A serious question Regarding Saiga.

[Tigerclaw_x 1]

There are several worthy rifles in 7.62x39

Yugo M70 - Heavy duty 1.6mm RPK style receiver, 16 inch barrel, 10, 20, 30 mags.

Yugo SKS - Very well made, 20.5 inch barrel. 10 inch capacity

Vepr - Heavy duty 1.6mm actual RPK receiver 16 or 20.5 inch barrel. However, needs MAJOR revamp to take high cap mags

Saiga. This one, is a rather hard call. It's accuracy in 308 is significantly worse then Veprs, because it is too light for the round.

It has 1.2mm receiver. It can have a 20.5inch barrel. It needs only minor modifications to take hi cap mags.

My questions are:

1) How does a 20.5 barrel 7.62x39 saiga compares in accuracy to SKS.

2) How does a 20.5 barrel 7.62x39 saiga compares in accuracy to Yugo M70 AK (16inch barrel).

3) Is it possible to install a 20.5 inch Saiga Barrel on Yugo M70?

4) How do you mod Vepr to take AK mags? (Yes, I know I will need to add 5 US made parts: flashhider, Stock, Wooden furniture, Trigger group)

 

Thank you very much. I am trying to decide on a rifle in 7.62x39. Where Vepr 2 available at their old price (550 dollars) I would not even bother asking a question. However, I am a beginning gun owner (I only have 3 pistols), and would dearly love and appreciate to have more experienced, knowing people to advice me.

 

Thank you in advance

[BlenderWizard 12]

1. I would only go Yugo as an absolute LAST OPTION. I'm not completely sure about their AK's, but their SKS's are the ONLY country of manufacture that didn't chrome line the barrel. yugo SKS's are also long and heavy. I'd get a Chinese.

 

2. The full capacity magazines for the S-308 fit right in, no modification required. Now, if you are talking 7.62x39, then yes, the mag catch must be filed down. I'm not sure which one you are talking about here. Also, to be legal in modding a x39 (or .223) saiga to take full capacity magazines, you pretty much have to do the pistol grip conversion.

 

3. I do not know how accuracy compares.

[Vermiform 26]

Saiga is the way to go.

 

You are getting a brand spanking new rifle made in Russia. If installing a bullet guide and filing down the mag catch doesn't frighten you (and there is no reason it should) then there is no reason not to buy one.

 

+1 about what BlenderWizard said. If you want to lawfully use high caps in it, the easiest way is to go ahead and return it to its pistol grip config by moving the FCG back where it goes and replacing it with a US made version.

[Tigerclaw_x 1]

Hello, guys.

Sorry, I do not wish to offend anyone, but those were not the answers for the questions I asked.

I am pretty familiary with an accuracy of Saiga 308 vs Vepr 308. But not of Saiga vs SKS or Saiga vs M70 AK. That.s what I need the help with.

Also, I need to see if Saiga Barrel 20.5 is sold separately and if it can be installed on Yugo M70 (which has a stronger receiver).

And also, I need to know the way to mod VEPR to take high cap AK47 Mags.

 

Thank you

[442 kid 0]

of course the yugo might have a slight edge in accuracy w/ 1.5 mm rec. but what are you looking for? yes the vepr's are supposed to be the best & most accurate ak/s but try to buy one reasonably now. if you want a russian ak thats affordable w/1.5 mm rec. consider building one like i am .

global trades 1.6mm rec. about 100.00 got mine for free

saiga front end purchased from a board member 95.00

usa pg,bulgy rr trunnion & slr 105 top cover 30.00

 

still need about 100.00 in parts to finish this project plus some machining is required on the fr & rr trunnions & the ejecter. but for a little more than a romy G build i'll have the perfect heavy duty shtf ak w/chrome lined barrel thats mostly russian

[Tigerclaw_x 1]

of course the yugo might have a slight edge in accuracy w/ 1.5 mm rec. but what are you looking for? yes the vepr's are supposed to be the best & most accurate ak/s but try to buy one reasonably now. if you want a russian ak thats affordable w/1.5 mm rec. consider building one like i am .

global trades 1.6mm rec. about 100.00 got mine for free

saiga front end purchased from a board member 95.00

usa pg,bulgy rr trunnion & slr 105 top cover 30.00

 

still need about 100.00 in parts to finish this project plus some machining is required on the fr & rr trunnions & the ejecter. but for a little more than a romy G build i'll have the perfect heavy duty shtf ak w/chrome lined barrel thats mostly russian

 

I am looking for the most accurate rifle in 7.62x39 that I can get. With 20.5 inch barrel which can take high cap mags. Pretty much what you are getting. THe problem is that I am no gunsmith, but would love any and all help in building such rifle. What equipment do you need to build the rifle. Where can you get a Saiga front end and fr/rr trunnions and ejector? I would love to build such rifle. The question is. How and where to get the parts?

 

Thank you in advance

[BattleRifleG3 16]

1) How does a 20.5 barrel 7.62x39 saiga compares in accuracy to SKS.

2) How does a 20.5 barrel 7.62x39 saiga compares in accuracy to Yugo M70 AK (16inch barrel).

3) Is it possible to install a 20.5 inch Saiga Barrel on Yugo M70?

4) How do you mod Vepr to take AK mags? (Yes, I know I will need to add 5 US made parts: flashhider, Stock, Wooden furniture, Trigger group)

 

1.) Depends on the SKS. Make, model, whatever, they're all different because they all have different stories behind them, being mostly surplus.

2.) Depends on the barrel condition of the Yugo M70 and how well it was built.

3.) It is easier to install a new US made Yugo M70 barrel on a Yugo M70. You won't find many Saiga X39 barrels laying around.

4.) Usually by filing the magazine well and/or the magazine catch and/or installing a feed ramp in the front trunion. I really don't know that much about VEPRs though, at least in that regard.

 

Sometimes you don't get the answers you're looking for because your questions have certain assumptions that aren't entirely correct, particularly that you're looking to compare the accuracy of models whose accuracy is inconsistent.

 

Your most consistent accuracy will come from a new condition factory built gun. That = Saiga or unused SKS.

Your second most consistent accuracy will come from other standardized guns, even if used, as long as quality is consistently good. That = SKS.

You can get good accuracy from a customized build. That does not necessarily mean that you will get it, only that you might.

 

Everyone wants accuracy, and everyone new to a subject is looking for the best there is for his money. Often unorthodox ideas are suggested that are not cost or work effective. Unorthodox builds should be done by those who firmly know the merits of each part and know firmly what they want. Trust me, you do not want to rebarrel an AK based firearm lightly.

 

Accuracy is quantifiable though, and what you need to do is identify what level of accuracy you believe is adequate to your needs and abilities. Not everyone is capable of making the most of the most accurate rifles. And not every make and model of rifle has consistent accuracy.

 

My suggestions:

If you want an underfolder, get an M70 because they are already made that way.

A longer barrel gives slightly improved ballistics and a longer site radius, meaning you are likely to get better accuracy using open sites. If this is what you want, go with a 20" barreled Saiga or an SKS.

If you want a smooth working, machined receiver rifle with a classic profile and don't mind a fixed magazine, an SKS is what you want for sure.

 

If you are a newbie to rifles, my suggestion is to get an SKS for $150-200, leave it in its original condition, and shoot it enough to understand your abilities. Then consider getting a more expensive rifle once you have a better idea what your preferences are. Or get any of your other ideas and learn to appreciate it for what it is. Then, when you have more experience with it, consider modifying it or buying others. I wouldn't suggest a VEPR for a newbie, but a Saiga X39 of either barrel length would be a fair buy. Figure though you can always shorten a long barreled version - can't really lengthen a short barreled one.

[BattleRifleG3 16]

I am looking for the most accurate rifle in 7.62x39 that I can get. With 20.5 inch barrel which can take high cap mags.

 

That would be the AR-15. Yes it is chambered for X39, requiring different magazines. But you probably want something AK or SKS based, right? The most accurate with that barrel length would be an Arsenal RPK on a milled receiver. Expect to pay over a grand. You do not want to use hi-caps in an SKS, unless it was originally made to take AK mags. You can get them in 20" barreled versions, but expect to pay a bit. Even then, reliability is still better in an AK. For SKS reliability, keep the original mag.

 

THe problem is that I am no gunsmith, but would love any and all help in building such rifle. What equipment do you need to build the rifle. Where can you get a Saiga front end and fr/rr trunnions and ejector? I would love to build such rifle. The question is. How and where to get the parts?

 

You are not ready to build an AK if you do not have experience owning, stripping, non-critically modifying, and other AK related knowledge beforehand. What equipment do you need? Power tools, and if you plan on rebarreling or using a different bolt, a 12 ton shop press. And you need to use a lot of care. Some slips of the hand are no big deal, others will cost you huge chunks of the project, and you need to know which ones are which before building a firearm.

 

For an entry level hi-cap X39 that will give excellent accuracy for that round, a Saiga X39 would be the way to go. After you have examined and understand it, and study the tutorial linked in the FAQ section, you can do the P-grip conversion. It's very forgiving of inexperience as long as you remove and protect critical components.

 

Then you will have a full length X39 rifle. If you then want something Yugo based, you can consider building a Tabuk clone using M70 parst and a new US made barrel. But maybe you'll want a carbine to complement your rifle. You could build any variety of AKs or modify a Saiga. But do that AFTER getting serious exposure to the AK system.

 

If you want a rifle you can build without prior experience with the model, you need an AR-15. AKs are a level or two up.

[Hunter78 1]

Best advice is to shoot or at least handle each of the firearms your talking about.

Yugo M70: I thought I wanted an underfolder until I shot one. Didn't care at all for the feel. I think they look cool but thats it.

Now sks, love them I have 8 probably more accurate then an ak if its got a good barrel. If you want a high capacity consider an sks-m = best of both worlds.

vepr-does cost justify it? for me no

Saiga-true russian ak- You get satisfaction turning it into your idea of a dream ak. Doesn't take alot of skills or tools either.

IF accuracy is your number one priority, get a bolt action. Ak's and SKS will do well enough but reliability and coolness factor is where they really shine along with high capacity in the AKs (or sks-m).

[BattleRifleG3 16]

If you want top accuracy and are willing to go with a 16" barrel, a milled SLR modded to take hi-caps is the best deal out there, even though no longer produced. Perhaps comprable prices and quality would be had with a professionally built threaded barreled model on a Firing Line receiver. You'll probably pay a fair majority of a grand on that.

[Tigerclaw_x 1]

If you want top accuracy and are willing to go with a 16" barrel, a milled SLR modded to take hi-caps is the best deal out there, even though no longer produced. Perhaps comprable prices and quality would be had with a professionally built threaded barreled model on a Firing Line receiver. You'll probably pay a fair majority of a grand on that.

 

 

Hi. Thank you for your advice. I am well aware of high quality of SLR rifles, and their cost. If I wanted to spend $1000, I would have gotten myself a PTR-91, a G3 clone. Reliable, strong, sturdy as hell. Fine German engineering

it don't get much better then Gewher Drai - the best battle rifle ever.

However, I am looking to spend around $500 or less. THE LESS - THE BETTER. The idea is to get the most accurate high capacity 7.62x39 for the LEAST money. In this neighbourhood I have few options: Saiga (I would get a 20.5 inch barrel, for better ballistics), SKS (which has a 20.5 inch barrel and machined receiver), Global Traders AK which has Chrome Lined barrel and 1.6mm receiver (though I dont know is it an RPK style reinforced, or just a thicker waller receiver), or M70 Yugo. Which does NOT have a chromed barrel, but DOES have a 1.6mm receiver, which is an RPK style reinforced one.

I know that in 308, SAIGA has a 50% larger groups then Vepr. That can be attributed to a fact that Saiga itself is lighter and has a thinner receiver then Vepr. How does SAIGA compares in 7.62x39 to SKS and various AKs? THats my main question.

And no, I am not interested in AR15. I hate how it feels in my hands and I hate the way its' sight is made (love AK style site much better)

And yes, I fired AK when I was a kadet in Kiev All-Arms Military College back in 1990. (Kievskoe Obshevoiskovoe Voennoe Uchilishe). I still can field strip AKM, RPK with my eyes blindfolded.

However, we have not spent much time gunsmithing. Mostly cleaning and dissasembling it. Shot it like 2-3 times a month. Frankly, we spent more time digging tranches and running obstacle courses and just taking science classes then we did shooting it.

[BattleRifleG3 16]

Well now you've given some more key criteria - your price range.

 

From this point it's simple. If you want hi-cap mags and best accuracy, get a Saiga X39. 20" barrel if it's your preference. Probably about $300 after fees. Add about $100 and your labor to do the P-grip conversion and mod for hi-cap mags. Then you can buy optics, other accessories, and ammo.

 

Any dimensional/structural advantages of the thicker receiver will be most likely offset by the current manufacturing quality of the Saiga vs the used military condition of most other models.

 

I have to say that I think you're thinking too hard about a few details of the rifle and not enough about how all the details fit together. A Saiga X39 will cover your bases pretty darned well, and if you practice adequately with it you will be better off than if you spent your time and money trying to custom build your first AK.