8-rd Mag with Unconverted Saiga

[The_Vigilante 14]

I will be getting my Saiga 20 Ga Tuesday if UPS cooperates. I also got an 8-rd mag for it compliments of Carolina Shooter's Supply (Ouch!!!). I want to use the 20 Ga and the 8-rd mag in a 3-gun match on Saturday. Is it legal to use the 8-rd mag with the unconverted Saiga? Thanks

[nalioth 405]

Not under 922r, no.

[The_Vigilante 14]

That is disappointing to hear. I thought since it is an OEM mag it would be legal.

[nalioth 405]

That is disappointing to hear. I thought since it is an OEM mag it would be legal.

It's OEM via "indirect means".

 

If Saigas were imported with these magazines, or RAAC started importing and selling the mags, the Saiga shotgun that the mag fit would be totally banned from importation as soon as the revenuers found out about it.

 

The ability to accept a "non sporting magazine" is an instant disqualification for importation.

[Tsm002 5]

It's legal as soon as you remove the mag. One second, you are a (possible, given the vagueness of the term "assembly") violator. Another second you are not. Keep in mind that we are talking about assembly here, NOT possession.

 

No convictions on this ALONE. Ever. Been some 922r charges as I understand in connection with other, mostly drug related offences. Not sure if the charges panned out; there were some threads about this over on the Falfiles awhile back and no one could find a single case of anyone ever being charged, much less convicted, of 922r merely on assembly using a magazine.

 

Also, was there not an ATF letter posted here awhile back that pretty much stated that the burden of proof lies on the government and that "assembly" does not include the standard manual of arms? I realize that such letters are case specific and in no way non-binding but they are a pretty good indicator of where the BATFE is currently putting its priorities.

 

Honestly, use the 8 round mag in your saiga at the 3 gun match. How do they know that the follow and floorplate are not US made?

 

They don't. Therefore, even if someone DID attempt to pop you for the offense you could simply claim that the parts were US made. Maybe they are. It's up to them to prove that they are not. And that takes time and resources, something that despite popular opinion the BATFE does not enjoy wasting on trivialities.

 

There's no way to prove it and the burden of proof on this, as with ANY offense of this nature, lies with the prosecution. Since 922r does NOT have ANY requirement that US made parts be marked as such the law is, in effect, completely unenforceable. Not worth their time. Of course, someone is going to come along and give us the whole 'THEY SCREWED OVER SUCH AND SUCH AND THEY"RE HORRIBLE AND BLAH BLAH THEY STOP AT NOTHING TO HARASS GUN OWNERS". Usually there is more than meets the eye to such cases. Much, much more. I'd bet that the majority of FFL dealers here have had extremely positive experiences with the BATFE. I know I have. Repeatedly.

 

 

No agent is going to waste his time trying to nail you on a charge that is SO flimsy alone. Despite what the chicken littles on this and almost every other gun forum will tell you, the BATFE have a LOT more on their plate than seeing if you've inserted an 8 round mag into your gun.

 

Hell, last time I had my books audited by the BATFE they saw my saiga 20 with an 8 round mag in it. Do you really think that they cared? No. I'm still here. If they HAD inspected it, they'd eventually see the US made gas puck, trigger parts and handguard, which brings it up to 922r. Just not completely obvious externally. FFL's can verify this: The BATFE is FAR less interested in the non-nfa weapons themselves than they are with the people PURCHASING said weapons. THAT is where they will attempt to nail your ass. If you're a straw purchaser, felon, etc., that is when the BATFE starts to take VERY big notice, especially lately.

 

 

If you're seriously worried about it, you CAN use your 8 round mag in your unconverted saiga. Toss on a US made forearm (good for 3 gun!), throw in a US made gas puck (a good mod to have for 3 gun anyways) and drop in a US made trigger. You can keep and use all 3 parts if you decide to convert later. And all 3 modifications will make you 922r good to go AND will be of great utility in your 3 gun comps. This is the way I would go just to make sure that some douche bag chicken little doesn't decide to play rent-a-cop and try to give you crap about it at the match and because it will bring you that much closer to restoring your s20 back to original configuration.

 

The 8 round s20 mags are very, very nice and reliable. Kalinka *gag gag* carries some mag pouches for them and I've managed to get some .308 mag pouches to suffice. Also basic ditty bag pouches for first aid or misc. equipment can be easily modded or used to carry the mags in a 3 gun environment.