Shopping for a .308. Which is a better "designated shooter" p

[kadetklapp 3]

Looking to get a .308 Saiga. I'd like to build something with some decent optics and make the gun something that produces a decent MOA. Obviously a 21" barrel Saiga would be better for distance shooting, but would the difference between the 21" and 16" be nominal? I'd like the gun to also serve as an MBR as well as a distance rifle.

[Rhodes1968 1,638]

Welllll it depends. Hope you aren't looking for a simple answer. There's a lot of threads on this subject and not a whole lot has ever been settled. I wish they had made a 18-19" myself but ah well.

[paprotective 362]

I went 21" as I wanted a 'distance' shooter.. Now I'm finding out with my 200 yard RANGE that its going to be hard to test. I want to shoot 400 yards ALL DAY but can't..

 

Most say a 16" 308 is fine, especially as an MBR. (I have a 762x39 Saiga for that though) and most also say out to 300-350 yards it be compable per se.

 

Some say 19-20" is the optimum bbl for good 308 ammo powder burn.. a few BUILDERS here cut to 19" with there custom builds.

 

 

Al

Edited September 9, 2010 by YWHIC

[cw3sting 12]

I'll have to agree with Al, I love my 16 incher. But, I would have gotten the 22 if anyone had them in stock at the time. Probably will buy one someday anyway.

 

With the 22, you always have the option to trim it back to between 18-20. That leaves you many front end and FSB rework options.

 

It's always easier to take off barrel than to add.

[rob-cubed 74]

As others have said, 16" is a little short for complete powder burn unless you reload specifically for it. Incomplete burn will reduce velocity a tiny bit and requires compensating for more bullet drop over a distance. It will also create some excessive muzzle flash.

 

On the plus side, 16" barrels are much handier and more maneuverable. AKs are not sniper-accurate rifles to begin with, so I'd rather trade a few inches of barrel that's not really necessary for a lighter, smaller "working gun". I'd prefer to take one or two very calculated shots with a bolt rifle.

 

Distance shooters with more experience than me claim there is no difference in accuracy due to barrel length within a certain range (16" is at the low end but still within reason). In fact, a shorter stiffer barrel can often mean more consistent shots depending on barrel harmonics and other factors.

[kadetklapp 3]

Thanks for the excellent info fellas.

 

I guess what I really need to do is decide what the rifle is going to be for- specifically- and stick with it. Of course there is always the possibliity of buying TWO rifles

 

For those with the 16" as an MBR, what, if any, optics do you go with?

[paprotective 362]

For my 762x39 I just switched/upgraded to another Bushnell Trophy RD for $72 SHIPPED and it has 3moa, 10moa, crosshair, and 65/3 moa combo.. Part # 73-0134.. B&H Photo has them. They make a red/green option one for about $100 also..

 

The Bushnell Trophy red dot I had prior was a 6MOA DOT only and it was great out to 200 yards for me...

 

The new one I just got (line 1) its on tthe same UTG 978 mount $36 shipped.. and should yield tighter groups than the 6moa version I had which was getting 5-7" swaths (aka 20-40 rounds) at 200 yards and 4-6" swaths at 100 yards (aka 20-40 rounds)..

 

Most are going to say Kalinka type scope/red dot..

 

Be posting all types of Range info and pics in my 'Friday Range' post you'll see under the 308 section.

 

I run a cheap NcStar 6x32 $27 SHIPPED, which held up great on the 762x39 and now sits on the 545x39 I have.

 

BSA makes a fixed 8x scope for $99 that may interest you.

 

 

 

Al

[kadetklapp 3]

For my 762x39 I just switched/upgraded to another Bushnell Trophy RD for $72 SHIPPED and it has 3moa, 10moa, crosshair, and 65/3 moa combo.. Part # 73-0134.. B&H Photo has them. They make a red/green option one for about $100 also..

 

The Bushnell Trophy red dot I had prior was a 6MOA DOT only and it was great out to 200 yards for me...

 

The new one I just got (line 1) its on tthe same UTG 978 mount $36 shipped.. and should yield tighter groups than the 6moa version I had which was getting 5-7" swaths (aka 20-40 rounds) at 200 yards and 4-6" swaths at 100 yards (aka 20-40 rounds)..

 

Most are going to say Kalinka type scope/red dot..

 

Be posting all types of Range info and pics in my 'Friday Range' post you'll see under the 308 section.

 

I run a cheap NcStar 6x32 $27 SHIPPED, which held up great on the 762x39 and now sits on the 545x39 I have.

 

BSA makes a fixed 8x scope for $99 that may interest you.

 

 

 

Al

 

Good deal! I was looking at different setups. Holographic was what I wanted, but I was afraid the cheapies would be too sensitive to the shock given off by a .308.

 

Does the .308 Saiga come new with a scope rail and mount?

[paprotective 362]

You can get the UTG978 detachable AK mount for $36 shipped from opticsplanet which slides onto the factory side rail.

 

There is also the BP02 (low) mount for $54 from Kalinka Optics if you want a Russian Made mount.

 

 

 

Al

[cw3sting 12]

Newbie;

 

I've got three of the UTG 5th generation mounts. I haven't had any problem with them keeping zero.

 

Regardless of the optics you choose, if you need an economy AK mount, I believe they will do the job.

 

Alternatives are the DPH receiver rail and the TWS dogleg, which also provide the option of a rear peep.

 

Take your time, experiment, enjoy.

[kadetklapp 3]

By any chance are there "Barrett M82-Type" muzzle brakes available for this .308? A while back, I was toying around with a Mossberg ATR .308 I was going to buy. It was a smooth shooting rifle with little recoil. I liked the brake on it (but heard several horror stories about the bolts blowing out of the rifles so I passed) and would like to look at one for this. I'm thinking a big fat brake like this might help with accuracy on such a thin-barreled rifle.

Edited September 13, 2010 by kadetklapp

[paprotective 362]

I think JTac makes one.. not sure I saw a BARRET 'muffin' style one but it was $100+

 

 

Albert

[kadetklapp 3]

I think JTac makes one.. not sure I saw a BARRET 'muffin' style one but it was $100+

 

 

Albert

 

I'm not finding anything for a .308 or a Saiga on Jtacs site.

[paprotective 362]

Try darkmetal design.. or google M82 Barret Style Brake..

 

I found some different mfg's that make those types last year..

 

JP Tactical has some nice ones also..

 

http://www.vandykerifles.com/muzzle_brakes.htm

 

If I find the link I will PM you.

 

 

Albert

[nsdhanoa 13]

I'm no expert, but my understanding of muzzle brakes is that they don't improve the intrinsic accuracy of a rifle. Once the bullet leaves the bore, the gases that follow it shouldn't have any influence on the path of the bullet. They can make the recoil more manageable which helps the shooter get over flinching habits etc, which can give results. Putting a weight on the end of the barrel will change the harmonics of the barrel, which could be beneficial, or it could not. I think this is why things like the Browning BOSS and the thing on the mini-14 target are adjustable, so that they can be tuned to each gun/load. From the tests I've seen on those devices, they have to be retuned for each load or they can screw with accuracy. As far as I'm concerned, barrel harmonics are voodoo black magic that I will never understand.

By any chance are there "Barrett M82-Type" muzzle brakes available for this .308? A while back, I was toying around with a Mossberg ATR .308 I was going to buy. It was a smooth shooting rifle with little recoil. I liked the brake on it (but heard several horror stories about the bolts blowing out of the rifles so I passed) and would like to look at one for this. I'm thinking a big fat brake like this might help with accuracy on such a thin-barreled rifle.