Got my new bolt gun

[hallboss 1]

My neighbor told me he had a 30-06 for sale for $300. I knew it was an old Mauser action military conversion, but neither he or I knew what it was (we couldn't find any markings). When I picked it up, I tore it apart and when I got the scope mounts off, I saw it is a Winchester model 1917 Enfield. I looked it up and as it turns out, it was built in 1917-1918 and in "poor" condition they're worth $400 all the way up to $1500.

 

I have never heard of this gun and know nothing about it. Could anyone offer any info on this other than what I found on the net?

 

Thanks

Darin

[banshee 69]

Great rifles. I had one for several years, A friend of mine used it for a while in Vintage Military Rifle matches . After he kept and shot it for a couple of years I finally sold it to him. Once they are sporterized they lose alot of there value

 

 

M1917 Enfield rifle

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1917_Enfield_rifle

 

The M1917 Enfield, the "American Enfield" (frequently misidentified or mislabeled as the "P17", "P1917", or "Pattern 1917"), formally named "United States Rifle, cal .30, Model of 1917" was an American modification and production of the British .303 caliber P14 rifle developed and manufactured during the period 1917-1918.

 

Before WWI developed, the British Empire already realized that its battle rifle, the Short Magazine Lee Enfield (SMLE) was already nearly obsolete. Compared to the German Mausers or US 1903 Springfield, the SMLE's 303 British rimmed cartridge, originally a black powder cartridge, was underpowered. Additionally, the rear locking, single lug design in the SMLE caused receiver stretching which required ever larger replacement bolt heads to be installed over the service life of the arm. Great Britain began development of a new rifle and cartridge copying many of the features of the Mauser system. This development included a front locking, dual lug bolt action as well as a new rimless cartridge of .276 caliber. However, the onset of WWI came too quickly for the UK to put it into production.

As it entered World War I, the UK had an urgent need for rifles and contracts for the new rifle were placed with arms companies in the United States. They decided to ask these companies to produce the new rifle in the old .303 caliber. The new rifle was termed the "Pattern 14." In the case of the P14 rifle, Winchester and Remington were selected. A third plant, a subsidiary of Remington, was tooled up at the Baldwin Locomotive Works in Eddystone, PA. Thus three variations of the P14 and M1917 exist, labeled "Winchester," "Remington" and "Eddystone."

When the U.S. entered the war, it had a similar extreme need for rifles. Rather than re-tool completely, the factories, under the close supervision of the US Army Ordnance Department, altered the design for caliber .30-06. Winchester produced the rifle at their New Haven, Connecticut plant and Remington at their main facility at Ilion, New York and at another plant in Eddystone, Pennsylvania. The M1917 Bayonet was also produced and used on several other small arms. Winchester produced 545,511 rifles; Remington about 545,541 and Eddystone 1,181,908.

Both P14 and M1917 rifles are noted for several design features. The rifle was designed with a rear receiver sight, protected by sturdy "ears," a design that proved to be faster and more accurate than the typical mid-barrel sight offered by Mauser, Enfield or the Buffington battle sight of the 1903 Springfield. Future American rifles, such as the 1903-A3 Springfield, M1 and M1 Carbine would all use such receiver sights. The M1917 sight was situated on an elongated receiver bridge, which added a great deal of weight to the action, as well as lengthening the bolt. This extra length created the need for the odd "dog-legged" bolt, which moved the bolt knob rearward. The M1917 action weighs 58 oz. versus 45 oz. for the 1903 Springfield.

The rifle maintains the British cock-on-close feature, in which the bolt's mainspring is loaded and the rifle cocked as part of the return stroke of the bolt, which aided rapid fire. Most bolt action designs after the Mauser 98 cocked as part of the opening stroke. The rifle has a characteristic "belly" due to a deeper magazine, allowing rifle to hold six rounds of the US .30-'06 cartridge. In a manufacturing improvement over the Mauser 98 or Springfield, the bolt handle serves as a third or emergency locking lug, should the two lugs at the front of the bolt fail. Virtually all commercial bolt action rifles since have copied this feature. The location of its massive safety on the right rear of the receiver has also been copied by most sporting bolt action rifles since.

The new rifle was used alongside the M1903 Springfield rifle and quickly surpassed the Springfield design in numbers produced and units issued. By November 11, 1918 about 75% of the AEF were armed with M1917s. After the armistice, M1917 rifles were disposed of as surplus or placed in storage for the most part, although Chemical Mortar units continued to be issued the M1917. American soldiers disliked the exceptional weight of the M1917, and favored "our" 1903 Springfield. More than twice as many Model 1917 Enfields rifles were used in WWI by US troops than 1903 Springfields.

At the time of the American entry in to World War II, the American Army was still issuing the M1917 to Chemical Mortarmen. Perhaps due to rifle shortages at the start of the war, the M1917 was also issued to artillerymen early in the war, and both mortarmen and artillerymen carried the M1917 in North Africa. Lt. Col. Charles E. Peterson (USAR, retired), a Major in the 101st Airborne in the Normandy action, reported seeing some M1917 rifles issued to rear-echelon troops in France during WWII. Otherwise, before and during World War II, stored rifles were reconditioned for use issue as reserve, training, and Lend-Lease weapons; these rifles are identified by having refinished metal (sandblasted and Parkerized) and sometimes replacement wood (often birch). Many were sent to Britain for use by the Home Guard. These were prominently marked with a red paint stripe around the buttstock to avoid confusion with the earlier P14 that used the British .303 round. Others were supplied to the Nationalist Chinese forces and to the Free French, both of which can occasionally be seen in photographs being used in action.

A continuing source of debate among historians concerns what rifle was used by Sgt. Alvin York during his famous action against the Germans in WWI. While York's son has made mention that Sgt. York used a Springfield, the weapon issued to him was an M1917. (The film starring Gary Cooper as Sgt. York had him using an M1903 and a German Luger pistol.)

After WWI, a large number of M1917 rifles were released for civilian use through the NRA.

The bayonet for the M1917 was also used on all American trench shotguns.

 

While developed at the same arsenal, the M1917 is not a version of the .303 caliber rifle of c. 1890-1955, the Lee-Enfield (such as the SMLE version). Both were developed at the Royal Small Arms Factory at Enfield (arsenal) in the United Kingdom. The M1917 was actually a development of the Mauser 98 rifle. Due to the use of rimmed cartridges in the P14, the magazine capacity for the smaller diameter 30-06 was 6 rounds, although stripper clips held only five cartridges.

The action was used as the basis for a variety of commercial and gunsmith-made sporting rifles between the world wars and after; Remington Arms redesigned it, removing the "ears" and changing it to cock-on-open, to become the Remington Model 30 series of rifles in the interwar period. Some (approximately 3000) M1917 rifles were produced in 7 mm and sold to Honduras around 1930. Additional surplus rifles were bought by European arms distributors and converted to 8x57 mauser, then sold for use in the civil war in Spain during the 1930s.

[mstranglr 9]

Not worth $300 sporterized. As With all vintage rifles, any changes (sometimes even cleaning) destroys the value. For a little bit more, you could have landed a new savage or 700SPS in 30/06.

[hallboss 1]

Thanks for the information Banshee.

 

Desert Dog, with Banshee's info I was able to properly search what exactly I had. I realize that $300 was a little steep for what I got, but in all fairness the guy is my neighbor and he was "up on me" when it came to favors. Additionally, since I bought the rifle I found out he is a little down on his luck.

 

Oh well you live and you learn.

Thanks for the info guys.

Darin

[banshee 69]

I would remount the scope and shoot the shit out of it. Most of them shoot good, so enjoy it.

[hallboss 1]

I plan on it. The stock is kind of clunky and pretty chewed up, so I might get a B&C stock for it and shoot the crap out of it. The reason I got this gun was to use for hunting, so when I ding it I don't have a hemmorhage.

 

Thanks again

Darin

[mstranglr 9]

I plan on it. The stock is kind of clunky and pretty chewed up, so I might get a B&C stock for it and shoot the crap out of it. The reason I got this gun was to use for hunting, so when I ding it I don't have a hemmorhage.

 

Thanks again

Darin

 

You might want to look at a Boyd's stock if your interested in realy fixing it up. I have seen a couple at shows with these stocks and they look pretty good.

[hallboss 1]

I am looking for a stock for it, thanks for the info.

[banshee 69]

I am looking for a stock for it, thanks for the info.

 

has the trigger guard been strighened out, or does it still have the curve at the end? It was common to strighten it out when they were sporterized/butchered.

[hallboss 1]

Here it is, I don't know if it has been completely butchered or not.

 

Plus you can tell me if we are talking about the same gun

 

thanks

Darin

[banshee 69]

I was referring to this area. It was common to straighten this area out when they were restocked

 

Edited January 16, 2009 by Banshee

[hallboss 1]

Yes, mine was straightened, but my stock has checkering which tells me mine has a retro'd stock on it.

 

Darin

[banshee 69]

you can here and see what they looked like in full military dress. on the far right.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1917_Enfield_rifle

[hallboss 1]

Thanks,

So what exactly was changed when it was sporterized? The only item on my gun that looks like that is the bolt and the safety lever.

[banshee 69]

Thanks,

So what exactly was changed when it was sporterized? The only item on my gun that looks like that is the bolt and the safety lever.

 

 

I would say they removed the sights, stock , handguards, bands and bayonet lug. May or maynot have replaced the trigger. Does it still have a 2 stage trigger.

[hallboss 1]

single stage as far as I know and the front sight is a blade style, so I think the barrel had been changed as well.

[banshee 69]

single stage as far as I know and the front sight is a blade style, so I think the barrel had been changed as well.

 

you might like these

 

 

http://www.odcmp.com/Forms/M1917.pdf

 

http://armscollectors.com/sn/usmilookup.php

Edited January 16, 2009 by Banshee