shades_of_grey

So, not a lot of love for the Surefire 12 rnd mags, eh? I just bought 5 of em for $47 apiece. Actually I just bought a Saiga 12 IZ-109 on gunbroker today, and bought those mags because I suspected they would not last at that price. The 12 rounders do look pretty damn long, but I couldn't pass up that shell capacity for that price, esp as most online shops seem to be sold out and they are going for ~$65+ each on gunbroker now. Besides their length, are there any other significant downsides to the Surefire 12 rnd mags?

For what it's worth, your rifle seems to be the exception, not the rule.

Who's the importer and when was yours made? RAA, '08. Ah, well good news for you and that gives me some hope that the NIB Arsenal SGL20 I've recently bought online, (yet to be delivered, damn it), will not bulge brass necks either. As it was built in a cooperative effort between Legion at Izhmash and Arsenal US, hopefully it will be of a new enough and choice enough manufacture that it will not "step" its fired cartridges. I s'pose we'll see. It should arrive early next week.

Is the one on the right a Saiga or a Romanian..? I don't see dimples and I do see a 45 degree gas block.. I thought all Saigas had the more modern 90 degree gas blocks?

Yep, CtD will get none of my business in the future.. what they're doing is detestable. In my experience, they're a bunch of dicks anyway.

Who's the importer and when was yours made?

.223's are for varmint control. I aleady have a Rock River M4, so I didn't even consider buying a Saiga in .223. And, of course, I had no idea that Saiga 7.62x39's had this "stepped" cases issue when I bought it. It doesn't seem to be common knowledge in the general AK world. It's not that big a deal, it just kind of sucks, especially if it reduces muzzle velocity.. which it must, right?

How's that? you have to resize the case necks anyway, don't ya? Yeah but the "step" has got to put more stress on the brass when resized than a "regular" casing fired from any other AK variant would experience. So, you'll get fewer reloads from each casing.

Do you think they really care about that? Their bottom line is $$$$. I know... damn those slippery Cossack sluts.

None whatsoever. How would it? By using some of the potential energy of the powder to expand the brass to create the "step". I'm curious to see if the SGL20 I ordered, (should finally arrive next Monday, I can't wait), has this "feature". I'm sure it probably will.. and it's not really a big deal.. just kind of sucks for reloading purposes, (which I'm forced to consider due to the ammo shortage and inflated prices). Oh and btw, here are some pics of what I bought, (just from the auction, unfortunately):

Quick question on this subject to all the longtime Saiga owners: does this "step" that the Saiga firing chamber puts into the neck of the casing reduce the round's muzzle velocity? It seems a drastic step to take, (changing the design of the firing chamber), just to have a visual reference as to whether spent brass was fired from a "sporting" Saiga or one of the dozens of other AK variants from the rest of Europe/Asia. Damn Russians.. exporting their rather retarded and unnecessary gun-control measures over here. We've got more than enough of our own as it is.

Wow. Price gouging like that is detestable. $0.49 per round for unreloadable Wolf? That's insane. They really need to quit huffin the paint over at CtD..

In these dark days under the heel of King Barry, when it comes to the price of "naughty" cartridges like the 7.62x39, "smokin deal" needs to be redefined. ~$0.29/rnd, (the above ammoman deal), is the cheapest I've found anywhere lately, and that price includes shipping.. so I bought 1k of it. Checked back later in the day and he's now stopped accepting orders so he can "catch up". I seriously doubt he's got any of it left.. the demand is so high. I should've bought 2k.. damn it Oh and btw, thanks for the heads-up, duece212. I'll definitely be checking ammoman regularly from now on.

Meh, no biggie. It's just a cosmetic feature. I have 1 with dimples, 1 without. No functional difference in either. Well, they are a good tactile reference for changing mags in complete darkness, (which you'll probably never have to do).. other than that, it doesn't matter whether your receiver has em or not. My GP WASR 10/63, (got lucky and got one made with a stockpiled mil-spec matching parts set), doesn't have dimples, but it does have steel plates welded inside the receiver that do just as good if not a better job of stabilizing the magazines. This rifle has almost zero mag

Huh.. I'd never heard of this deliberate case expansion by Saigas before. Can anyone confirm one way or the other whether or not Arsenal's SGL20 model includes this undesirable "feature"? As others have mentioned, this has got to reduce muzzle velocity...

If you've got heat-shields for your handguards, why would anyone replace em just to get rails for vert grips etc? If your target is too close for the quick use of the red dot, you need to be using your shotgun or pistol rather than your rifle, so no laser sight is worth carrying on a AK. The same argument can be made for excluding a rail mounted flashlight. As for vert grips, the AK has one already built in: the front of the magazine. I just don't think replacing the handguards is necessary or desirable and it adds weight to the rifle, (very rarely worth it). Specifically to the OP: co

If you've got heat-shields for your handguards, why would anyone replace em just to get rails for vert grips etc? If your target is too close for the quick use of the red dot, you need to be using your shotgun or pistol rather than your rifle, so no laser sight is worth carrying on a AK. The same argument can be made for excluding a rail mounted flashlight. As for vert grips, the AK has one already built in: the front of the magazine. I just don't think replacing the handguards is necessary or desirable and it adds weight to the rifle, (very rarely worth it). Specifically to the OP: co

Very nice pics... I'm surprised you haven't replaced the pistol grip at the least.. if not also the stock, sights, etc. I've got a AK74 24mm muzzle brake on the way for mine, (since the auction I won only came with the "thread protector"), and I already have a replacement pistol grip, (CAA UPG47), and collapsible stock waitin for her. I plan to also put a LaRue AK Irondot on her and I figure she'll be just about perfect at that point, (vertical forward grips, rail-mounted flashlights, laser sights etc are unnecessary on a AKM imo).

Yes, I'm familiar with what they are and where they come from. I'm also familiar with Arsenal's marketing department and how they do things. So, please forgive my admitted ignorance, but please expound on how Arsenal's marketing department "does things". Are they truly dishonest?

I was lazy and just bought an Arsenal SGL20 online, cost plenty, but I'd rather let Legion and Arsenal do the work. It should be here in a week or so.. I, also, can't wait.

Whether you prefer steel or poly mags.. the best ones are imported and thus will be banned by King Barry and his Merry Band of Socialists before long. I personally prefer steel, as it can't shatter like poly can. Afaik all steel mags are imports, so if I were you, I'd focus on acquiring at least 6-8, (per rifle), of those first. After you've got those, bulgarian poly mags seem to be the best available.. (I recently bought a couple 40 round bulgarian polys, they're fun).

I had a 3060M (milled) on order for 6 months. Finally I gave up on Lancaster and got my money back. They have some real issues over there. There is a guy over on the akfiles.com who can tell you all kinds of stories about their owner and his allegedly shady business practices. Post pics of the SGL20 when it arrives, Id love to see how it compares to the POS lancaster. The really facked up part is, when I called Lancaster to verify that it was one of their rifles, (because it was not built nearly as well as I'd heard), after it was confirmed to be one of theirs, I talked to a guy th

I posted those pics. They are of a Lancaster model 3060 "Russian Red" rifle I recently bought, found to be unacceptably flawed, and returned for a refund. They're not of a Saiga. I don't have pics of the Arsenal SGL20 I bought just yet... as I just bought it online.

Really? So you don't think they're at least as high quality as a straight-up Saiga sporter that has been well converted over here by anyone else? These have everything but the pistol grip done by the Legion custom rifle shop at Izhmash from everything I've read. Why wouldn't they be as high quality as any full/partial conversion done by a private/commercial gunsmith over here? Also, what do you think of that Lancaster build? Pretty sloppy, no?

Howdy all.. new to the board and it seems a pretty damn good source of info. I just bought an Arsenal SGL20, (plum furniture, NATO stock), and was wondering what this board's members' experiences with em were. My first semi-auto AK was a GP WASR 10/63 that I bought in January pretty much in a panic when I realized what King Barry must be fixin' to do, (yeah I was a little slow on that one), and I got a roughly-finished rifle made from mil-spec parts, matching set made in 1964. Anyway, not satisfied with the finish of the WASR, (though it's dead-on at 100yds out of the box so I'm keepin