thousand son 0 Posted January 10, 2004 Report Share Posted January 10, 2004 Sucks being an engineer and tinkerer type! Just a question,since there seem to be so many ,they do not seem to sell,and prices are cheap, Is it possible to redo a 410 Saiga to a 20 gauge or 12? I post this question for the benefit of all the people who bought the 410's and have found them EXPENSIVE to shoot and now cannot download them,it may give them an option.I see someone has one for sale in florida,posted today. Thanks for putting up with all my posts,once my mind gets the Espresso,LOOK OUT BABY!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
J A 0 Posted January 10, 2004 Report Share Posted January 10, 2004 Why would you want to convert one when the wholesale price of a 20ga Sagia is $10 more than a Saiga 410 and the 12ga is $80. If the conversion is possible it wouldn't be cost effective. If ammo costs are too much for you a MEC 600jr 410 reloader is $100 and buying componets at retail then reloading your fired shells a 25rd box of 3" shotshells would cost $3.50. Reloadng 3" slugs cost $1.25 for a 5rd box using Ballistic Products 410 slugs. So loading 18 boxes of shotshells would pay for the reloader. I watch the newpaper want ads for deals on primers,wads,powder,and shot. I have run into several deals from the want ads and cut my reloading cost per shell in half. I also keep a eye out at gun shows for 410 reloading componets as they are a slow mover and you can get some pretty good deals there too. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest hotvomet Posted January 11, 2004 Report Share Posted January 11, 2004 conversions: well 410 is $$$ out the window... per a 12 at 250 cent a box of cheap shot. But since the ak action was designed to handle the 308,762,223,,, then why not do something intetrsting like a 45-70 out of the 410.. the pressure is less than a .223 and the work is already done fitting the mag box, maybe a altered extractor.. and one can still pop 410s in it.. I knew a guy who made a 458 out of a bar and seen a few odities from m1a, but the 45\70 would be a hoot. marc Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stevem 0 Posted January 11, 2004 Report Share Posted January 11, 2004 ,,, then why not do something intetrsting like a 45-70 out of the 410.. Now you're talking!!That's an interesting idea indeed. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
thousand son 0 Posted January 12, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2004 :eek:There I go with thinking too complicated! Why didn't I think of that,great point and what a great 'guide' gun it could make,and,IF it could be done,re register(?) it as a rifle and you could put a pistol grip and stock,install a rifled barrel(obviously)plus shorten the barrel to 16 1/2 inches. COULD you do this conversion and just use it? Would you get busted if you did do it? What legal issues would there be IF it was converted to a 45-70 and you put a shorter barrel and pistolgrip and stock on it,is it still a SBS? What about if the barrel is still 18" and the original stock is retained? Wheels are beginning to turn. Man I love brainstorming-I think I need a job at a 'think tank'. I smell the potential for a neat little business oportunity......Plus I have always likes the 45-70,and similar .444 Marlin as good brush gun calibers. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BattleRifleG3 16 Posted March 9, 2004 Report Share Posted March 9, 2004 (edited) I started thinking about this again... First, the 45-70 would require more work to the bolt, possibly expanding it larger than it should be. 444 Marlin on the other hand is close enough to 45 Colt, which is close enough to 410 that there are guns chambered for both interchangeably. Second, and more importantly, is the Saiga 410's bolt locking system (ie bolt and trunion) as strong as the 223 or 7.62x39mm models, even though the 410 pressures are far lower, or do they bank on that and make it not as strong? Consider: bolt force = pressure x rear inner area of cartridge. 7.62x39mm: base something like 0.445", inside perhaps 0.420", radius 0.210", area 0.1385in^2. With pressure of 45,000psi, Bolt force = 6235lb 223: base about 0.398", inside say 0.380" (thinner wall than 7.62x39mm), radius 0.190", area 0.1134in^2. With pressure of 55,000psi, Bolt force = 6238lb 410: inside base (same as bore) 0.410", radius 0.205", area 0.1320in^2. With pressure of 13,500 (for 3" shells), Bolt force = 1782lb 444 Marlin: inside base roughly same as 44 Rem Mag, so 0.430", radius 0.215", area = 0.1452in^2, with Pressure of 42,000psi, bolt force = 6099lb 45-70: inside base roughly 0.5" (case is tapered), radius 0.250", area = 0.1963in^2, pressure (factory loads) 28,000psi, Bolt force = 5498lb What this means is that IF the 410 bolt is as strong as the 7.62x39mm and 223 bolts, 444 Marlin is a go. If the bolt left enough space to expand to 45-70, it would be a go as well, though you'd need a new magazine. People may not even think of this round in connection with AKs, but 44 Rem Mag also works, having the same base and lower pressure than the 444 Marlin. But IF the 410 bolt is NOT as strong as the 7.62x39mm and 223 bolts, say if in order to accomodate the shotgun round they removed material that would be more than necessary, then it CANNOT be done. Those with 410 shotguns and standard caliber AKs, please tell us how they compare. Edited March 9, 2004 by BattleRifleG3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shotgun_lobotomy 0 Posted March 22, 2004 Report Share Posted March 22, 2004 a 45-70 ak would kickass but ur shoulder wouldnt like it after a days shooting Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.