Im out...

[schmiddy 2]

I thought. But I'm right back in.

 

I sold my stock configured saiga-12 taking advantage of the market and "hope" to pick up another one when the market comes off. In my defense I told my friend over and over to just wait and he'll be able to find them for a better price in 6 months. He was obsessed and HAD to have it now. So its amicable I guess.

 

 

NOW>>>

 

he wants me to upgrade it for him. SIGH...

 

SO>>>>>

 

I want to do a good job since i didn't let him have it cheap.

 

 

What I need>>>>>

 

is advise on conversion kits. Not the bling. Just the great quality kit that is the diamond in the rough. Quality without breaking the bank keeping all laws in mind for over all length and 922r compliance.

 

Additional question>>>>

 

Am I going to loose the BHO by converting? I'd really like to keep it if possible.

 

 

Disclaimer>>>>>

Sorry for the noob "whats the best kit" question. With all my other builds Ive never had a chance to wade through the S-12 stuff. I've done some searching here but cant seem to come up with a recent thread on the subject. I very much appreciate your advise on the build! I'll reciprocate with experiences and pictures of the build.

 

 

 

 

[romad7 75]

Any of the kits from Carolina Shooters Supply should be fine, pick the one that you like best. The ones that come with the receiver block need the rear tang cut so consider that.

 

Get the axis pin retaining plate.

 

BHO can be kept the same after conversion.

[gunfun 3,931]

Welcome. I expected an attention whine with that subject line.

 

Same advice I give to everyone wanting to convert. Buy once, save money. Reliability comes from simple work (read the link in my sig line) not from buying parts. Don't buy a low brass kit.

 

Go through the whole picture thread and take note of everything that you want. Then ask yourself if you want those parts just for looks or for a practical purpose. A shotgun should be light. Looks can be a valid reason to get something, but if you aren't sure whether you want it bad or not, leave it off.

 

You can keep the BHO.

 

All the conversion kits are fine, but I would suggest getting the parts piecemeal. Any trigger guard will be about equally good. That comes down to taste and whether you want an AR or AK style of grip, and if AK whether you want to do your own PG nut or have it built in. I like having a separate nut, because it allows other configurations (such as a silly slide fire for instance.)

 

Another reason to go with piecemeal is that I suggest doing a trigger job rather than buying a one size fits all drop in trigger. Those err on the side of safety and have lots of play to account for varying tolerances. 20 minutes of fitting to an unmodified g2 double hook will get you a dramatically better trigger and save you $15. See the other link in my sig for how.

 

Here is a basic shopping list that ends up with a mid low priced build that is every bit as good looking and functional as you could ask for.

 

Stock: KVAR fixed. Warsaw length + sissy pad added by you. If you can get a blem it is about $25

Trigger guard: MD arms or AK builder + PG nut. A little more work, but classic looks.

Forend: Factory or KVAR

Pistol grip: MD arms $12.

Trigger group: Tapco G2 double hook + a half hour of careful mods~$30

puck: tapco or MD $8-12 (for compliance parts with all mags if your stock is not US made.)

end of barrel: nothing or winchoke adapter - S-12 Winchoke Adapters - Cobra's Custom - forum.Saiga-12.com

 

This is a build I did with a few cheaper parts and a few more expensive, but with more work. http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?/gallery/album/820-build-2-iz-108/ The album description has the shopping list with parts.

 

You have a lot of other choices, the top list gets you a very solid, light classy basic build that won't leave you wanting more.

 

Sure there are things I like like folders and magwells too. If you want those things, get them from the beginning.

+1 on retaining plate. Make sure it is made for S12, as generic AK plates are not the right dimension.

 

Do the basic BHO mod.

[travistp 63]

If trigger group is moved forward....

 

Stock= Bonesteel side folder (amazing stock) or as gunfun said your warsaw kvar stock. Which as of right now I have one for sale.

PUCK= MD ARMS OR CSS

PLUG= Dph 6 pos. Adjustible / Tac-47 manual or auto plug

KVAR foreend as gunfun said.

The rest of what gunfun said.

 

BONESTEEL ARMS

CAROLINA SHOOTERS SUPPLY

TAC-47 INC.

 

they will become your favorite websites.

[schmiddy 2]

Thanks so much fellers! Ya'll gave me some great direction here. Agree with build once build right. Love tapco double hook triggers; tighter than my wife's tail pipe and easier to insert. The rest I'll have to wade through and make some decisions. The problem with piecing it out is my buddy has more money than sense. I have to sell him on the build before I start buying parts. I dont have the patients to walk him through every part individually. His eyes will glass over before I get beyond the stock decision. He a faux gun guy. Owns them, loves them, but has no technical knowledge. But I still have to do it right for no other reason than my name on the build. I ain't going to have people all over town laughing at my build. Otherwise he can build it himself.

 

I had planned on taking the rear tang to my belt grinder, but if keeping it is a possibility then I might go that route. I'll check it out.

 

Thanks again! I'll revert.

[travistp 63]

You can keep the rear tang by using the BONESTEEL ARMS Left/Right side folder (Your choice to make on the gun you have.) Usings the tang and its absolutely lovely, plus his recoil pads come out in 2 weeks if that..

 

IF I had the money.

 

I would:

Bonesteel Arms side folding AK stock
G2 Tapco Trigger

CHAOS TITAN Rail (230-250$) But its worth every bit of it if you want to maximize your rail length and ability. (I want one myself but my kid/girl get the money first )

Css Reliability kit (Use the gas puck and DPH gas adjustment.. UNLESS you wanna go AUTOPLUG with tac47, you just cannot shoot 3" magnums with it.) DO NOT USE THE SPRING THAT COMES WITH THIS KIT... its pointless lol, i use the regular spring

EXTENDED MAGAZINE RELEASE

JTE SHOTGUN PERFORMANCE GUIDE ROD (keeps the spring straight and instead of all jewjew but hey.. most people dont use them, I will be ordering one soon.)

SGM MAGWELL or TAC-47 MAGWELL (you will have to buy or modify your own stick mags and drums do not work with these yet?)

Molot GK-01 MUZZLE BRAKE (REAL RUSSIANS are the way to go although CSS makes a US COPY thats pretty good.)

 

OR if he wanted to spend the money, have the barrel chopped into 2 and add a mid barrel compensator instead.. around "$300.00" with the brake and service.

 

You can find this all at :

www.carolinashooterssupply.com

www.tac47.com

The rest is furniture really.

 

Thats what I would do to mine.. Have fun blowing money and if he has a unlimited supply, ask him for my suggestions and his gun, he should buy me a chaos titan too !! haha

[dubya 198]

The best "kit" is the one you build yourself. Only YOU know what YOU want. You'll need to pick out the parts you want; buttstock, pistol grip, trigger guard, trigger group (Tapco G2 most likely), handguard (stock one works fine),. Then a few optional parts if you have the money like; puck, gas plug, different sights/ optics, muzzle attachments....

Just remember that the gun should be firing the ammo you'll most often shoot before anything is changed.

 

ETA: Carolina Shooters Supply has everything you'll need all in one stop, fast shipping, good prices and if you have a question Greg is happy to email you an answer promptly.

Edited May 18, 2013 by dubya

[gunfun 3,931]

I like the design of the JTE magwells better, but TAC 47 is good, provided that you reinforce the mags where they engage the magwell. That only works with AR style grips IIRC.

 

I would also add Tac47 autoplug to the list if he has money and will spend without a fuss. It is very worthwhile.

[schmiddy 2]

Ah hell! My buddy wants to be "involved" with the build. What that really means is standing over my shoulder and second guessing every step while I do all the work. I don't suffer fools gladly.

 

I'm going to skip the magwell idea for now. I gave him 4 x 10rnd SGM mags to go with the S12. Somehow I doubt he's going to let me start cutting them up.

 

As much as I'd personally love the big Russian brake, I dont think my buddy will appreciate. What would be better is a good door breecher like the Monster Claw Small.

 

Im going to push the galil style folder for the above mentioned reasons, but otherwise ill go kvar. Ive basically put the list together.

 

ONE QUESTION TODAY....

I think Im going to get one of those pin retaining plates for my maadi at the same time. Ive always been suspicious of the pins/retaining spring on mine. SO WHICH ONE? I know nothing about them except they are relatively cheap.

[HighPlainsDrifter 466]

I think Im going to get one of those pin retaining plates for my maadi at the same time. Ive always been suspicious of the pins/retaining spring on mine. SO WHICH ONE?

 

This is another arguement that goes back and forth. It really doesn't matter. The plate is easier to install.

 

Trigger guard: MD arms or AK builder + PG nut. A little more work, but classic looks.

 

My question is for GunFun or anyone else who has used either MD Arms or AK Builder's trigger guard. I'd like to rivet my trigger guard but I don't have the tools. I know AK Builder also sells a trigger guard rivet press. Would this be the easiest way to install and if so does it only work with the AK builder's trigger guard? Also, can an extended magazine release be used with either trigger guard?

 

My preference is to go with the AK Builder. I definitely like the look.

 

Thanks in advance.

[gunfun 3,931]

If you can rig a chunk of steel to serve as an anvil to get in the right places, you can do rivets with a ball peen hammer. This can be as simple as sticking a chunk of steel that will fit in the trigger guard in a vice. If you want domed heads, take a good hard punch and drill an indentation into the end. Then use a round diamond rotary burr to uniform the drill dent. I haven't used MD or AK builder, but I have re-used the factory Trigger guard. MD and AK builder are more correct to the S12 K type models, and save a lot of work.

[schmiddy 2]

Todays question..;somewhat of a silly one...if I buy a muzzle brake with a hex shaped head should I buy the hex shaped lock? Will I be able to get the flat surfaces match up without getting into a shim situation? Or should I just get the Russian one? I know this is menial but sometimes those little details make the difference in a great looking rifle and one that hurts your eyes.

 

 

One more question. The Firestorm Brake. Anyone have experience? Its got some Russian-esc cuts and just looks like it might be all around effective? My personal choice is on the surface I like it! Plus it comes with the lock making it about $30 cheaper than the monster claw.

Edited May 22, 2013 by schmiddy

[gunfun 3,931]

With any comp, you can use a lock nut, or simply put plumber's teflon tape on there for friction to index it. Both work. The chaos lock nut may or may not line line up the same when it comes tight.

[schmiddy 2]

Gotcha, That's what I was thinking and didnt really want to mess with shims to get it to line up. Russian flat side it is... I'll be using this in conjunction with high temp thread lock. This way I can ensure a tight lock up and proper alignment of the brake. Most would say overkill for a shotgun. I guess its just habitual after dealing with baffle strikes on a suppressor that came loose.

[travistp 63]

Just use blue loctite. Worked perfect and could still get it off with handtools and a blow dryer.. incase you have to take it apart.

[schmiddy 2]

Gunfun, I enjoyed your write up on the modified G2. Kinda wish I tried that before I cut a notch in my Maddi receiver. My neighbors a machinist and I own a file. lol Hindsight 20/20

[schmiddy 2]

Just use blue loctite. Worked perfect and could still get it off with handtools and a blow dryer.. incase you have to take it apart.

Loctite 246 is a medium strength (hand tools) rated for up to 450 degrees. Threebond makes a similar product.

 

 

Also 243...

Edited May 22, 2013 by schmiddy

[schmiddy 2]

So here's where Im at...amazing Ive got this far while getting other work done. Please look at these two builds and tell me if there is any omissions or things I'm forgetting or things that wont work or things I should be aware of. I want to get my order right the first time so I have everything I need when I get to work. Maybe hardware I've omitted?

 

 

 

 

 

BASIC BUILD

 

KVAR WARSAW STOCK $ 50.00

CIA Standard AK GRIP - $11.00

CSS BOLT ON TRIGGER GUARD - $45.00

Tapco Double Hook Trigger - $29.00

Hole Plugs $1.00
Axis Pin Retaining Plate $6.00

CSS puck - $19

 

total - $161+Shipping

 

PREMIUM BUILD (less work for me)

Stock, Bonesteel left side forlder - $155.00 (separate shipping)

CIA GRIP - $11.00

CSS BOLT ON TRIGGER GUARD - $45.00

Tapco Double Hook Trigger - $29.00

Hole Plugs $1.00

Axis Pin Retaining Plate $6.00

DPH PLUG - $25

CSS puck - $19

 

TOTAL - $291+shipping

 

 

EXTRA ADD-ONS:

KVAR HANDGAURD - $59

Monster Claw Small Brake - $99.00

With Russian style lock ring - $9.00

OR Firestorm Brake - $79 (including lock ring) (separate shipping)

If I add the KVAR HANDGAURD can I ditch the CSS Puck and still be parts compliant on the "Basic Build" when using import magazine?

[gunfun 3,931]

Gunfun, I enjoyed your write up on the modified G2. Kinda wish I tried that before I cut a notch in my Maddi receiver. My neighbors a machinist and I own a file. lol Hindsight 20/20

 

Thanks. It causes me pain every time I read that someone just cut a second notch in the floor of their receiver. This is such a simple mod for someone with patience, and it doesn't require screwing with any surface hardened engagement surfaces or angles.

 

I don't use loctite on my muzzle screw on bits, because I switch between comps and chokes. I have an MD 10 slot flash hider/breacher that serves little purposes other than looks, but everyone really thinks that looks good.

[gunfun 3,931]

And your list looks good, but I would rather have Tac47 plug. For the manual adjustible type, I think I would rather have MD plug, simply because DPH apparently can be hard to turn because it has very solid clicks. It does have one more step than MD though, so your call.

 

Make sure you select an S-12 plate or you will be sad. It is not the same spacing as AK or other saigas.

I don't know about russian lock nut. My point is that any lock nut is a jamb nut and comes tight wherever it comes tight. If any style has flats, they might not line up. This is not super fine tuned like aligning a suppressor. The clearance in all the muzzle jobbies is fairly large, except for chokes or paradox rifled chokes. For that matter S12 threads and even the OD of the barrel are not necessarily concentric to bore.

Edited May 22, 2013 by GunFun

[schmiddy 2]

"For that matter S12 threads and even the OD of the barrel are not necessarily concentric to bore."

 

haha I bet... ASTM/ASME doesnt have oversight on gun manufacturers, just us forum folks.

 

I'm figuring the Russian lock ring will be less distracting when it doesn't match up then a hex. That's all.

 

+1 to the "looks cool" and its really at the bottom of my add on list but I'll leave that to my buddy if he wants to pony up the $$$.

 

 

 

I watched your youtube "magazine magic" video. Is that the JTE magwell? Looked like it engaged well. Locks up tight and cycles well?

 

 

 

I think I'm going to skip on the gas plug situation for now. KISS is the word. I don't want to confuse him with multiple settings and I already know that gun wont cycle light loads on setting 1 and I really don't want to get into opening it up enough to run the tac47 plug. I'll do some playing around with different ammo and then decide.

Edited May 23, 2013 by schmiddy

[gunfun 3,931]

Yes, that is JTE, in the form he currently sells (IIRC Gen III or IV???) I am very pleased with it. I would say that fitting magazines properly takes skill and patience, and the average home builder would mess it up and blame the parts. I also added some material to my mags to change the rear profile so that they have an even more positive hold that will wear in more slowly if at all.

 

I set mine up to have a fairly snug fit. Competition guys often make them a little looser for tolerance and clean drop free. I hate rattles. Mine will drop free 90% of the time, or 100% if I give a little twitch as I hit the lever, or tilt the barrel down.

 

Here is a thread where I tried to make sure all the current magwell choices and considerations are listed if you are looking into that.

 

Magwells -

Edited May 23, 2013 by GunFun