another new guy

[puddlejumper 0]

Hi, I've been watching the site for some time now getting info on the saiga rifle.

It's main use would be as a target/ hunting rifle. White tail deer would be the largest game I would hunt. My question is which caliber would any of you recommend? I normally use a 30-30 and feel the 7.62x39 would be a good choice.

I have never owned a .223 so I don't know if it would be a good choice. I hunt mostly wooded areas so a 75 yard shot would be a long one under normal circumstances. Target shooting would probably be out to 300 yards.

I've been around guns most of my life and know that bullet placement is usually what affects the results.

Any input would be appreciated.

[Tengu 0]

Puddlejumper:

 

7.62 x 39 has ballistics nearly identical to the 30-30 so it should be adequate for white tails. Use the heavier soft point bullets like WOLF 154gr for deer hunting.

 

As far as target shooting, the Saiga 7.62 x 39 isn't a tack driver. If you want a Saiga that is inherently more accurate, choose the.308.

[G O B 3,516]

puddle jumper,

 

What Tengu said.

 

G O B

Edited May 4, 2004 by G O B

[Bigfoot Wallace 0]

I think Tengu said it all!

[BattleRifleG3 16]

The Saiga 308 is best for accuracy and hunting whitetail due to ballistics and inherent accuracy, as noted above. The advantages of the other two are inexpensive ammo for rapid fire, lower recoil, ability to convert to hi-cap mags, and lower price. For your listed uses, the 308 seems best.

[puddlejumper 0]

Hmmm...

Hadn't really thought about the .308 I wasn't sure of durability with a higher power round in an action originally designed for the 7.62x39. It would definitly do the job on Deer and would give me more choices on handloads. I can get the 7.62x39 locally for 189.00 not sure of .223 or .308 guess I'll check on that before I decide.

Not really planning on a conversion, but who knows. I might get bit by the bug.

Thanks for the input. This is a great site! I'm glad I found It.

 

Puddlejumper

[Bvamp 604]

In some areas, you cant hunt with .223 . The good thing about the 223 if you can use it, as well as the 308, is the quality ammo from major manufacturers that you can get. 308 can also get pretty steep for an afternoon of target practice. But for plinking and other general use, I prefer 7.62x39 myself. I know guys here that hunt with 7.62x39 in the woods (under 100 yards to target in my parts normally) and have good success with it. Wolf ammo and the other russian import ammo is so cheap its hard to go wrong. You can order 7.62x39 by the brick from places like www.cheaperthandirt.com for under 100 bucks a 1000 round brick, plus shipping. But if you are going to use it mostly to hunt with, 308 would definately be the better choice by far I think.

 

The other thing to think about is how far your average shot will be. A Kalishnakov action really isnt for out past 200 yards, although im sure the 308 chambering would perform adequately if you do take longer shots. I, myself, have never even shot any AK type out past about 125 yards, and I can hang my groups under 3" or so without a scope or a bench rest at that range if I take my time, and use a sling to tighten my stance and grip up. Also, for a semi automatic weapon, the recoil is mild enough to give you a fairly quick follow up shot at shorter ranges. Figure AK types FEEL about 1/2 what the same round would kick you in a bolt action rifle.

[puddlejumper 0]

I can use .223 here on Deer. (Eastern Okla.) I have never used a .223 for hunting and would be concerned about a clean kill. I prefer heart/lung shot and I've heard that that is not the best way to use a .223. No presonal experience just hearsay.

I do like the prices I've seen for ammo on both .223 and 7.62 plus the price of the gun is better on those two than the .308. around here the prices are:

7.62 16 or 20 inch 199.00

.223 16 or 20 inch 239.00

.308 16 inch 269.00

.308 22 inch 299.00

I think the .308 are the synthetic stock version.

I will probably go with 7.62 or .223 and give up the long range target shooting and go for the fun factor with good hunting capability.

Two more questions if I can.

how does the .223 perform on Deer compared to 7.62 and which barrel length would be best for either cal. or would there be no difference in performance at typical hunting ranges. Mostly under 75 yards.

sorry for being so long winded.

thanks in advance.

Puddlejumper.

[Tengu 0]

PuddleJumper:

 

The .223 is also legal for deer in my home state. a well placed heart/lung shot on a white tail with a .223 soft nosed hunting bullet would be absolutely devastating. With normal loads @ 3000-3200 fps it would have the same effect as a death ray.

 

The .308 would be just as deadly and at longer range. I killed a 500 lb feral hog with a .308 and when i was field dressing it I couldn't believe how much damage the bullet caused. I was aiming for the heart lung area and the hog turned to the right just as I pulled the trigger. The bullet struck the hog in the left hip, traveled through nearly every internal organ and blew out 3 ribs on the right side. That was a Remington factory load with a .180 grain round nose Corelokt bullet.

 

THe 7.62 X 39 would be at least as good as your 30-30, so it's up to you which one you pick. If you were like me you would get all 3 just so all the bases were covered.

 

You can never have too many guns.

Edited May 16, 2004 by Tengu

[puddlejumper 0]

Tengu,

I like the way you think.

When it comes to guns, you can never have too many toys.

I figured the .223 had been given a bum rap, but never having used one I wanted to get someones opinion that had first hand knowledge. As a matter of fact I'm planning to buy two of them. One will be for my Dad to use for hunting with me. I had decided against the 308 because of the higher price. It is an excellent round though. Now that I know that the .223 will do well on Deer, I will probably get one of each(.223 and 7.62). If I read another thread right, the barrel length shouldn't have to much affect at the shorter ranges. Is that right?

Thanks again.

Puddlejumper.

[Siagalova 0]

I chose to buy the 7.62X39 with the 20" bbl. With the open sights, right out of the box, it is accurate as hell - out to 150yds without adjusting the elevation sights. Well, as accurate as wolf ammo would allow!

I have heard, numerous times, that the 7.62X39 has almost the same ballistics as the 30-30. I would guess the same range too.

I put a very cheap red dot scope on mine sighted at 100 yards. Now everyone who picks up my gun (at the local range) shoots like a champ!

I found a local gun store that sells that bear match grade ammo, this gun is surprisingly dead on!

In fact I out shot these guys with ruger 10/22's for acuracy, they even had 10X scopes.

I think it's the perfect round for sasquatch - he'll rue the day I run in to him!

[puddlejumper 0]

Thanks for the info Saigalova,

I Think I'll probably get the 7.62 model in the 16 inch bbl

I like the looks and I don't think 4 inchs will make a whole lot of diff. at my normal hunting ranges.

I will go with a 4x scope I already have and will try those 154 gr. ammo that wolf makes. I may try to roll my own if I can work up a good load. Hand loading info is hard to find on 7.62.

For fun, I will just buy the cheaper by the 1000 stuff from cheaper than dirt.

good shooting

Puddlejumper.

[Bvamp 604]

if you are short range, you must have lower light, so get a scope with a lit reticle. dont plan to reload 7.62x39...the wolf ammo works well for me for my uses. the gun you are thinking of looks about right, if you already think so, to me, from what you have said in total. you should get a lifetime of use from it at the least cost possible. You can have a good stalk with one of these types of weapons, because of its complete reliability once they are worn in, and because of the decent accuracy at the 100-150 yard marker. A 16" BBL sounds perfect for your needs, and you should be able to take a variety of game with it, and still move around with it with ease and knowledge that it will not only work, but wont surprise you if you arent "careful with it" when you are moving with it. Great pack rifle in the woods if you ask me.

Edited May 17, 2004 by Bvamp

[Siagalova 0]

I've always kinda wondered about that - I'm not a hunter (yet), how safe is it to be walking around with a round chambered? or is that what you are talking about? I mean the trigger does have a whopping hook for the hammer.

when I'm at the range no one load's the gun 'til they're ready to shoot - and I mean no one. Call me paranoid, I just don't want there to be any chance for anyone to space off, ya know.

But when yer huntin' I guess you always have to be ready right?

There was a time about six months ago when we were just plinkin' around and I go off to take a piss - and sure as shit down the valley about 150 yards was a herd of elk! with the siaga, seems to me that I could have sprayed every one! Beautiful animals, they lept straight up the hill effortlessly - after checking me out for about thiry seconds!

I had just gotten the gun and was unfamilliar with the 7.62 round, I shot a round or two at a stump that was in the area where they just were. I coulda gottum!

[puddlejumper 0]

Saigalova,

The 7.62 is a little less powerful than a 30-30 because of a lighter bullet. The Wolf 154 gr. is about 200 ft/sec slower than the 150 gr. in a 30-30. I have heard of people using them (30-30) on Elk, but most limit their shots to 100 yds or less.

Elk can absorb a lot uf lead and keep going.

The 7.62 would probably down one but I would want to be pretty close the first time I tried it with a 7.62.

As far as having a chambered round while hunting, It depends on your style of hunting. When I hunt from a stand I wait till I get in place to load. However if a person is going to still hunt you want to be ready to go as you never know when you will get a shot. It is an unbelievable thrill when you can stalk a deer and get a shot at it. It means you managed to outwit it in it's own turf. Very hard to do.

 

Can't wait to get mine and try it out. I'm waiting on a good overtime check coming up.

 

good shooting.

Puddlejumper

[Bvamp 604]

the russian guns seem to be better for safety reasons, as they seem up to date more or less with american law... maybe it's due to mr kalishnakov....I would have given him a medal too...

Edited May 18, 2004 by Bvamp

[puddlejumper 0]

Bvamp,

Thanks for the input.

I know a lot of people like the .308 for Deer and I've owned one myself. But I like using my 30-30 it has always done the job. If I were Elk hunting it would be a different story. As I see it the 7.62 would be like having a semi auto 30-30.

I do like stalking for the greater challenge. Most of the time I get skunked but that's part of the fun right?

Can't wait to get mine. Actually I'm buying two and giving one to my Dad for his Birthday.

I've heard that Saigas chew up the brass is that why you don't recommend reloads or is it a bad idea to hand load that round at all? I was planning on using new brass and trying out different dia. bullets to see what affect it would have on accuracy.

 

Puddlejumper

[Bvamp 604]

well, its kind of the same round the 30/30 and 7.62x39 ... but not quite... check it out, its cheap as hell to shoot a lot of rounds off on your day off in 7.62x39...i buy the russian 7.62x39 for about 2 dollars for 20 rounds...how much is that in 30/30 cheap brass? Trying to make a point, I hope you got it...

 

by the way, almost all of the 7.62x39 ammo i have seen and/or used has been steel casings....you cant reload them...79 bucks a 1000 rounds? hell, who would want to for that price? I say use it for what it is and be happy....

Edited May 18, 2004 by Bvamp