psl sniper 963 Posted February 25, 2011 Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 (edited) my vote is the yugo. Edited February 25, 2011 by psl sniper Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Arik 565 Posted February 25, 2011 Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 I like em all but if I had to choose. In no perticular order and before they get hacked here for safties. Russian, polish, yugo. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Shandlanos 1,470 Posted February 25, 2011 Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 Lol where the hell is Russia?? I love my Norinco TT pistols - a Type 54 in 7.62x25, and a Model 213 in 9mm. I've handled several Polish and Romanian TT pistols, and they've varied substantially in quality. I've only seen two Yugoslavian pistols, and they were both too thoroughly caked in cosmo to determine how much play there was in the action. Most of the original Russian guns I've seen were pretty beaten up (one had been through a house fire), but still very cool weapons - I really like the style of the slide serrations and the wood grips on the originals. My CZ-52s are fun, but have not been as reliable as TT pistols tend to be, and the finish on most leaves a lot to be desired. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Azrial 1,091 Posted February 25, 2011 Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 I voted CZ52, but would take a Yugo in the TT33! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
psl sniper 963 Posted February 25, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 how the hell did i forget the russian? anyway added it in. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kresk 10,063 Posted February 25, 2011 Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 The Polish one I have actually looks pretty good. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
7N6Wolf 61 Posted February 26, 2011 Report Share Posted February 26, 2011 I have not tried any of the other variants, but I am happy with my Polish Tokarev. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BrutalGardener 205 Posted February 26, 2011 Report Share Posted February 26, 2011 The Yugo M57 is obviously the nicest and prettiest, but a Russian TT33 is hard to beat as a collector's piece. The CZ-52 is an interesting curiosity... typically the Czechs improved on a design, but in this case, it's not so. That gun is ugly as sin (IMO), heavy, uncomfortable and has more felt recoil. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Azrial 1,091 Posted February 27, 2011 Report Share Posted February 27, 2011 The Yugo M57 is obviously the nicest and prettiest, but a Russian TT33 is hard to beat as a collector's piece. The CZ-52 is an interesting curiosity... typically the Czechs improved on a design, but in this case, it's not so. That gun is ugly as sin (IMO), heavy, uncomfortable and has more felt recoil. Ha! Most TT33 Tokarevs look like they were machined with a cold chisel and a cinder block! The grip is also too short for most large American sized hands! Little more then a crude rip-off of John Browning's design and a poor implementation at that! By contrast the CZ Vz-52 is a well machined and elegant pistol evocative of the Art-Deco influence of the period. Its roller-locking system is innovative in a pistol and widely regarded as being stronger then that of the TT33 by many sources, including the US Army in one of their training manuals! Whereas the TT33 crowd must rely on the study of one (1) man, Magnuson, to contradict all that....weak. Still I would rather have a Tok then no 7.62x25mm shooter, and would encourage folks to get one, if they can't find the clearly superior CZ52 anyway... But, as you said, each to his own opinion, afterall beauty is in the eye of the beer-holder! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BrutalGardener 205 Posted February 27, 2011 Report Share Posted February 27, 2011 (edited) Azrial, most Toks do look rough and the quality of steel on the WW2 era ones is probably shit. I think that the stumpy grip looks and feels lame too. That's why I am recommending the "M57", which are higher quality (fit and finish wise) and have a longer grip. Also, there is nothing wrong with the design. It is actually an improvement on the original Browning design, especially when it comes to the simplified, one unit FCG. The Yugo also has an improved, one-piece spring and rod, that's much easier to work with. Unlike the Czech design, this one has been battle-proven in the harshest conditions, over and over again. Also, the bottom of the vz52's chamber is MUCH thinner than the bottom of the TT's chamber, which is a fact. Edited February 27, 2011 by SpetsnazGRU Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Azrial 1,091 Posted February 27, 2011 Report Share Posted February 27, 2011 (edited) Azrial, most Toks do look rough and the quality of steel on the WW2 era ones is probably shit. I think that the stumpy grip looks and feels lame too. That's why I am recommending the "M57", which are higher quality (fit and finish wise) and have a longer grip. If you noticed above, I concurred on this as one of the better examples of this design. Also, there is nothing wrong with the design. It is actually an improvement on the original Browning design, especially when it comes to the simplified, one unit FCG. The Yugo also has an improved, one-piece spring and rod, that's much easier to work with. Yeah... You will not find much support in the idea that this pistol is an improvement over the 1911. It was redesigned to be made as cheaply as possible, and often, as you have stated, from sub-standard materials. The often quoted "thicker chamber" is simply the result of this. Unlike the Czech design, this one has been battle-proven in the harshest conditions, over and over again. Both pistols are still at war. Both are very popular in areas were body armor is common. Also, the bottom of the vz52's chamber is MUCH thinner than the bottom of the TT's chamber, which is a fact. There is a lot more to a pistols ability to withstand heavy loads then this one factor. It is, in the opinion of many, as thick as it needs to be, considering the steel used. The TT33 was designed in 1932, the Cz53 in 1952. Believe it or not, lots of things have been known to improve in a decade... Hey, if you like yours, great! I would take an M57 if I got the chance, I recently saw them for $199! But, given a choice I vastly prefer the Cz52! I have only written all of the above to give the uninformed reader a different opinion, not to suggest that you need to throw your TT33 in the trash! Edited February 27, 2011 by Azrial 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BrutalGardener 205 Posted February 27, 2011 Report Share Posted February 27, 2011 The M57 was designed in 1957 and built until the 1980's, from good quality, post-war steel and under the Yugoslavian's arms industry's rather good workmanship standards. The finish and quality machining on them is very nice. One of the pistol that my buddy got from J&G is simply pristine, looking like it came straight from the factory, while his other piece and my own piece, do have some holster wear but are in excellent condition. They look pretty classy to me and are excellent shooters. It also fits very well in my hand with a Sigma slip-on rubber grip and points very naturally. What's not to like? These are the ultimate examples of the "Soviet 1911", as far as I am concerned. As far as vz52's, I don't really care whether they are stronger, weaker, etc. I just don't much care for them based on looks (strictly subjectives), ergos (heavy and uncomfortable) and increased recoil. A Russian Tok, I would only keep a collector's piece. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Azrial 1,091 Posted February 28, 2011 Report Share Posted February 28, 2011 ....As far as vz52's, I don't really care whether they are stronger, weaker, etc. I just don't much care for them based on looks (strictly subjectives), ergos (heavy and uncomfortable) and increased recoil. A Russian Tok, I would only keep a collector's piece. How does a heavier pistol, with more grip angle, and a longer barrel, firing the same round, have more recoil? 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BrutalGardener 205 Posted February 28, 2011 Report Share Posted February 28, 2011 A number of sources claim that the TT has lesser perceived recoil, including The Box of Truth here: http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/edu59_3.htm Here's what the Wikipedia article (yeah, not the ultimate source, but a good explanation) says about the felt recoil on vz52: "The CZ 52 has a deep (front-to-back) but slim (side-to-side) grip, as well as a low "hump" which meets the web of the hand at the rear of the grip. These ergonomics cause the barrel and slide to sit rather high above the grip, resulting in very strong felt recoil." Quote Link to post Share on other sites
volkov 318 Posted February 28, 2011 Report Share Posted February 28, 2011 love my cz52. I don't find recoil to be a problem whatsoever. Have you shot one? I love everything about it, from the looks, to the funciton, to the simplicity on tear down.. great pistol (I do not use stock grip, or firing pin though. Didn't mind them but changed them anyway after my first range trip. Also like the TT33s, in fact I plan on ordering a m57 for my dad as soon as I find a cheaper FFL. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
psl sniper 963 Posted February 28, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2011 ....As far as vz52's, I don't really care whether they are stronger, weaker, etc. I just don't much care for them based on looks (strictly subjectives), ergos (heavy and uncomfortable) and increased recoil. A Russian Tok, I would only keep a collector's piece. How does a heavier pistol, with more grip angle, and a longer barrel, firing the same round, have more recoil? having shot both, i can honestly say the cz52 has more recoil. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Azrial 1,091 Posted February 28, 2011 Report Share Posted February 28, 2011 I have fired both pistols as well, but not at the same time. Perhaps the Cz52 does seem to recoil more for some folks, who can say? Perhaps the sly Commies were able to bend the laws of Physics a tad! The perception of recoil is a pretty individual thing, and some of this may be attributed to hand size and shape, I have very large hands, with a span of a foot between my outstretched little finger and thumb. Either way, given the dynamics quoted above, it is hard to imagine that the difference is worthy of consideration. I will say this, neither of them is nothing compared to my standard carry 10mm with hot loads. I really wish from a practice standpoint that it recoiled more! But, I have heard others crab about the way that the Cz52 fits their hands. I have altered my grip in a somewhat cheesy but nevertheless effective manner by covering it with multiple layers of bicycle inner tube, It works great like this and I was able to build up the size, specially in the heel, to fit my hands better. I tried to use one the rubber grip sleeves, but the one I bought did not fit this pistol tightly. If someone knows a model that fits this pistol well, be sure to chime in! No, it does not look as ghetto as you might at first imagine, but probably close... 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ktcm7271 999 Posted February 28, 2011 Report Share Posted February 28, 2011 I voted m-57, I love mine and the extra round is nice. I'm working on some wood grips for it, but the weird design is giving me some problems. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
psl sniper 963 Posted February 28, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2011 I have fired both pistols as well, but not at the same time. Perhaps the Cz52 does seem to recoil more for some folks, who can say? Perhaps the sly Commies were able to bend the laws of Physics a tad! The perception of recoil is a pretty individual thing, and some of this may be attributed to hand size and shape, I have very large hands, with a span of a foot between my outstretched little finger and thumb. Either way, given the dynamics quoted above, it is hard to imagine that the difference is worthy of consideration. I will say this, neither of them is nothing compared to my standard carry 10mm with hot loads. I really wish from a practice standpoint that it recoiled more! But, I have heard others crab about the way that the Cz52 fits their hands. I have altered my grip in a somewhat cheesy but nevertheless effective manner by covering it with multiple layers of bicycle inner tube, It works great like this and I was able to build up the size, specially in the heel, to fit my hands better. I tried to use one the rubber grip sleeves, but the one I bought did not fit this pistol tightly. If someone knows a model that fits this pistol well, be sure to chime in! No, it does not look as ghetto as you might at first imagine, but probably close... dude you got some big ol mutton mits! i feel that the czs grip is to big to start with. that would explain why the recoil issue, isnt an issue for you. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
volkov 318 Posted February 28, 2011 Report Share Posted February 28, 2011 (edited) hand size might be why I like it was well.. plus the grips I have. I'm also 6'4 but have longer hands then my 6'5 brother. Maybe that has something to do with why I like it so much. My thumb reaches the slide release and my finger tips actually extend past the textured part on the grip (my middle finger tip ends right where the U band to hold the grip on starts when gripped for shooting.) Edited February 28, 2011 by volkov 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Azrial 1,091 Posted March 1, 2011 Report Share Posted March 1, 2011 hand size might be why I like it was well.. plus the grips I have. I'm also 6'4 but have longer hands then my 6'5 brother. Maybe that has something to do with why I like it so much. My thumb reaches the slide release and my finger tips actually extend past the textured part on the grip (my middle finger tip ends right where the U band to hold the grip on starts when gripped for shooting.) Wow, that is a seriously nice looking Cz52! Kudos! I too thought about a slide release, but since I am a Glock shooter, did not want to teach myself a bad habit. The Glock slide should be released by grasping the rear of the slide, not by using its vestigial slide release. I am afraid to ask, but where did you get those grips and how much were they? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
volkov 318 Posted March 1, 2011 Report Share Posted March 1, 2011 (edited) it's cz52grips.com (hopefully that doesn't count as a link since it's the name of the store) 35$.. Thought it was a good deal! They have a few styles and every now and then update their multicolor- they seem to only make one per multicolor pattern but I liked the solid better so it wasn't an issue. Really like mine. I ordered black but in most lights it looks plum.. But wound up liking it so I didn't even mention it to them. edit: oh and shippings free I think edit: Second and much later edit, wanted to put a better picture up. Plum colors more obvious on this one Edited March 1, 2011 by volkov Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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