Use Cetme Mag to build a high Cap Saiga Mag ?

[bluejack 0]

Hey guy, I just like to know if is good idea use Cetme Mag to build a high cap Saiga 12 Mag, Cetme mag are cheap the dirts at $1.99 each, 12 Ga fits very well inside Cetme, what you guys think ????????

 

 

 

 

[Oldwheat 0]

..How many shells can you squeeze in there.....Look's like there may be some potential here................................

[Tokageko 8]

Though I don't have a saiga 12, I had thought of the same thing. I think the only real concern would be how the magazine attaches to the gun. I also don't know about the size/shape of the magazine well, so that has to be taken into consideration also.

 

In addition, while I was at it, I tried 20 gauge shells in an M14 magazine; I think it held six or seven. The good thing about the cetme magazines is that you can get 30 round versions, which would obviously increase your capacity. I'm interested to hear how this turns out. Keep us posted on how it works. Good luck!

[use2b 0]

Love the new ideas , good work!

Edited December 25, 2004 by use2b

[Oldwheat 0]

...It probly would require an add-on mag well set-up...Not a bad idea in any case..Also, would no doubt need a new flat follower for the CETME mag......

BTW; Where can those $1.99 mags be obtained??..................

[TonyRumore 1,332]

It's not even close. The Saiga mag tilts way forward like a 10mm MP5 mag in order to position the shell at an upward attack angle. The front catch on the G3 mag would need to be about 3/4" of an inch lower and the whole front end would need to be cut way down. It is possible to get it to work, but it is nowhere near as easy as the pics imply. The Saiga can feed rounds fine if they go high out of the mag, since there is a barrel hood extension on the top of the barrel similar to a Coonan .357 Mag barrel. The Saiga does not feed well at all with a low feed position out of the magazine.

[Oldwheat 0]

.....I repeat , who has CETME mags for 1.99?? .....Hell, they would be worth that for springs alone......................

[JBONE 0]

Cheaper than Dirt has them for $1.97. aluminum excellent condition. I just bought 5.

 

JBONE

[bluejack 0]

Also Inter Ordnance has then too, I just get a 10 Pk package for $19.95, look good working condition , I thought at that price what not giving a try, just few hours in the shop and $2

[Oldwheat 0]

....Found 'em & ordered some.....I'm attempting to design a mag well adapter that hopefully will make these function in a Saiga...................

Edited December 27, 2004 by Oldwheat

[mys220 0]

In light of a so far fruitless search for 8 round mags, I really hope you succeed. The follower sounds like the key here. If it works I would be interested in buying your converted follower, or entire magazine.

[bluejack 0]

As for mag follower....... I was think, if you open the mag, can we use the botton part of mags and reseve use as follower ???

 

k, here is how it go, you open the mag and you got this

 

 

and you just flip the spring around

 

 

put it back together, and you got a Mag follower

 

[Tokageko 8]

um.... uh....

 

well.....

 

I wouldn't hold my breath on that one. You would definately (as I see it) need another of those plates to go at the bottom of the spring. Otherwise I don't want to think of how many ways that could go wrong...

 

Either way, try it, by all means. I'm curious to see the results.

 

Just an after-thought: you might want to see if there are any single shot followers for M14 magazines. For some reason I'm thinking there are. Even if they didn't fit as is, I'm sure they could be made to fit (assuming they exist). Well, that should be all for now. Please, keep us posted. Good luck.

[Oldwheat 0]

.....Thanks for posting those pics Bluejack....As I don't have my mags yet (they were oredered yesterday) it give me an ideea of what I'm dealing with here...'Atchilly', making the follower from scratch wouldn't be 'rocket surgery' & might be better functionally.................

[CrazyJ 0]

You guys still have to solve the feed lip/interface with gun problem.

 

In another couple of months I should know whether or not it'd be feasible to make a run of US-made Saiga 12 mags in 5, 8, or both.

[swiftvision 0]

Why not take the origanal follower...add JB WELD or other solid drying epoxys....sand down smooth or at an angle and bam....custom followers which won't deform.

[swiftvision 0]

And why does the follower matter?

 

These are not "stacked" shells....they are just one on top of eachother. If they fit in the mag then why worry about the follower?

 

Is the pic posted of the 20 rounder? Where do you find 30 rounders online? Also how many 12 guage shells fit in the 20?

Edited December 28, 2004 by swiftvision

[Oldwheat 0]

You guys still have to solve the feed lip/interface with gun problem.

 

In another couple of months I should know whether or not it'd be feasible to make a run of US-made Saiga 12 mags in 5, 8, or both.

 

...The feed-lip/shell deformation thing is my real motivation hence the add-on mag-well setup that I'm tinkering with.......As I stated in another post, I would be perfectly happy with 5 0r 6 rounders that loaded rapidly & didn't 'squish' shells into an oval..............

....Perhaps you can see where I'm coming from with this drawing.....

Edited December 28, 2004 by Oldwheat

[CrazyJ 0]

Problem with that design: If a shell slides forwards in the magazine, its front end will get stuck under the feed ramp. If you angle the bottom side of the feed ramp, you create a binding problem.

 

A possible alternative solution is combining the bolt hold-open device with a follower that holds the bolt open on the last shot... but that would require some work on the gun itself to implement, and from what I've seen of the hold-open device, might not be compatible with Saiga-12s converted to AK stocks (trigger group too far forward).

 

You mentioned "loading rapidly." Is there a problem with the current Saiga magazines? I don't have mine yet.

 

I think the reduced magazine spring strength solution is the most viable idea yet.

Edited December 28, 2004 by CrazyJ

[jon elia 0]

cut the ( i dont know what to call them maybe feed lips or something?) but the shell holders on the back to the size of the ones on the saiga mags and then see how the shell "rides" then see what has to be done from there...the pic the guy photoshopped see how its cut back in the pic thats what i'm talking about gring trhose away and then see what it does to the shell it might give the front more lift like the saiga mag

[swiftvision 0]

If your so worried that you need a loaded mag in the well...then get a bolt hold open and keep the bolt back with a fully load mag in.

 

We need more the 5 rounds! Cheaply!

[CrazyJ 0]

What do you define is cheap, keeping in mind that current production American rifle OR pistol magazines usually start at $30 and go up from there?

[swiftvision 0]

Cut here, add a piece of metal here....cut here....and volia!

[swiftvision 0]

What do you define is cheap, keeping in mind that current production American rifle OR pistol magazines usually start at $30 and go up from there?

Well, I get top of the line 30 round M16 mags for $10, I get 17 round glock mags for $10, I can just about anything else for under $30 and all that stuff is in stock.

 

I Can't even get 5 rounders if I wanted them.

[swiftvision 0]

WHERE CAN THESE CEMTE MAGS BE FOUND IN 30 ROUND AND HOW MANY 12 GAUGE SHELLS FIT IN THE 20 ROUNDER?[B]

[swiftvision 0]

Are these the same as HK G1 or G3 mags?

[PM2790 0]

They are HK G3 mags and not CETMEs. The G1 was the FAL.

[CrazyJ 0]

Qualifier on above post: Current production American magazines for guns not currently in widespread use by military or police organizations.

e.g. AR-10, M1A, Kahr, 1911 (the *good* magazines like Wilson Combat), etc.

[swiftvision 0]

So these are pics of G3 20 round mags then?

[McUZI 1]

ALready done some fooling with FAL mags.

I believe it could be made to work, but not without major overhaul of the magazine itself. There can be no simple "adapter" to make .308 mags work in their present state, as the design is totally incorrect for 12 gauge feeding.

 

First, the locking mechanism would have to be matched with the Saiga.

Secondly, the feed lip geometry would have to be milled to match the Saiga.

Lastly- and I can't believe no one's mentioned it yet- the 30 round mag bodies are about the same size as the 5 round magazine.

One would have to chop two, reweld, then fuse the springs to make the magazine hold more rounds than the readily available 5 rounders already do.

Plus, either fabricate or replace the 7.62 NATO follower.

 

Tony mentioned that the feed angle has a pronounced "upward" sweep- I don't see that. I definitley see curvature in the mag body itself, but the feed angle seems to be pretty horizontal to me. I think the curvature in the magazine body has to do with handling of the weapon more than anything... One thing that is noticable with the surrogate .308 magazine and it's "vertical" positioning is it really alters the handling of the weapon- make that magazine body much longer, and the gun is a whole new ballgame, whereas the angled Saiga magazine keeps the bottom profile of the gun much slimmer.

 

Anyway, that's as far as my experimenting and thinking takes me.