Russian optics

[hutchsaiga 93]

Hey guys I recently converted a x39 and have put maybe 1000rnds through and have become pretty good with iron sights from 50-100 yards. I can hit soda bottles at 80 or so it just takes a lot of strain and concentration. I'm looking to get some type of Russian optic(posp4x24,cobra,pk-a). I normally shoot 50-100 yrds but would like to try further out sometime. I like the red dots for thier fast acquisition but like the price point and quality of the POSP. I only have about a $200ish budget. What would you recommend?

[Salmonking 149]

At that price point, I think you'd be better served with a POSP. Magnification is a plus at range, and the red dots are generally start around $300.

[TX-Zen 287]

PK-A red dots are still under $200 from Eastwave, I've had solid use out of mine for years. I'd recommend the hammer grey military version over the black civilian model, all things considered you'll probably have a more reliable red dot at the same price.

 

The POSP 4x24 is still just about the best deal in AK optics you can get IMO, less than $200 and very well made rugged scopes.

 

 

 

 

Z

[jimdigriz 580]

PK-A red dots are still under $200 from Eastwave, I've had solid use out of mine for years. I'd recommend the hammer grey military version over the black civilian model, all things considered you'll probably have a more reliable red dot at the same price.

 

The POSP 4x24 is still just about the best deal in AK optics you can get IMO, less than $200 and very well made rugged scopes.

 

Is there any difference in the quality of the grey POSPs offered by Eastwave and the black ones offered by Kalinka? Your comment on the PK-A above makes me curious.

[TX-Zen 287]

Like many things regarding Russian gear it's not super straightforward, but most of the military grade optics recognized to be in service with the military seem to have a hammer grey finish. PSO-1, 1P29, PK-A and other optics both daylight and night vision have some form of a hammer grey finish applied, and apparently have since the 60's. The two examples from the 90's that don't are the PK-AS and the Kobra, both of which are considered to be military issue items (though not on the scale we see with ACOG's and Aimpoints). What I'm seeing lately is the newer generation of red dot optics that are finished in black or really dark grey, it seems to be a modern design trend for whatever reason. (For example the PK01-VS that supposed recently finished military acceptance trials. It has a very dark grey finish instead of hammer grey or black)

 

There's a whole civilian line of optics which are basically the same design as military PSO scopes...the POSP's that are made in Belarus. I don't know the ins and outs of the construction details or exactly how they compare to military grade scopes, but over the years my impression is that while they are plenty tough they are not intended to meet Russian milspec standards. Of the 20+ combloc optics I've owned only one that has had a real malfunction, the rest have never had an issue, which makes my subjective impression that they are tough enough for real world use, but maybe not military grade day in day out in theatre for years.

 

One thing I suspect about red dots is that I think many of these might have been intended for military use but for one reason or another they didn't make it into service and so they ended up being sold on the civilian market instead. This is pure conjecture based on years of hearing this or hearing that from a variety of sources but I think there is some level of truth to it, I just can't be sure how much.

 

Certain scopes are definitely civilian-ized...there are versions of the PK-A that are black and have POSP style turrets instead of the smaller kind used on the grey model, POSP 4x24's with the Simonov reticule and even the POSP 8x42's that do come in a grey finish seem to be more of a civilian optic than a military issue one. Again it's all conjecture but my impression is based on things I've heard and things I've somehwat deduced over the years. It's a complex subject but part of the issue is that there are only a certain number of optics generally recognized as being in service but there is a far larger variety available on the commerical market. The trend for magnified optics seems to be black is civilian and grey is military, but with red dots the majority are black and only a few are apparently civilian-ized from known military models like the PK-A.

 

 

 

Z

[jimdigriz 580]

Certain scopes are definitely civilian-ized...there are versions of the PK-A that are black and have POSP style turrets instead of the smaller kind used on the grey model, POSP 4x24's with the Simonov reticule and even the POSP 8x42's that do come in a grey finish seem to be more of a civilian optic than a military issue one.

 

Hmm...do you think the grey 4x POSPs that Eastwave sells are robust enough to have a long and productive life on a Saiga 308?

Edited February 9, 2011 by Jim Digriz

[TX-Zen 287]

Personally I do, and would have no problem using one long term and already have in the past. I used two different 8x42's for years on my 308 and 54R NDM86's with a combined round count over 2K each without any issues. When I say 20+ optics I'm serious, I've had a ton of them of many kinds and only had a problem with a black PK-A model.

 

As I mentioned I can't describe the exact differences of why the civilian versions aren't considered milspec because the information just doesn't seem to exist but my practical experience is that they are robust and durable scopes that are well worth the money. Particularly the POSP 4x24 which is still extremely cheap compared to western optics but have long track records of reliable use over here in the states by a lot of AK enthusiasts.

 

 

 

 

 

Z