Wicked96SS 0 Posted January 14, 2004 Report Share Posted January 14, 2004 First off hello... I am new to the forum, and this is my first post! I have been hemming and hawing over getting a Saiga 12 for a very long time. I actually ordered one, and instead, because I needed the money, let it go. I kick myself every day for that. Either way, I have been competing in several IPSC and IDPA matches for a while now, and enjoy them quite a bit. I was wanting to get into the 3 gun matches, or even the long gun matches, and thought that maybe the Saiga would be a good shotgun for competition. The questions I have are: I currently shoot Limited 10 with my Glock 21 (.45 ACP). What class would I be in with the Saiga? Do you have to shoot 3 guns that are in the same class (for example, all Limited guns, production, etc.) when doing 3 gun matches? How does the Saiga do compared to other 12 guages in accuracy and reliability? Thanks for any information or links that you could pass my way. Either way, I hope to have my Saiga 12 soon! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
IPSC_GUY 3 Posted January 23, 2004 Report Share Posted January 23, 2004 Hello Well I am going to start running a Saiga 12 as my shotgun. I shoot in limited class so a saiga will fall into that, unless you mount optics and then that takes you in to open class. I have yet to shoot a mtach and it will be month or more till I do shoot one but I will let you know. I think the saiga 12 is the wave of the future of the shotgun stage of three gun. Shotgunning in IPSC isn't about how well you shoot, it's about how fat you reload and even with 5 round mags I think they will kick ass. I will keep ya informed as this progresses IPSC_GUY sends Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Wicked96SS 0 Posted January 23, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2004 Please do let me know... I am going to order the shotgun soon! I have been told that a lot of the stages are geared toward 8 round shotguns, so the 5 round might be a problem. I would be interested to hear what you think. I am currently thinking about using my bone stock Mossberg 590 mariner for a couple, just to get the hang of them. But, reloading is reallly slow! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
IPSC_GUY 3 Posted January 24, 2004 Report Share Posted January 24, 2004 (edited) It's not so much the stage but the number of firing positions in the stage and how many targets you have to engage. It has been my experience that the most you seem to shoot from a single position is 6 targets. Even the cats running open guns with the big long extension tubes that hold 12 and 13 rounds never refill all the way back up after they empty their tube the first time. So then they are down to speedloaders which only hold 4... See where I am going with this. The shotgun portion of a three gun match isn't about how well you can shoot, everyone does ok, it's a shotgun afterall. IT"S ALL ABOUT HOW FAST YOU CAN RELOAD ! ! ! and that boys and girls is the bottom line. I have been practicing making reloads and I can now insert a loaded magazine into the gun with the bolt forward. It isn't nearly as hard as the first time I tried it. With a months practice under my belt I will be ready to give it a whirl next month. I feel like the lone voice in the wilderness... "the Saiga 12 will one day RULE the shotgun stages of three gun ! ! ! IPSC_GUY (saiga prophet to all of you) sends Edited January 27, 2004 by IPSC_GUY Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ronswin 26 Posted January 26, 2004 Report Share Posted January 26, 2004 Myself and another member of this board have been using Siaga 12 shotguns in local 3-gun competions for some time. The Saiga shotgun DOES have a huge advantage over regular tube mag shotguns when reloading. Even factoring in the 5 rnd. mags you can still outgun most other shotguns. This can only occur if the operator spends a generous amount of time PRACTICING RELOADS. More than a few Saiga 12s have been sold off due to frustration by the owners fumbling mag changes while on the clock. Yes, I too believe these shotguns have yet to come into there own in competition shooting. RonSwin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
IPSC_GUY 3 Posted January 27, 2004 Report Share Posted January 27, 2004 (edited) Part of the problem with the reload is this. The stupid magazine spring is the same spring that is used in the 10 round magazine. Cut about a thierd of it off and you still have reliable feeding but now you can insert you loaded magazine. Are you guys shooting in USPSA sactioned matches? There is a question going on the Brian Enos forum about the Saiga 12 being an open gun because of the magazine. What class do you guys shoot in? Also in the matches that you shoot, would anyone give you a hard time about using an 8 rounder or 10 rounder if you could lay your hands on one? IPSC_GUY sends Edited January 27, 2004 by IPSC_GUY Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ronswin 26 Posted January 27, 2004 Report Share Posted January 27, 2004 Try leaving the mags loaded for a week or two. This seems to assist in rapid mag changes as it takes a little bit of the mag spring "set" out. You are fighting the follower spring tension during the mag change when inserting a fresh mag against a closed bolt. I have followed that thread on Brian Enos with little enthusiasm. It seems that due to the low cost most "competition" shooters dismiss the Saiga 12 for the Benelli, Remington and etc. so they can spend even more money on making these shotguns "competitive" (sometimes another word for reliable). We have yet to shoot in a USPSA sanctioned events and I personally think comparing a magazine the same as a "speed loader" is the product of someone with feelings of inadequacy (or shotgun envy). The SWAT Magazine 3-gun and Kyle Lamb's North American Tactical do not place any category on Saiga shotguns. I have seen 8-rnd. mags used at both competitions with no problems due to fact that law enforcement personnel will sometimes use their Saiga 12 duty weapons in these events. RonSwin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Wicked96SS 0 Posted January 27, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2004 According to the USPSA rules, the only thing about a stock Saiga that would make it an OPEN gun would be considering the magazine a speed loader, right? That is silly... a magazine isn't a loader, it is a magazine. Anyhow, it makes it more difficult as there isn't (or at least I couldn't find) a definition in the USPSA rules about what a "speed loader" really is. Even if they make it an open gun, that is fine, just add some nice optics on it, and you should still be very competitive with the high dollar shotguns... or at least that is what I would think... As for the tough magazines, have the same problem with 10 round magazines for my G21... in my epxerience, I found it easier to break them in my loading and unloading them several times after leaving them sit loaded for a while. I think the constant loading and unloading of them breaks the spring in quicker. The only concearn I would have about cutting the spring would be that after it truely breaks in, the spring might be too weak, and give you some failure to feeds. Just an opinion! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
12gGunman 0 Posted February 3, 2004 Report Share Posted February 3, 2004 I've used my Class3 Saiga in two 3-gun matches so far and it did very well. As stated by others, the only problem I had was with trying to insert a loaded mag with the bolt closed. I'm working on the now and should have a fix in a couple weeks. After that, I'm confident that the Saiga will run with the big dogs. Even with a short barrel (with a poly choke) it does great with slugs and so long as I run a heavy game load, it cleans a plate rack as fast as my Benelli. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
IPSC_GUY 3 Posted February 4, 2004 Report Share Posted February 4, 2004 12gGunman What did you do to your Saiga to make Class 3? Short Barrel? How short did you go with it? This is something I have been considering. I was worried about function with a short barrel though. How long did it take to get your SBS back from the ATF? IPSC_GUY sends Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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