Range Trip w/Video & Target pics.

[paprotective 362]

Just got back from Range 14 in NJ today. Busy at 8am, by 8:20 all 15 lanes were filled..

 

Here is a short 2 min video clip. First couple rounds were the 5.45 doing the 200 yard with the fixed 6x32 scope.

 

Then the last is the 7.62x39 just 'banging' the 25 1/2 yard with the 4x30 fixed scope.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUK_m1zAlW8

 

200 yard target gave me 4" or so (to the left).

Then I adjusted too far right, but still held the 4" group with the 5.45

 

 

At 25 yards the .30 cal kicked ass with the 4x30 scope. Going to set for the 100 yard standard next time.

 

 

Also have to get the Bushnell Trophy RD mounted back up when I get another QD mount. Just so the .30 can be flexible...

 

Now I have to get more 5.45x39 ammo

 

Feedback & Comments welcome...

[blkgunlvr 31]

I've just got to say it - you obviously have a rifle that shoots well, and I'm not attacking your skills as a shooter, but your enthusiastic claims of 4" groups at 200 yards are not likely and are not substantiated by any photos that you've posted. The design of the rifle is just not intended nor capable of MOA or sub-MOA groups, even in a machine rest in a climate-controlled tunnel range. This clip is a 7.62.39, but observe the barrel and gas tube flex on firing.

 

 

You've posted several targets with 40 to 60 holes covering the entire target and then stated that a certain "group" of them were 2-1/2 or 4-1/2"

 

If you are going to effectively demonstrate an ability for your rifle to perform in this fashion, I have to remain skeptical until you can provide photographic evidence of a group of 3 or 5 shots ONLY that measure the size you claim at the most extreme spread.

 

Not to discredit you or your claims - I'm just skeptical of the ability of any AK variant to provide this kind of consistent accuracy.

Edited April 3, 2010 by blkgunlvr

[paprotective 362]

blkgunlvr.

 

I hear you. This was with my 5.45x39 Saiga at 100 yards about a month back (not the 7.62x39).

(which also was my 2nd outing with her). This is with a 6x32 NCStar scope and a sandbag (Caldwell) rest.

 

Complete topic was posted w/video under 5.45 section I think. Was doing about 3 1/4" at 100 yards

 

 

 

 

Then at 2 weeks ago I was doing 200 Yards and getting 5-6" Groups with the 5.45x39

 

 

 

At 25 yards I was doing umm. VERY SMALL (AR'ish) 2 1/4" groups with the 6x32 scope also.

 

 

But no worries when I get more ammo I'll video the rifle (from the side on the bench) and setup a clean target for all out at 200. Another poster shoots 200 into those 39oz Coffee Cans.. Pics on the forum somewhere.. So yes its possible..

[blkgunlvr 31]

I'm really not trying to slam you or rain on your parade. But as a Navy pistol instructor I'm certain that you know how to score a competition target and "group size" is the most extreme spread between any two bullet holes, which makes none of your photos any less than 4 to 6 inches at 100. your 25 yard target I'm afraid does not show "AR accuracy" because groups do not reduce at range, but expand and that target is 8" at 100 and closer to 20" at 200, a group that big at 200 is "AR accuracy" and that target is good AK accuracy, but not even close. No flame, I appreciate your enthusiasm and you do have a fine shooting rifle, I believe it may group better than either of my 5.45x39s, but I would never personally try to claim that either is more than a 6" grouping gun at 100 m or 8 to 10" at 200 m - they are just not built to shoot any better than that (there are rare exceptions, but design, variations in mil-surp ammo and other factors are undeniable.) Please don't be offended, that is not my intention.

[paprotective 362]

Actually the SQUARE target is 12" BC ShootNC (200 yard pics) with an 8" BC ShootNC centered up on it.

 

The FACTORY cert (which has no bearing per the boards quorum) is 106mm on the test cert for 100 meters.

Which also by the forum should be reduced by introducing a new FCG group into the mix.

 

I was mocking AR's per se by the fact all the shots at 25 yards were TIGHT like an AR would be out at 100/200 etc.. Not saying my Saiga 5.45 is an AR at all.

 

So 4 shots (furthest hole to furthest hole) at 1 1/4" spread would be BAD??

 

Then subsquent shots opened it up to 2 1/2". I measured in all directions. I still have the targets laying here.

 

 

And how do I explain it to the guy next to me at the range that is amazed at it that its not real, and I that its not a semi-auto AK variant Saiga??

 

I used to have an AR and they do have there features/benefits. Though at $800+ now I will not have one anytime soon.

 

Most AK's can't do it very well. I would agree. I saw a WASR AK guy today having a TON of jam issues.. He was rude so I passed on helping him.

 

I would try 250 but don't have the room and the 5.45 seems to max out (for me anyway) in consitency of shots at that 200 yard range. I'll call it 6" at 200 and be happy. I can get the 'pumpkin' head at 200 and be .

 

For long range I use the 6x scope, for anything less than 100 I'll stick to the 'irons'.

 

The 7.62x39 does 4-6" swaths at 100 yards which is the 'norm'. Which I am also happy with.

 

I think the fact the 5.45 has less kick than my 7.62 makes me flinch/anticipate less and keeps me on target (that and the bag/rest). IMHO.

 

 

Al

[blkgunlvr 31]

I'm not going to continue the debate, because I'm not challenging your word, but the photo you are posting is 8 holes and you are claiming 1-1/2 inch for a pair of holes? The 4 in the 10 ring are easily 2"+ by your ruler in the photo. If you take the extreme for the 8 (highest to lowest and furthest left to furthest right) it's 3 to 4", again by your ruler.

 

Your factory cert target at 100 m is 105 mm? That's 4.13 inches, and a different trigger group would make no difference, because the rifle is clamped into a jig and fired with no recoil or trigger pull effect and that should be very close to the maximum structural and mechanical ability of the gun, or 4.13" at 100 m, so 4" at 200 yards is out of the question.

[paprotective 362]

Ok I broke out the 100 yard target.

 

I got 2 5/8" going from hole-hole on BOTH the farthest point.

 

I also re-measured the 4 shot group (thats a 1" DOT).

 

The ruler does not lie.

 

I've been 'shooting' since from when I was 9yo-14 and then at 25yo-now. Thats about 19 years total.

 

Here is the pics. Not debating just PROVING my facts. I did 3 groups at 200 that were 5-6".

 

 

Maybe I can get some 4" clays and put them at 100 yards next time and video them getting hit??

 

I am not the only person on here shooting 200 yards groups of under 5-7".