topmaul 42 Posted October 27, 2004 Report Share Posted October 27, 2004 Two weeks ago my son Full Choke, and I pertisipated in a tactical match our scores were less than steller, a Saiga shooter did come in second place. I hope to be more competitive next time. So if any one has some tips I'm all ears. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mickporno 0 Posted October 27, 2004 Report Share Posted October 27, 2004 first of all if you can do it, load your mags from an open bolt, i am a lefty and it seems to be easier for me than most righty's that i've seen try it but it can be done, just ask kenneth. he was also at the match 2 weeks ago. i don't have any device for bolt hold open i just pull it back with my left thumb while holding the receiver with my other fingers and rock the mag in with my right hand...makes for fast reloading as you can let go of the bolt as soon as the mags seats...with a little practice you can do some really fast reloads. also think ahead as you move thru the stages, if you watched me shoot at ncrr you saw that a few times i dropped a mag as i was reloading, that still had a few rounds in it...for example if i'm coming up to the flipper thing that you have to spin i want to be sure i have a full mag cuz running dry in the middle of that would be really bad....and we can't just shove a few rounds in or top off on the way over like the tube fed guys can, so think ahead to what you're getting ready to do and if you can't afford to run dry in the middle of something then reload and drop that mag with only 2 or 3 rounds in it....i'm assuming all this while using 9 rounds in my mags...i saw you only had 5 rounders but i know you have a few 8's on the way...use the 5's to your advantage too if you're limited on the 8's...think thru the stage first and know where you wanna use the 5's or the 8's....i'm sure you also noticed that alot of the steel i was shooting just wouldn't go down even though i was nailing the hell out of it....i attribute that to the fact that i recently cut over 4" off of my barrel and lost most of my choke which in turn made me lose alot of the punch i used to have....i may have to start shooting hi-power shells or maybe have my barrel threaded for choke tubes...in any case it's taking some getting used to with less choke and less punch. i don't use my 5 rounders much but i do carry a few and they do come in handy in some stages. use them to your advantage, game the stage, think it thru....practice your reloads from an open bolt like i do it and see if it helps you load faster.....kenneth is a righty and i've watched him load like i do and it's fast...you just have to practice it. daniel whipped our butts...he is a prodigy, i was 2nd overall but i was by no means right behind him but i think if i hadn't had the trouble with the steel and if i had thought thru the car stage a little better i could have shaved off alot of time and maybe either beat him or at least closed the gap considerably...naw scratch that, beating daniel is a pipe dream...that boy is good!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
topmaul 42 Posted October 27, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 27, 2004 To say that I was unhappy with my showing at the NCRR is not exactly true, It was my first time out. I see lots of areas to improve, about all I used my Saiga for up till now was turkey shoots which I won my share. I plan to check the pattern at various distances on Thursday. I need to know my pattern which I really don't at the moment. Of course I need to aquire and fire faster. Thinking is a big part and I really did not do much of that. My bolt lock comes in handy and it's easy to use (cut out on the safety latch which holds the bolt back) once I got the hang of it. I just have tons of money to spend and practicing to do. I do not plan to cut back my barrel. Tactical match is a whole new ball game. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted October 27, 2004 Report Share Posted October 27, 2004 I think im going to have to enter these "matches" and meet this "daniel". Ive been action shooting since I was 10, but it was running after rabbits and such, not static 3 foot targets..... let me ask you competition guys something......can i bump fire? if i have a real technique, would i have to take a penalty for doing it assuming i hit everything? do i need to show a firearm's saftey course before entering 3 gun? whats the deal, i want to kick some butt this coming year.....if yer up for it these tac. matches sound like my ball of wax....... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chrisva 0 Posted October 27, 2004 Report Share Posted October 27, 2004 My WebpageBvamp, I've been to both uspsa 3gun and "tactical" matches. When it comes to that game you really have to be strong in all 3 guns most of the matches that I've been to seems like shootgun reloading contest. Just really work your reloads with all the guns,moving from point to point in the stage and target to target transitions. Also check out brian Enos forums lots of top notch shooters in general. good luck Quote Link to post Share on other sites
fullchoke 0 Posted October 28, 2004 Report Share Posted October 28, 2004 The Saiga is great for tactical matches but you really have to be on the move aquire and fire. You need plenty of mags I have seven five rounders and to eights on the way. To be honest I think most Saiga shooters would love the matches so find a local gun club and lets see you out there. The look on the faces of people who have never seen a Saiga is priceless. I say just think of an AK 47 an put a 12 ga barrel on it and there you go. If you have a Saiga you might as well get into a match and have some fun. I encourage all of you to give it a try. Go to the IDPA website and find a local match you'll love it. See you at the next match. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kmoore 3 Posted October 28, 2004 Report Share Posted October 28, 2004 I used to load weak hand. I ended up blowing so many of those that I decided to go to the strong hand load. I rarely bobble a reload, and never in a major way that I sometimes did with weak hand loading. So I set up with mags on the right hand side. I toyed with loading mags to 8 or 9 rounds, depending on what the stage dictates. I think there are several advantages to mixed loading. Idea would be that sometimes using 9 rounds gives more insurance and may save a reload. IE, a 18 round stage (or a 17 round if you think you might miss). Loading on a empty chamber is preferred by a lot of folks, so that's where I would load to 8 rounds. But there are a couple of problems (at least for me). Easier to bobble a load when on a closed bolt. Having mixed loads is one more thing to keep track of. So I decided to standardize on 9 round loads, and keep everything the same. It's still important to count, as no sense on wasting a half second to index to a new target and click. Agree with Porno man (Joe) with the topping off. I haven't worked on loading on the move, but that would be a nice skill. I toyed with clamping mags together, but I don't hand the mags well so I've decided not to (Not to bad with the mags on the belt anyway. I shoot with front hand on the mag, thumb on the release. Time to reload I dump the mag on my way down to my belt. I'm debating on putting in screw chokes, vs using shot shells with spreaders (seems like I always want wide open for the close clays and airborne, and very tight for the buckshot, steel and most other targets). As I reload, I may load seperate shells for the different apps. This would allow me to have different shot patterns within one string. (screw chokes means setting gun up one way for each stage). My one concern with this plan is the slugs. I don't think they are quite as accurate with a full choke. HTH, YMMV, IMO, etc etc etc. There's a guy (Corriea (sp?)) on thehighroad that competes quite successfully with a Saiga. We need to get him to share his tips here too .... Wakal, I know you are an experieced competitor, just starting to work with the saiga. Any juicy tidbits? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
topmaul 42 Posted October 29, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 29, 2004 Mick, I had a thought what I'm going to do next time is make my second to last shot a different collor (brand) say I'm shooting those red walmart shells then a yellow one pops out that tells me that it's time to switch mags. I'm still going to count shots I want to load from the closed bold position I find that a thin film of grease on the bottom of the bolt makes incerting the mag much easter. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
topmaul 42 Posted November 1, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 1, 2004 (edited) There will be a tactical match on 13 Nov. at the Norfolk County Rifle Rang http://ncrr.net/ I hope to see plenty of Saigas there. They put on a good time. If your going to attend visit the website and read the special rules due to the club location only 7 1/2 low brass or smaller is to be used I would bring atleast 100 rds. Click on IDPA then tactical shotgun for details Edited November 1, 2004 by topmaul Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mickporno 0 Posted November 1, 2004 Report Share Posted November 1, 2004 Mick, I had a thought what I'm going to do next time is make my second to last shot a different collor (brand) say I'm shooting those red walmart shells then a yellow one pops out that tells me that it's time to switch mags. I'm still going to count shots I want to load from the closed bold position I find that a thin film of grease on the bottom of the bolt makes incerting the mag much easter. my problem with this would be that i would never see the different color shell....i just try to count as i go and if i lose count and it goes "CLICK" then i just reload as fast as i can and hope to still be faster than the tube fed guys....i load 9 in my 8 round mags...no amount of oil on the bottom of the bolt is gonna help me there.....it's either open bolt or forget it.... i think i need to try shooting some high brass loads next time at ncrr....those steel can be hard to knock down with my choke....combined with light field loads....now i know why one of the guys shooting a saiga at the recon match in NC used buckshot on everything....makes sense now!!! 22" full choke barrel cut to 18.5" gives me a .720 choke, comes out to improved cylinder....shoots slugs and buckshot real good though.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
topmaul 42 Posted November 3, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 3, 2004 Mick, NCRR limits the shot you can use at there events due the the highway behind them I think the low brass 71/2 is about the max. But there are other places to shoot. Looks like I'm going to trick out my saiga to get around that eight round rules and regulations. I would not want to break the law. So I'll be using five rd mags at the next match even though I should have my 8 rd mags by then. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mickporno 0 Posted November 4, 2004 Report Share Posted November 4, 2004 i knew there was a 7 1/2 size shot limit but i didn't know you had to use low brass shells.....hmmmm....ok, well maybe i just need to make sure the gun is squeaky clean and be ready to manually feed a few shells if they don't feed themselves....i think i had 2 failure to feed problems last time....but you know...the weekend before that match i shot a match at black creek with the same shells and had no feed problems at all....yeah making sure it's clean is going to be my next attempt at finding a solution to this.... go ahead and use the 8 round mags.....i used them at a NC match prior to doing the conversion....it's all water under the bridge now but .....oh well... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kmoore 3 Posted November 4, 2004 Report Share Posted November 4, 2004 Are you sure low brass is mandated? Brass means nothing (Active shells don't use any brass!) but usually denotes a heavier / hunting load. Hunters get in the mindset that it must be high brass cuz it's been that way for a long time. My point is this, I can reload any low brass shell to any of the hunting loads typically found in the high brass factory loads. The question is there a load/velocity component that goes along with the restriction? My guess is no, as they have taken theoretical limits as to how far the 7.5's can fly so size alone is all that they care about. Course that and ~3 bucks can get you a cup of coffee. Might want to ask Klaus or Bob. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mickporno 0 Posted November 4, 2004 Report Share Posted November 4, 2004 Are you sure low brass is mandated? Brass means nothing (Active shells don't use any brass!) but usually denotes a heavier / hunting load. Hunters get in the mindset that it must be high brass cuz it's been that way for a long time. My point is this, I can reload any low brass shell to any of the hunting loads typically found in the high brass factory loads. The question is there a load/velocity component that goes along with the restriction? My guess is no, as they have taken theoretical limits as to how far the 7.5's can fly so size alone is all that they care about. Course that and ~3 bucks can get you a cup of coffee. Might want to ask Klaus or Bob. ok kenny you're splitting hairs again.....always gotta be the analytical one don't you?? but you're prolly right i don't think they mandate the load just the shot size.....load me up some magnum loads in some field load cases and let me try it out.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kmoore 3 Posted November 4, 2004 Report Share Posted November 4, 2004 Hmmmmm, After the "kenny" comment I think I have the right load for you .... Howbout a half ounce of shot and 200 grains of reddot. You'll be glad you have your buffer in place ... I'll load a few with flour as a payload. Put them in the bottom of the mag, then you'll know when to reload Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mickporno 0 Posted November 5, 2004 Report Share Posted November 5, 2004 Hmmmmm, After the "kenny" comment I think I have the right load for you .... Howbout a half ounce of shot and 200 grains of reddot. You'll be glad you have your buffer in place ... I'll load a few with flour as a payload. Put them in the bottom of the mag, then you'll know when to reload oh my god....mick killed kenny!!!.....that bastard!!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted November 5, 2004 Report Share Posted November 5, 2004 (edited) actually, using a little bit of flour as a buffer for a buckshot or birdshot load isnt a bad idea. not sure if its a good idea for slugs, as a flour load produces extra flame, if i recall from my more "experimental" years as a kid. maybe a single small roman candle type of pellet in the powder charge might work as well, although im not sure what effect it would have on the powder load. I dont think that that is a bad idea at all.... as for your high and low brass deals.......I believe it made a difference in the old paper/blackpowder loadings how much brass was on the shell vs powder charge. Now, it matters about NIL. I look at it as a quick reference as to what reload im grabbing, is about all. Edited November 5, 2004 by Bvamp Quote Link to post Share on other sites
topmaul 42 Posted November 6, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 6, 2004 If anyone knows of a tactical match coming up please let us know I hope we can get more Sagia onwners out there. It's a great opertunity to meet each other face to face. Please put down the time and place of the event so we can show up. It would be great to meet ya'll Quote Link to post Share on other sites
topmaul 42 Posted November 9, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 9, 2004 (edited) Norfolk County Rifle Range is having a tactical shotgun event on Saturday 13, November I'll be there. www.ncrr.net go to IDPA and find Tactical shotgun Edited November 9, 2004 by topmaul Quote Link to post Share on other sites
topmaul 42 Posted December 3, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 3, 2004 3 gun match 4 DEC. http://bcidpa.kicks-ass.net/ Machanicsville, VA Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kmoore 3 Posted December 4, 2004 Report Share Posted December 4, 2004 shotgun side match, the week after, same range. Follows the IDPA match in the morning. Guess that makes it a 2-gun match, well, sort of ... John, think about clearing your calendar for this. Side match sometimes seems like a small match, but you'll usually find the round count to approach Norfolks. Often runs 60-90 rounds. Mostly clay pigeons, but I think they have a texas star, and the have shot some steel too. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
topmaul 42 Posted December 5, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 5, 2004 K, Mick, Eric and I had a great time yesterday, it, great to see Saiga pros like you two in action. Mick thanks for the use of your Bushmaster. I really can't see any way I can make it next weekend I'll be in Woodshole, Mass all week working. So I droped off my Saiga at Tom Cole's gun shop he's the guy that made the full auto Siaga anyway he is doing the conversion for me. I hope to have it done when I get back. Please let me know when the next mach will be. We don't mind the drive. And thanks once more. It was great. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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