A question for you reloaders

[Big-V316 0]

I am new to reloading and as I have started prepping my cases I noticed that allot of them needed to be trimmed. When I checked the cases before resizing they were fine. Do I have the resizer set up wrong? I had the impression that only some cases need to be trimmed after resizing. Just to let you know all the brass is winchester brass from the peoples republic of walmart. I have begun trimming some of the cases back to the correct length but I just wanted to be sure I wasn't doing something wrong.

Thanks in advance.

[longhunter-CO 0]

Check your length after resizing and then trim any that need trimming. "Cases grow in length as they are fired and resized" -Speer reloading manual.

 

I usually set my trimmer up for the min length and trim all so that my cases are all uniform. Others that I know measure and only trim those that have exceeded max.

[ironhead7544 35]

Cases will grow when you fire them. Some more than others, even from the same box. Its normal. I expect cases to come out as much as .005 inch longer after sizing. Lighter loads will not stretch as much. RCBS has a die they call the "X". It will minimize case stretch. I havent tried it yet. I check all case lengths after resizing with rifle cases. Pistol loads arent as bad except for the 357 with heavy loads, in my experience. Ill try to help with any reloading questions.

[Big-V316 0]

Thank for the help guys. Should I trim all of my cases or only the ones over max?

[ironhead7544 35]

If you are not putting a crimp on them then you can just trim the over max ones. A crimp on rifle rounds needs the same lenght for best results.

Edited June 25, 2007 by ironhead7544

[buckandaquarterquarterstaff 5]

The first firing will stretch the brass more than others in my experience. Resizing makes the stretching evident as the cases are worked back from chamber diameter to the die diameter, and some stretch can be more apparent after working the brass. You are correct to trim after resizing. Trim only those that exceed the trim to length to get max life from your cases. Never use a case that was trimmed three or more times in their lifetime (stretching the brass makes it thinner, and trimming it off means less brass thickness to hold the charge inside the chamber). Be wary of used brass, as you don't want to start with someone's brass that's been through the mill umpteen times (but I digress).

 

Keep track of those that were trimmed after firings from those that weren't and then load those separately. Sometimes this can lead to lots of 10 or less pieces of brass, but you will be sure that they are not overstressed and too thin (still inspect every time though). Generally, I trim twice then keep the brass loaded as SHTF rounds once the second trim is completed. If I happen to shoot a whole batch of SHTF rounds then I just leave them lay at the range.

 

It sounds a bit over the top, but keep a notebook of your rounds and use those cheap 50 round plastic ammo boxes to keep your cases separated. Some cases can last up to 10 firings, whereas others look like crap after 3 firings. Keeping them in separate lots will help you separate the wheat from the chaff and you will learn what types of brass work best in your press and with your processes. For example if you find that winchester brass lasts 5 rounds, and remmy lasts 10 then you will know what's a better deal for a buck more.

 

You can get pretty put off by having to inspect brass each time, as volume and cheap is what everyone wants through their reloading investment. A solution is to acquire a seasons worth of brass then do your inspection and trimming over the winter, then you will have (depending on if you live in an icebox or not) the luxury of time to inspect and reload at your leisure. Military brass lasts a long time (it's thicker to begin with), and you can get 1000 rounds for a couple hundered bucks. It works a lot harder in the press however, so all things have tradeoffs...

[Big-V316 0]

The first firing will stretch the brass more than others in my experience. Resizing makes the stretching evident as the cases are worked back from chamber diameter to the die diameter, and some stretch can be more apparent after working the brass. You are correct to trim after resizing. Trim only those that exceed the trim to length to get max life from your cases. Never use a case that was trimmed three or more times in their lifetime (stretching the brass makes it thinner, and trimming it off means less brass thickness to hold the charge inside the chamber). Be wary of used brass, as you don't want to start with someone's brass that's been through the mill umpteen times (but I digress).

 

Keep track of those that were trimmed after firings from those that weren't and then load those separately. Sometimes this can lead to lots of 10 or less pieces of brass, but you will be sure that they are not overstressed and too thin (still inspect every time though). Generally, I trim twice then keep the brass loaded as SHTF rounds once the second trim is completed. If I happen to shoot a whole batch of SHTF rounds then I just leave them lay at the range.

 

It sounds a bit over the top, but keep a notebook of your rounds and use those cheap 50 round plastic ammo boxes to keep your cases separated. Some cases can last up to 10 firings, whereas others look like crap after 3 firings. Keeping them in separate lots will help you separate the wheat from the chaff and you will learn what types of brass work best in your press and with your processes. For example if you find that winchester brass lasts 5 rounds, and remmy lasts 10 then you will know what's a better deal for a buck more.

 

You can get pretty put off by having to inspect brass each time, as volume and cheap is what everyone wants through their reloading investment. A solution is to acquire a seasons worth of brass then do your inspection and trimming over the winter, then you will have (depending on if you live in an icebox or not) the luxury of time to inspect and reload at your leisure. Military brass lasts a long time (it's thicker to begin with), and you can get 1000 rounds for a couple hundered bucks. It works a lot harder in the press however, so all things have tradeoffs...

 

Thanks for the reply buckandaquarterquarterstaff that one reply gave me most of the information that I needed. I know have my first fifty reloads and am planning to head out to the range on Friday to see what kind of damage I can do. I will let you know how things go.

Thanks again.

Edited June 28, 2007 by Big-V316

[buckandaquarterquarterstaff 5]

I did have one typo in my reply.

 

You should trim only those that exceed the maximum case allowable length, and then trim those that exceed that maximum length down to the trim to length. I had mentioned to trim any that exceed the trim to length, but that's overkill. Generally you can let them stretch in the range between the trim to and max case length without trimming them after each firing. If you choose to crimp the cases, then you should try to batch them in approximately equal case lengths (after resizing). However, that's only if you're after smallest groupings. If you are using an S308, then it probably will make little difference as it's a 2-4 moa gun in most cases anyway and batching probably only gains 1/4 moa at best.

 

Hope that didn't cause you any extra work.

[netpackrat 566]

Another question: Are any of you using a small base sizing die? My manual recommends them for autoloading rifles, but I never read about anybody using them online, and wondered if they are really necessary or even beneficial. Seems like it would work the brass harder.

[ironhead7544 35]

The small base die wont hurt the brass. If you dont have any problems getting the rounds to feed and lock the bolt you are OK with the standard die. Lee says theirs is small enough for autos but I had a problem with a pump gun and had to go to small base. The AK chamber may be made a little larger to allow some clearance. The auto/pump doesnt have the camming action like a bolt gun.

[buckandaquarterquarterstaff 5]

Another question: Are any of you using a small base sizing die? My manual recommends them for autoloading rifles, but I never read about anybody using them online, and wondered if they are really necessary or even beneficial. Seems like it would work the brass harder.

 

One of the really nice things about the S308 is that a small base die isn't needed to get it to cycle. I've resized lots of brass with lee dies and never had an FTF due to sizing of the lower part of the case.

[Big-V316 0]

Sorry for taking so long to get back to you guys. I ran out to the range last Friday and (good new first) I didn't blow myself up. Bad news my groups go bigger. Here is what I loaded. 41gr IMR-4064, 165gr Speer boat tail and Winchester large rifle primers. All cases were trimmed using a lee case trimmer and case length gauge. By the way I loaded these into my bolt action a Savage 110fp and they gave the same results. Any advice you guys have would be great. Especially if you can share any good loads and data for s308.

 

Thanks again

Big-V

[ironhead7544 35]

For a target load any of the match 168 gr bullets and Reloader 15 work well in my 308-1 and Ruger bolt gun. I heard the Army is using Reloader 15 for their sniper loads. Many people have reported better groups w1th 150 gr bullets so you might try those. The 308-1 twist might be better suited for the lighter bullets.

[buckandaquarterquarterstaff 5]

Sorry for taking so long to get back to you guys. I ran out to the range last Friday and (good new first) I didn't blow myself up. Bad news my groups go bigger. Here is what I loaded. 41gr IMR-4064, 165gr Speer boat tail and Winchester large rifle primers. All cases were trimmed using a lee case trimmer and case length gauge. By the way I loaded these into my bolt action a Savage 110fp and they gave the same results. Any advice you guys have would be great. Especially if you can share any good loads and data for s308.

 

Thanks again

Big-V

 

I've had good luck with just under 41 grains of accurate arms 2460 with a hornady 165 boat tail soft point. Gets into the 2 inch range on a cold bbl, and that bullet is great on deer. This stuff is cheaper than what you've been using, so you might want to pick up a pound and give it a whirl. You might want to work up to 41 grains off of 38.5, since the 41 load is just a bit hefty for the saiga, but still works well.

 

Another powder that I've been getting the groups down with is ramshot tac. I picked up 16lbs of it on sale and it's great stuff in terms of velocity with no signs of excessive pressure. If I find the magic combo there, I'll let everyone know.

 

I haven't had much luck with IMR powder as I use a Lee auto disc as a meter and I find that ball powders meter more consistently than a corse extruded powder. Before you run out and get some more powder, try upping it a grain or two (under max loads). The 41 grains you're using now is a half grain below IMR's starting load for a 168 bullet in a 308 case. Sometimes you need to up the pressure just a bit, and you get in to a sweet spot for that particular load.

 

I believe the saiga is a 1 in 12 twist rate so a 168 should be the perfect weight. However, as some have mentioned don't be afraid to try the 150's. Given the 168 is the right theoretical weight for a 1 in 12 twist, you can generally state that lower weight bullets will still work (and may work better), but heavier ones may not stabilize after a certain weight is reached.

 

There's a zillion combinations to try, and that's part of the fun.

 

Oh, what's the bbl length on your gun? You might be under doing it with the heavy bullet and light charge, since most load data is based off a 24 in bbl. I have good luck with glorified varmint loads in my 16's, but my 21 likes a stout deer load, and does better with slower powders than my 16 does.

Edited July 6, 2007 by buckandaquarterquarterstaff

[Big-V316 0]

Sorry for taking so long to get back to you guys. I ran out to the range last Friday and (good new first) I didn't blow myself up. Bad news my groups go bigger. Here is what I loaded. 41gr IMR-4064, 165gr Speer boat tail and Winchester large rifle primers. All cases were trimmed using a lee case trimmer and case length gauge. By the way I loaded these into my bolt action a Savage 110fp and they gave the same results. Any advice you guys have would be great. Especially if you can share any good loads and data for s308.

 

Thanks again

Big-V

 

I've had good luck with just under 41 grains of accurate arms 2460 with a hornady 165 boat tail soft point. Gets into the 2 inch range on a cold bbl, and that bullet is great on deer. This stuff is cheaper than what you've been using, so you might want to pick up a pound and give it a whirl. You might want to work up to 41 grains off of 38.5, since the 41 load is just a bit hefty for the saiga, but still works well.

 

Another powder that I've been getting the groups down with is ramshot tac. I picked up 16lbs of it on sale and it's great stuff in terms of velocity with no signs of excessive pressure. If I find the magic combo there, I'll let everyone know.

 

I haven't had much luck with IMR powder as I use a Lee auto disc as a meter and I find that ball powders meter more consistently than a corse extruded powder. Before you run out and get some more powder, try upping it a grain or two (under max loads). The 41 grains you're using now is a half grain below IMR's starting load for a 168 bullet in a 308 case. Sometimes you need to up the pressure just a bit, and you get in to a sweet spot for that particular load.

 

I believe the saiga is a 1 in 12 twist rate so a 168 should be the perfect weight. However, as some have mentioned don't be afraid to try the 150's. Given the 168 is the right theoretical weight for a 1 in 12 twist, you can generally state that lower weight bullets will still work (and may work better), but heavier ones may not stabilize after a certain weight is reached.

 

There's a zillion combinations to try, and that's part of the fun.

 

Oh, what's the bbl length on your gun? You might be under doing it with the heavy bullet and light charge, since most load data is based off a 24 in bbl. I have good luck with glorified varmint loads in my 16's, but my 21 likes a stout deer load, and does better with slower powders than my 16 does.

 

Thanks again for helping me along. The Speer reloading manual I have shows 41gr as the lightest load for the IMR4064 with a 165gr bullet. I have worked up 4 more loadings 42gr, 43gr, 44gr and 44.5. Max according to Speer is 45gr. I am only going to run the 42 grain loads in my Saiga for now and see what they do. I will run the rest in my bolt gun. I am planning on hitting the range in the morning so I will let you know how things went from there.

 

Thanks again

[Big-V316 0]

Hey guys

 

I went out to the range on Friday and here is how things ended up. First I forgot the 42gr rounds that I was going to test out in the Saiga but that ended up being ok. I fired another 40 rounds of 41gr reloads through the Saiga and it seems that the groups are getting smaller. I don't think it has anything to do with the reloads as much as it does with the rifle just settling in. I haven't fired 200 rounds through it yet. I also tried some of the 42gr up to 44.5gr reloads in my bolt rifle and was not impressed. I think I will take your advice and look at changing powder. I might try the accurate next time for the 308 and see if I can use the pound of IMR that I have left for my 45 acp.

Anyhow thanks for the help