22, 2004 by Oldwheat Quote Link to post Share on other sites
use2b 0 Posted December 23, 2004 Report Share Posted December 23, 2004 (edited) Oldwheat - I saw the Bimetal 12 ammo offered last month by the case but once again I do not remember just where it was. I do know that it was discounted to members as they call it the " Low Ball Price " does anyone else get a magazine every now and then that offers a Low Ball Price to members? I did a search and came up with nothing on Google that would lead me to them. If I run across it again I will post. edited because i am still on the hunt and i know it is out there. wish i was interested when i saw it last. however i did find this- and it shows a saiga shotgun - .410 gauge http://www.ammunitionstore.com/Images/Ammo/A034.4.htm Edited December 23, 2004 by use2b Quote Link to post Share on other sites
use2b 0 Posted December 23, 2004 Report Share Posted December 23, 2004 (edited) found some in BB which would work for me as the top round in the mag. I was wrong on the bimetal thing - it is zinc plated steel case [ scratching my head ] i guess that would be bimetal? EDIT # 8 ---- I just ordered 60 rounds from SPORTSMANS GUIDE This will now be my top round in the mag , yet the rest and the chamberd round will still be the Rem 3" mag OO. I will test about 10 rounds and let you guys know in about a week or so what i think. http://www.sportsmansguide.com/cb/cb.asp?a=163181 http://www.ammunitionstore.com/pricelist_ammo4.htm#12 they have it here http://www.midwayusa.com/rewriteabrowse/6/9486/653***9217*** Got this from another board ---- so i will copy and paste your best bet, taking into account affordability and reliability, is the BARNAUL AMMUNITION made in RUSSIA. its designed for the SAIGA line of arms, and says so on the box. made with ZINC PLATED STEEL CASES at the JSC-BARNAUL MACHINE TOOL PLANT under american supervision and ISO9000 standards. i have used the 12 gauge, and the .410 gauge personaly, and we do a brisk amount of buisness selling them here at the shop. most places carry them, or can order them. CHEAPER THAN DIRT, SPORTSMANS GUIDE, etc... stock and sell them. these are full length, all metal constuction, one piece hulls. good luck. best regards, mike. Edited December 23, 2004 by use2b Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Oldwheat 0 Posted December 24, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 24, 2004 ...Are those lead or steel BB's???........I think I'll order some for myself.................................... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
G O B 3,516 Posted December 25, 2004 Report Share Posted December 25, 2004 I have looking for barnul steel hull for 2 years-they are listed several places but are always "on backorder". If anyone actually aquires any SPREAD THE WORD! I am shure we will all get some! The only ones that seem to be available are the.410! G O B Quote Link to post Share on other sites
use2b 0 Posted December 25, 2004 Report Share Posted December 25, 2004 (edited) ...Are those lead or steel BB's???........I think I'll order some for myself.................................... They are lead - BB is the size of the shot. I already have a tracking number and 60 rounds are on the way. these were made especially for the saiga and are new production UPS delivery is scheduled for Thursday Dec 30th From Sportsmens Guide 1. 60 rds. Barnaul 12-ga. BB Shells Product: WX2-89203 You must be 18 years of age to purchase this item. In Stock. Quantity: 1, Unit Price: $21.47, Total Price: $21.47 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Payment Information: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Merchandise Total: $21.47 Shipping and Handling: $7.99 Shipping Method: [Ground] Package Protection: $0.99 ---------------------------------------------==============----------- Grand Total: $30.45 Edited December 25, 2004 by use2b Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted December 25, 2004 Report Share Posted December 25, 2004 take a sabot 12 gauge hollow point, put a hardened machine screw into the hollow point. end of story...and legal. BOO HOO you anti-gun idiots Quote Link to post Share on other sites
CrazyJ 0 Posted December 27, 2004 Report Share Posted December 27, 2004 How reliably does it feed with the weakened magazine spring? How many rounds did you run through with the modified spring? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Oldwheat 0 Posted December 27, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 27, 2004 .......I've put 50> rounds thru since I shortened the spring .....Had a stovepipe on the last round a couple of times but had them before also.....In other words, so far, so good ..................... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
use2b 0 Posted December 27, 2004 Report Share Posted December 27, 2004 .......I've put 50> rounds thru since I shortened the spring .....Had a stovepipe on the last round a couple of times but had them before also.....In other words, so far, so good ..................... slightly port and polish your gas system = no more stovepipes Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Oldwheat 0 Posted December 27, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 27, 2004 ....Forgot to mention that these were mostly game loads @ the #1 setting, so not entirely unexpected .......................... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Oldwheat 0 Posted January 4, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 4, 2005 (edited) .....Update: To date, I have had no failure to feed with the lightened spring. However, it would seem prudent to polish the sides of the follower to reduce friction & perhaps apply some sort of dry lubricant such as Brownell's 'Action Magic' to ensure it's free travel.......Shell deformation has been minimal over the period of several weeks of having the mag inserted almost constantly in the gun..... Edited January 4, 2005 by Oldwheat Quote Link to post Share on other sites
CrazyJ 0 Posted January 4, 2005 Report Share Posted January 4, 2005 I'll try a 1/2 lightening when I get mine if I see deformation after leaving it with a full mag inserted overnight. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.