does surplus ammo 'yaw' slightly under 25 yards from Saiga 5.4

[man-at-arms 2]

Bros-

 

I own two Saiga firearms, so please don't give me shit or tell me I deserve my current headache, etc. I just don't (yet?) own a 5.45 Saiga rifle. I got tired of waiting for the Saiga 5.45 (which I whined about for years) and took the gamble on a 2009-mfg. Century Bulgarian AK74.

 

I have fired about 400 rounds of corrosive Ukrainian surplus out of it, with zero keyholing beyond 30 yards. Under 25 yards, it leaves oblong holes about the width of two clean holes. No true key-holes like the shameful Century Tantals.

 

I have heard that 5.45x39 just does this, even from Saiga rifles.

 

Is this true? If not, why are my bullets stabilizing before impact if fired at paper >30yards?

 

I really appreciate your input.

 

Thanks.

[jeep45238 6]

No. My wasr2 was returned for keyholing like you describe. My 5.45 AR15 shoots true no matter the distance.

 

The projectile should be stabilized out of the bore.

Edited June 19, 2011 by jeep45238

[man-at-arms 2]

Thanks for responding.

 

I suppose I'll try other ammo before I give up on it. Any recommendations?

[jimdigriz 580]

Thanks for responding.

 

I suppose I'll try other ammo before I give up on it. Any recommendations?

 

If it doesn't work with surplus ammo, it's not worth having.

[Ronswin 26]

Thanks for responding.

 

I suppose I'll try other ammo before I give up on it. Any recommendations?

 

If it doesn't work with surplus ammo, it's not worth having.

 

The 5.45 rifle should stabilize mil-surp without any real issues. Some early Century AK-74 type rifles were supposedly sold with .223 barrels when the U.S. Customs/ BATF demanded a halt on imported barrels for these rifles. It's not a huge difference in the bore diameters, but enough to cause bullet keyholing at even close range. Your rifle seems to be a later manufacture after these .223 barrels were used, however, we are talking about Century firearms. I would suggest using a tight bore brush and cleaning rod to check the twist rate of your barrel for starters. AK-74 spec should be close to 1:7 or 1:8 and if that checks out have a gunsmith slug the bore for certainty. If the barrel seems within tolerance, then check the muzzle crown for burrs or damage and closely inspect the muzzle-brake (if so equipped) for the possibility of the muzzle device contacting the projectile exiting the bore.

[Paulry 50]

Century actually sells the 5.45x39 rifles with different twist rates! (check their web site). They go 1:7, 1:8 and 1:9.

the 1:9 could be a problem with heavy bullets. The problem is they had twist rates in the 1:12 range (like original M16 .223/5.56x45)

This twist rate does NOT work with long bullets.

 

Remember: higher number = slower rotation / lower number = faster rotation

 

Faster rotation = better stabilized bullet But

If you shoot a .223 with .50 grain soft points in the fast twist they will fly apart from excessive rotational forces!

 

The mil spec barrel in the 5.45x39 is around 1:8 (its in millimeters not inches)

 

The new frangible Hornady round uses a 60 grain Bullet due to the higher rotational load so it stays together.

 

This comes from 40 years of reloading and reading every reloading manuals from cover to cover during those years!

 

I have NO problem with my Tantal and it has a twist near 1:9. I've shot all weights (70 grain even, no keyhole) In fact That Green River Barrel might be my most accurate!

 

The 5.45x39 is like the 5.56x45 which are very high intensity rounds. Once the velocity goes above 3000 fps things can happen fast and any minor imperfections (barrel, barrel fouling or bullet) really stand out.

 

I recently invested in a number of quick detach scope mounts and a variety of scopes (thanks to the Sportsmans Guide walk in surplus store) and are going to really work at shooting paper with my 5.45x39 Saiga. More to come.

 

Frosty